In RuneQuest Glorantha does everyone now use Praxian animals instead of horses.

[dvdmacateer]

Core rulebook:-  "Price is based on the cost to purchase the item in any large city in Dragon Pass"
Weapons & Equipment:- "Goods from Prax purchased within Dragon Pass cost 100% of their normal price" 

A horse is 65L (a large horse 75L) a Bison is 30L and High Llama is 55L so why bother with a horse?

[Richard S.]

Probably either as a sign of wealth or because you're a solar cultist and prefer horses since they're solar creatures. Otherwise yeah, a Praxian beast is a lot easier to get since Prax is right there and the nomads regularly trade with people from Dragon Pass. For good horses you have to deal with the Grazelanders, which I imagine is a bit more difficult since horses are the single animal their whole society is built around.

[David Scott]

57 minutes ago, dvdmacateer said:

A horse is 65L (a large horse 75L) a Bison is 30L and High Llama is 55L so why bother with a horse?

It will depend where you are located. My group is in the Hiording lands close to Runegate where they can buy local horses. If you are south, Sun Dome is likely a horse trading place. We have two bison and a horse (and three donkeys) in the group, most of the adventurers walk.

[Malin]

Bison are also not that fast I suppose, but in plentiful supply since Argrath.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Since Ride Bison, Ride Llama, and Ride Horse are all different skills (by RAW, some may be more liberal), it probably depends on your PC's background.  For example, Vasana has Ride Bison.  It may stretch credulity, but it's MGF.

 

[Jeff]

2 hours ago, Malin said:

Bison are also not that fast I suppose, but in plentiful supply since Argrath.

Interestingly, a bison can run faster than a horse and jump higher as well. I suspect horses are faster over long distances, but in the short run, a bison can run down a horse.

[g33k]

53 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Interestingly, a bison can run faster than a horse and jump higher as well. I suspect horses are faster over long distances, but in the short run, a bison can run down a horse.

If one were doing a very cavalry-centric game, it might be worth codifying "endurance" & "footing" of different steeds, under different loads, & crossing different terrain.  It's probably a worthy effort for the JC; not sure it is for Chaosium...?

A cheetah can run down anything(*) on four legs in a matter of moments; but across multiple hours, there are other creatures than can run-down a cheetah!
 

 

(*) so when we say "run down anything on four legs" we gotta acknowledge the limits of terrain, and that climbers like old-world Ibexes & new-world Mountain Goats are pretty much immune to speed-demons like the Cheetah, endurance-runners like the Timber Wolf or the Cape Hunting Dog ...

Edited September 28, 2023 by g33k

[Ian Absentia]

The Ride skill is specific to the type of mount, suggesting that there's a lot to know about handling that kind of animal regardless of availability or price.  And each animal features different advantages and disadvantages; it's probably fair to assume that a horse is the most versatile and manageable outside of niche environments.

!i!

[g33k]

11 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

The Ride skill is specific to the type of mount, suggesting that there's a lot to know about handling that kind of animal regardless of availability or price.  And each animal features different advantages and disadvantages; it's probably fair to assume that a horse is the most versatile and manageable outside of niche environments.

!i!

IMG, Praxians all have a fair bit of ability surrounding all the different "Beat-Rider" mounts.

Eiritha Lore & Waha Lore represent floors of the Ride ability for them all...

But that route is largely closed to non-Praxians; even Sartarite Uralda-worship doesn't give the corresponding lore as per Eiritha worship.

Obviously, there will be some practical limits, with larger Bison & Rhino riders being unable to ride (at least, not far!) on Ostrich & Bolo-lizard mounts.

Edited September 28, 2023 by g33k
typo

[Malin]

I was thinking at the running speed in the Bestiary, though to be fair that running speed was unloaded and depends on the breed. A basic warhorse (Daron) is the same speed as a Bison with a rider unless heavily armored (faster with no rider which is less important), while a Goldeneye is very fast. However, I wonder if there's a difference over longer distances out of combat.

The horse is an endurance runner, just like humans or dogs. I wonder how a bison performs there, it feels like they would be too heavy to sustain fast runs for long. Dunno exactly though. It would be really interesting to know, we've been doing long-distance travel in the wastes for a while with a party on mixed mounts, and I've been trying to figure out what mounts would have the most trouble keeping up...

EDIT: I'm using the same house rule with riding as with languages. Depending on how close the animals are in style, a percentage of the ride skill is carried over.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Malin

[Jeff]

Big picture. Sartar has long, deep ties with Prax. Most Praxian herd animals can be found throughout Dragon Pass (and in much of Peloria for that matter). The bison in particular is often used as a meat animal and as a riding animal by many Sartarites. Like in the RW, bison can breed with domestic cattle, and I suspect many (most?) cattle in Sartar are probably beefalo.

[Malin]

I learned something new today and I love the Beefalo 💚🐄

[Richard S.]

51 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Like in the RW, bison can breed with domestic cattle, and I suspect many (most?) cattle in Sartar are probably beefalo.

Can all Eiritha animals breed with each other, or are cattle and bison unique in that respect?

[Joerg]

11 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

Can all Eiritha animals breed with each other, or are cattle and bison unique in that respect?

We know that all Eiritha humans can breed with each other, but when it comes to her beasts, things require major magic. (As do any human-Morokanth sacred concubinations).

Bison and cattle might be a special case. Possibly tied to the possible shapes of Minotaurs - I don't think there are antelope or high llama variants of these, but there are bison ones and aurochs ones.

What good (or bad) would such Eirithan crossbreeds be?

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Real world bison are poor candidates for domestication.  So there is presumably some Eiritha magic going on there.  We always played Eiritha as extremely rare in Sartar, hence, few tame bison (none in fact).  YGMV.

[dvdmacateer]

20 hours ago, Jeff said:

Interestingly, a bison can run faster than a horse and jump higher as well. I suspect horses are faster over long distances, but in the short run, a bison can run down a horse.

If a bison is faster strong, larger, and has better meat why are they less than half the cost of a horse?

Edited September 29, 2023 by dvdmacateer

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Real world bison are poor candidates for domestication.  So there is presumably some Eiritha magic going on there.  We always played Eiritha as extremely rare in Sartar, hence, few tame bison (none in fact).  YGMV.

Eiritha is really common in Sartar. She's got shrines in most Earth Temples and even a few minor temples.

[Malin]

I wonder if historically the price of horses might have been lower when the Lunars still occupied Sartar and there was easier access to horses from the north. Or if Bison has fallen in price after Argrath. Or if the price difference is mainly a point of status and how common they are, maybe they are just out to gouge all the sky pantheon fans out there who prefers horses rather than bison...

[Rodney Dangerduck]

11 minutes ago, Jeff said:

Eiritha is really common in Sartar. She's got shrines in most Earth Temples and even a few minor temples.

In this post from 2020, you say there are only a few hundred Eiritha initiates in all of Sartar, a fraction of a percent.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/cult-membership-in-sartar/

 

Eiritha could be more common if many Earth Cultists are dual initiates, e.g. of Ernalda and Eiritha.  Is that the intent?

[Jeff]

1 minute ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

In this post from 2020, you say there are only a few hundred Eiritha initiates in all of Sartar, a fraction of a percent.

https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/cult-membership-in-sartar/

 

Eiritha could be more common if many Earth Cultists are dual initiates, e.g. of Ernalda and Eiritha.  Is that the intent?

She's got about 1000 or more cultists in all of Sartar, but she's got plenty of shrines and minor temples. I think thanks to the strong ties to Prax, her rites and name is what is used in Sartar.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

I think it is a MGF change to allow more Praxian riding animals for Sartarite adventurers.  But, it is a change. 

For example, if you look through Smoking Ruins and Pegasus Plateau, there is no mention of riding bison, rhinos, or llamas, other than in the Pairing Stones scenario, which takes place in Prax.

[Jeff]

3 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I think it is a MGF change to allow more Praxian riding animals for Sartarite adventurers.  But, it is a change. 

For example, if you look through Smoking Ruins and Pegasus Plateau, there is no mention of riding bison, rhinos, or llamas, other than in the Pairing Stones scenario, which takes place in Prax.

And yet if you look at RQG (which I wrote first), you see that Vasana rides a bison and Harmast has zebras.

[Joerg]

I suppose it is a bit of a status question. There are comparatively cheap import rides, some of which have excellent performance but still may be frowned upon, and there are prestigious rides only nobles can afford, and that don't get confused with meat animals.

Harmast's Zebras combine rather high status import beasts with a breed that is a heroic achievement for his cult (after all Issaries herald is a major cult for the Praxian zebra riders). Vasana's bison is the equivalent of an imported pickup with reinforced front spoilers...

[Jape_Vicho]

Now I wonder if the Jrusteli thought about sending sables or bisons (or even Rhinos!) to the Veldt, instead of horses. 

[Joerg]

7 minutes ago, Jape_Vicho said:

Now I wonder if the Jrusteli thought about sending sables or bisons (or even Rhinos!) to the Veldt, instead of horses. 

Bredjeg failed with his invasion into the veldt when his cattle (or whichever beasts he brought for his wagons) died off due to malnourishment.