Seven Mothers Funereal Practices

[Scornado]

I am unable to find anything about Seven Mothers funereal practices: is anything available?

 

[MOB]

34 minutes ago, Scornado said:

I am unable to find anything about Seven Mothers funereal practices: is anything available?

 

Cults of Prax advises that local customs are given preference. So it depends where in the Empire you are. It also says that the cult will routinely try to resurrect devout worshippers "if possible", so funeral rites wouldn't take place until that is no longer viable (a week, according to the resurrect rune spell). From that I take it that a full week must pass after a SM worshipper dies before an official declaration of death can be made.

There is a bit more detail about funerals for Rune Priests and Lords of the cult, and the songs sung during the rites for them, which don't take place until the full moon. So they must have embalmers on hand. 

 

Edited December 5, 2023 by MOB

[Scornado]

Thanks MOB - that's very helpful.  I don't have Cults of Prax (way before my starting with Glorantha) so your wise words will tide me over until the new book in March.

[MOB]

53 minutes ago, Scornado said:

Thanks MOB - that's very helpful.  I don't have Cults of Prax (way before my starting with Glorantha) so your wise words will tide me over until the new book in March.

No worries. Cults of Prax is available in PDF and POD if you're interested (fully-remastered true to the original).

[Ali the Helering]

Being purely practical for a moment - in an environment like Prax are you really going to leave a dead body undealt with?  Hygienic storage will be a nightmare.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Ali the Helering said:

Being purely practical for a moment - in an environment like Prax are you really going to leave a dead body undealt with?  Hygienic storage will be a nightmare.

Burnt upon a pyre under the light of the Full Moon (ideally), then bury the ashes in an urn for proper Lunar reincarnation.

[MOB]

6 hours ago, Ali the Helering said:

Being purely practical for a moment - in an environment like Prax are you really going to leave a dead body undealt with?  Hygienic storage will be a nightmare.

For Seven Mothers cultists that's where embalmers come into the picture. Then you prop the dead sable rider up in the saddle and keep on riding until the full moon*. 

*But its not a "dead" body though, not officially, not until the priests says resurrection is no longer viable.  

[Ali the Helering]

That is not dead that can eternal be propped up

And with foul stenches even death may die.

[French Desperate WindChild]

8 hours ago, MOB said:

For Seven Mothers cultists that's where embalmers come into the picture. Then you prop the dead sable rider up in the saddle and keep on riding until the full moon*. 

*But its not a "dead" body though, not officially, not until the priests says resurrection is no longer viable.  

does that mean you can embalm a body before the "not yet seven days death" and resurrect the cultist after that ?

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

does that mean you can embalm a body before the "not yet seven days death" and resurrect the cultist after that ?

The body has to be healed to positive hotpoints and embalming fluid in the arteries and the veins goes well beyond any lethal dose. 

[MOB]

4 hours ago, French Desperate WindChild said:

does that mean you can embalm a body before the "not yet seven days death" and resurrect the cultist after that ?

Sure!

3 hours ago, metcalph said:

The body has to be healed to positive hotpoints and embalming fluid in the arteries and the veins goes well beyond any lethal dose. 

But that's how it works. The bereaved use whatever techniques they can to make their dead loved one stay rosy cheeked and as if alive, and boom! the healing magic applied makes it so. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

2 hours ago, MOB said:

Sure!

But that's how it works. The bereaved use whatever techniques they can to make their dead loved one stay rosy cheeked and as if alive, and boom! the healing magic applied makes it so. 

let's explore it. When I imagine embalming, I see some egyptians with a hook exploring the noose to extract brain.... That seems to me not really safe for the patient  resurrection candidate  😉  But I may be wrong

 

so does our glorantha new favorite activity follow the same way ? they extract some part, replace them by symbolic artifacts (or void) and then when the magic applies the artifact becomes true part (for example a clay? bitumed? brain becomes a flesh-?- brain).

 

or the process is more to "put in stasis" the body (so no egyptian hook in the noose) and there is no body degradation because they do rituals (heal spells, body painting, external strips and things like that)

 

or maybe it is just "natural" that gloranthan dead flesh doesn't rot at all (or not the first week) and people just interact like the person was sleeping (with all the fear, sadness, etc... that family has for someone who risks dying)

 

In the two options where body, without any ritual care (no extraction, or no painting, strips, etc...) cannot survive during this week. So adventurers could not be resurrected, if they have no specific material (and maybe hook....) and appropriate skills (I have hook brain 10%... don't die please) with them, just to join a caster with the resurection spell.

[Joerg]

The RuneQuest post-mortem stat deterioration is the real problem here - there is 1D3 stat loss per day regardless whether you refrigerate the body or leave it marinating in the sun, and the hit point recronstruction will be taken care of by a Heal Body before the Resurrection is enacted. Heal Body may even re-attach lost arms or limbs pre-resurrection, provided they are available, and should be able to reconstruct any gray matter splattered by that troll maul RAW.

Deezola offers Resurrection, but on a one-use base (unless that is about to be changed). Usually the temple would prefer to contract a healer of Erissa or Chalana Arroy if a Resurrection attempt is to be made, or ask a rune lord to attempt a Divine Intervention.

IMO the "heal all damage" step might be the critical failure point. How can a dead body respond to a healing magic? Would it be sensible to heal a dead comrade on his way to the CA temple immediately after the combat? Can a three day ripe body benefit from the healing magic? Would the embalmers use heal rather than thread and needle to reconstruct the dead?

Will Heal Body cope with straw fillings? With limbs or even necks Glued into place?

[Jens]

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

Would the embalmers use heal

Clearly Repair would do the trick as long as all the pieces are present 😉

[metcalph]

24 minutes ago, Jens said:

Clearly Repair would do the trick as long as all the pieces are present 😉

Glue would be a more appropriate spell methinks

[Jens]

4 hours ago, metcalph said:

Glue would be a more appropriate spell methinks

I thought of Glue first, but then the body falls apart every 2 minutes. Repair OTOH is permanent. 

[MOB]

On 12/8/2023 at 4:20 AM, Joerg said:

Will Heal Body cope with straw fillings? With limbs or even necks Glued into place?

Yep

[soltakss]

On 12/5/2023 at 6:38 PM, Ali the Helering said:

Being purely practical for a moment - in an environment like Prax are you really going to leave a dead body undealt with?  Hygienic storage will be a nightmare.

I would just ay that the body stays in a fit state for seven days, so that the body can be resurrected. It just makes things easier.

On 12/6/2023 at 9:54 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

does that mean you can embalm a body before the "not yet seven days death" and resurrect the cultist after that ?

Unless you as a GM rule that embalming stops Resurrection. That might be a valid point, as you are preparing funeral rites for the body.

Personally, I wouldn't, as it is a bit harsh on Adventurers.

On 12/7/2023 at 4:58 PM, French Desperate WindChild said:

let's explore it. When I imagine embalming, I see some egyptians with a hook exploring the noose to extract brain.... That seems to me not really safe for the patient  resurrection candidate  😉  But I may be wrong

If someone kills another person, say by lopping the top of their head off, and you cast Heal Body to heal it, the body can be Resurrected. If the killer takes spoon and eats the brains immediately after killing them, does that stop a Resurrection? I'd say that Heal Body repairs that damage too.

Heal Body allows for the regrowth of limbs, and presumably other organs, so it might be possible to be Resurrected after that.

It all depends on the stance that the GM takes. If the GM rules that the organs, for example, the brain, need to be regrown then is it possible to do that in the seven day limit? Healing Trance multiples healing eightfold, so a week is the equivalent of a Season's regrowth. 

However, Heal Body says "This spell cures the total damage done to a body, regardless of hit location or source. The target heals all damage from total hit points and hit location hit points. Any severed limbs reattach if available, or regenerate if not". So, that says to me that Heal Body is enough to regenerate organs messed up by the process.

 

[Joerg]

Tusk Rider scholars experimenting wish to find out whether Heal Body and Resurrection on a bisected body with the two halves kept apart will result in two identical people.

Now they research how to split or duplicate that person's spirit so that there is someone to call into the body. Possessed bodies don't seem to work.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Joerg

[Ali the Helering]

4 hours ago, soltakss said:

I would just ay that the body stays in a fit state for seven days, so that the body can be resurrected. It just makes things easier.

Easier, indeed.  Not my point, however.