Aeolians and spreading the faith

[radmonger]

i

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

No, the Malkioni worship the Gods knowing full well that they actually are the Gods - they are not monotheists.  Case in point: the father of Malkio, Aerlit, is the son of Vadrus, the son of Umath, the son of Aether and Gata.

I'm have doubts of the accuracy and scope of any sentence that starts with 'the malkioni', let alone continues with 'worship'...

The Aeolians are the world experts on the storm deity links of Malkion the Prophet, so any details on that known to scribes in Nochet likely reflect their perspective.

As i understand it, the Aeolians have a tri-caste society, with:

- Zzaburi performing sorcery, and also acting as rune priests of lightbringer deities

- a combined farmer/warrior caste who are mostly initiates of lightbringer deities.

- a noble caste who are Rune Lord/shamans with ancestry tracing to Malkion and Aerlit.

Significantly, they hold this system to be the way things should be, not a pragmatic compromise due to the lack of available lifespan to fully train proper wizards. They regard both other Lightbringers, and also other Malkioni as  each having lost one half of the picture

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, radmonger said:

i

I'm have doubts of the accuracy and scope of any sentence that starts with 'the malkioni', let alone continues with 'worship'...

The Aeolians are the world experts on the storm deity links of Malkion the Prophet, so any details on that known to scribes in Nochet likely reflect their perspective.

As i understand it, the Aeolians have a tri-caste society, with:

- Zzaburi performing sorcery, and also acting as rune priests of lightbringer deities

- a combined farmer/warrior caste who are mostly initiates of lightbringer deities.

- a noble caste who are Rune Lord/shamans with ancestry tracing to Malkion and Aerlit.

Significantly, they hold this system to be the way things should be, not a pragmatic compromise due to the lack of available lifespan to fully train proper wizards. They regard both other Lightbringers, and also other Malkioni as  each having lost one half of the picture

 

Yep. The Aeolians are their own ethnoreligious group, not a compromise half-way house.

[Kloster]

21 hours ago, Jeff said:

like with the Druze I doubt the Aeolians speak about the mysteries of their religion to outsiders.

I know that druze faith is a syncretism, including elements of shi'ism and other faith, but I see more the Aeolians as Glotanthan equivalents of the Hazaras, that lives as a homogeneous group, are considered as shi'i muslims by muslims, but as budhists by the budhist world, even if their beliefs include elements of mongolian shamanism. This is the earth comparison I used to explain them to my players (even if Lebanon has been a french possession during a few decades, hazaras are best known to french people because of a book by Joseph Kessel).

[Erol of Backford]

On 12/17/2023 at 7:22 AM, jajagappa said:

They are included in the Heortland regional book which is currently in the publication queue.

This is much anticipated... when will the POD version be ready? (My Nochet & Pavis 02 books are being printed now!)

On 12/17/2023 at 7:22 AM, jajagappa said:

The Aeolians are endogamous are marry within their caste and culture. 

YGWV, much more fun if class mobility is permitted, I think the Loskalm are mobile no, so like them? Then PC Farmers may advance socially through their efforts...

On 12/18/2023 at 4:33 PM, Jeff said:

This makes it awful difficult for outsiders to learn enough about the religion to become an initiate.

And is exactly like what PC's like to do, the difficult. They'll go to the local, solicit interest, preform tasks requested, kind of like Yellow the baboon no, sooner or later they'll become accepted unless you are a terrible GM. YGMV.

On 12/18/2023 at 4:47 PM, Ian_W said:

The first mention of "Saint Orlanth" pretty much gives away the farm, to anyone who knows anything about Western and Lightbringer religion.

You are going back to the non-canon 1990's stuff Joerg did. I love and have used it extensively but its not ideal to be a western knight of medieval Europe in Glorantha.

On 12/18/2023 at 9:28 PM, SDLeary said:

Feh! I think I'll pull out my copy of The Aeolian Church of Heortland! 😉

I'll get the first POD copy!

On 12/19/2023 at 2:51 AM, metcalph said:

As far as I can see it, the Aeolians acquire new followers by slow osmosis at the commoner caste.  An Aeolian family acquires a farm of Orlanthi.  Over the years one or two of them might make Aeolian observances to ingratiate themselves with their leaders.  

Exactly.

On 12/19/2023 at 3:55 AM, Akhôrahil said:

And while I don’t know if Xemela still has the ”Saint” title, that’s this kind of reinterpretation as well (assuming she’s ”just” CA).

I had not thought about that but the "Saints" in the old Zines could easily be Lightbringer equivalents, I'll look into that as having partons in the Orlanthi pantheon fits well into the Heortland for me (non-canon of course).

Excited to see the new Heortland book!

On 12/17/2023 at 2:40 AM, Ian_W said:

Bonus points if someone can inform me what impact, if any, their beliefs had on Baboons.

I like the idea that the Kight Fort/Marcher Barons having a good amount of peaceful interaction with the locals, not unlike in the movie Kingdom of Heaven in some instances. Exile Stead, Monkey Ruins, other closer oasis's, etc. I see some baboons troops or at least 1-2 hanging around Knight Fort looking to better themselves. YGMV but not all posted there would be so conceited to not permit the baboons from helping with mundane tasks in a comical way. And yet there could be some baboons who somehow know sorcery or are very strong shamans who frequent the fort to obtain trade goods?

Maybe a company of knights travel a circuit weekly or biweekly to check in on things in the area. They like security as well as others in the area, again YGMV. Taking this a step further caravans may travel with the knights for part of there route for added protection?

Has anyone done a writeup on the Marcher Barons, GtG p.256, Marcher County: This fortified borderland has long defended the Holy Country from Praxian raids.

YGMV but this would mean the Esvulari manage/administer Marcher County? if you play that route any schmuck could prove themselves worthy of knighthood after hard training and service as a mercenary in Marcher County and then the sky is the limit or is that St. Orlanth? LOL

  

 

 

Edited December 22, 2023 by Erol of Backford

[Erol of Backford]

On 12/19/2023 at 8:11 AM, Jeff said:

The Aeolians are their own ethnoreligious group, not a compromise half-way house.

So they are in the process of dying out slowly over a long period of time, their actual population is shrinking? Also  would there not be a constant threat of revolt by those nearby who do not own the land and are basically suppressed stick pickers and farmers? I suppose they could be kind and just group of feudal lords and not be suppressive. Sorry if I am missing it but farmers who do not accept their lot in life as such would just leave and make a living somewhere else wouldn't they? "Hey I could be a knight, warrior, whatever somewhere else, why sit hear and be a farmer giving a good portion of my efforts to the rich, high and mighty Esvulari as rent or whatever?

[Ian_W]

1 hour ago, Erol of Backford said:

I like the idea that the Knight Fort/Marcher Barons having a good amount of peaceful interaction with the locals, not unlike in the movie Kingdom of Heaven in some instances. Exile Stead, Monkey Ruins, other closer oasis's, etc. I see some baboons troops or at least 1-2 hanging around Knight Fort looking to better themselves. YGMV but not all posted there would be so conceited to not permit the baboons from helping with mundane tasks in a comical way. And yet there could be some baboons who somehow know sorcery or are very strong shamans who frequent the fort to obtain trade goods?  

What I'm writing is us mostly set a bit further north at Barbarian Town/Exile Stead, but yeah, when there isn't a raid there would be peaceful interaction. I strongly suspect Praxians and other outsiders would have to stay in some sort of Outsider Town, rather than inside Knight Fort itself.

Knight Fort is the easiest trade route to civilisation from South Prax, and you're going to get trade in both directions.

My view is that Baboons have strong shaman, as they are not very powerful footsloggers in plains dominated by riders - a troop of Baboons has to be able to threaten spiritual combat against unfriendly Praxian riders, so risks will be taken to get more, more powerful Shamans. Some of this will be bluff, of course. And it'll cost a bunch of apprentice Baboon shamans to death, madness or worse.

They are also traders, as half a dozen spearpoints are worth a lot more in deep Prax than they are in Knight Fort, that has actual well-established smithies.

I am not sure, at this point, what the Aeolians would think about 'heathen magics' like the bound Praxian spirits in fetishes, or taking advantage of the common magic being taught by Baboon shamans. They may well just take their cut from the trade and see the trade go elsewhere rather than be used locally.

 

[radmonger]

4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

"Hey I could be a knight, warrior, whatever somewhere else, why sit hear and be a farmer giving a good portion of my efforts to the rich, high and mighty Esvulari as rent or whatever?

Unlike other Malkioni, but like other Orlanthi. warriors and farmers are a single caste. This changes the fundamental power dynamics enough that rulers will effectively need the consent of the ruled, just as the case in other Orlanthi societies. 'Noone can make you do anything' is likely their slogan too.

An Aeolian clansman has most of the same freedoms as an Orlanthi. There are just two things they can't do:

a: magically demonstrate they have the right ancestry to be a clan leader

b: go back in time and spend their childhood indoors reading sorcery books.

They would probably regard those things as inherently impossible for them, not imposed social restrictions.

Incidentally, point 'a' sounds rather like the whole deal with lighting the Flame of Sartar, which is notably different from how tribal kingship works. Is there any canon word on whether Sartar was an Aeolian?

 

 

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This is much anticipated... when will the POD version be ready?

Chaosium's queue, not mine. 

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

YGWV, much more fun if class mobility is permitted, I think the Loskalm are mobile no, so like them? Then PC Farmers may advance socially through their efforts...

Then go to Loskalm. A key point of the Aeolians though is that they are NOT Men-of-All, and they aren't caste mobile. The PC Farmers might become Warriors, but they will never become Wizard-priests or Nobles. (And if they do, that pretty much means the end of their culture.)

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Excited to see the new Heortland book!

I can assure you there are no Saints! 🙂 

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So they are in the process of dying out slowly over a long period of time, their actual population is shrinking?

That's really a function of Fertility magic, is it not? And since Ernalda is one of the emanations of the Invisible God, and available to worship by nobles (as their ancestor!) and the commoners, I suspect there is a lot of invocation of her magic.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Also  would there not be a constant threat of revolt by those nearby who do not own the land and are basically suppressed stick pickers and farmers? I suppose they could be kind and just group of feudal lords and not be suppressive. Sorry if I am missing it but farmers who do not accept their lot in life as such would just leave and make a living somewhere else wouldn't they?

Given that the commoners choose their noble ruler (out of the available nobles), and that the wizard-priests provide additional blessings (i.e. sorcery) from the Invisible God in exchange for the worship by the commoners, why do you think there is a need to leave? This is far more secure than some tribal king asserting their right to rule by might/force of arms. Plus it has had the blessing of the God-king for 3 centuries, so why would you think this is an oppressive state?

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

"Hey I could be a knight, warrior, whatever somewhere else, why sit hear and be a farmer giving a good portion of my efforts to the rich, high and mighty Esvulari as rent or whatever?

Why do you think it is different in Orlanthi lands/among the Heortlings? Do you think it is that simple to just become a noble? Do you think the Orlanthi do not have noble families/clans that rule, and other clans that don't? Just look at the Colymar - they have been dominated by the Ernaldori clan as leaders of the Earth cult since their formation, and the leadership of that tribe vacillates between noble families among the Ernaldori, the Taraling, and occasionally the old Orlmarthi. Yes, you can rise to become a Rune Lord, maybe a Thane, but it's not going to be an easy road for one starting as a farmer. 

[metcalph]

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So they are in the process of dying out slowly over a long period of time, their actual population is shrinking? Also  would there not be a constant threat of revolt by those nearby who do not own the land and are basically suppressed stick pickers and farmers? I suppose they could be kind and just group of feudal lords and not be suppressive. Sorry if I am missing it but farmers who do not accept their lot in life as such would just leave and make a living somewhere else wouldn't they? "Hey I could be a knight, warrior, whatever somewhere else, why sit hear and be a farmer giving a good portion of my efforts to the rich, high and mighty Esvulari as rent or whatever?

Just because they are endogamous does not mean their population is slowly dying out over time.  There are two minority sects in the near east that are endogamous: the Druze and the Yazidis.  Both have survived a lot longer than the Aeolians and both have had hostile neighbours, which is not true of the Aeolians.  Ever since they became Belintar's strongest supporters, their numbers would have increased steadily over the past three centuries.  The years since then have been troubled but that same is true for everybody in the area.

Why would people be itching to revolt against the Aeolians?  The Orlanthi have stickpickers and half-frees yet nobody assumes they will plot to revolt against their nobles or carry out a rent-strike over lack of opportunities for social advancement.

[metcalph]

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

YGWV, much more fun if class mobility is permitted, I think the Loskalm are mobile no, so like them? Then PC Farmers may advance socially through their efforts...

If a PC Aeolian wants to be socially mobile, the best place for them is Black Horse County.  Starting out as a Farmer, they are never going make make a good sorcerer in any campaign and pretty much most gloranthan nobles are revolted by the idea of marrying a common oik.  

 

7 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

 

Maybe a company of knights travel a circuit weekly or biweekly to check in on things in the area. They like security as well as others in the area, again YGMV. Taking this a step further caravans may travel with the knights for part of there route for added protection?

The knights are slow compared to the Praxian riders.  Pretty sure that the Impalas are going to have fun using them for target practice.

 

 

[Ian_W]

1 hour ago, metcalph said:

The knights are slow compared to the Praxian riders.  Pretty sure that the Impalas are going to have fun using them for target practice.

Yes. But they are faster than Impalas trying to herd a mob of cattle out of Heortland.

They can't chase Praxians, but Praxians can't do more than hit and run - and thats why places like Knight Fort exist, so the farmers have a place to retreat to with their stock when warning comes of a raid.

[Ian_W]

3 hours ago, jajagappa said:

 

Why do you think it is different in Orlanthi lands/among the Heortlings? Do you think it is that simple to just become a noble? Do you think the Orlanthi do not have noble families/clans that rule, and other clans that don't? Just look at the Colymar - they have been dominated by the Ernaldori clan as leaders of the Earth cult since their formation, and the leadership of that tribe vacillates between noble families among the Ernaldori, the Taraling, and occasionally the old Orlmarthi. Yes, you can rise to become a Rune Lord, maybe a Thane, but it's not going to be an easy road for one starting as a farmer. 

For me, that's the origin story of the Pol Joni - it was a migration of the poor who had given up on progressing as good Sartarite Orlanthi, who left to be a New Thing on the Verge and inside Prax.

That has also been the basis of Exilestead, and of Storm Bull and the Road to the Block as a way out of cottar- or stickpicker-status.

[metcalph]

31 minutes ago, Ian_W said:

Yes. But they are faster than Impalas trying to herd a mob of cattle out of Heortland.

That's what the Marcher County is for.  A series of forts which can intercept raiders.  Knight Fort is well beyond Holy Country territory (about 40 to 60 km away) and who built and when is not clear.  Going on an extended patrol into Prax with only heavy cavalry is a good way to get killed.

 

[Ian_W]

2 hours ago, metcalph said:

That's what the Marcher County is for.  A series of forts which can intercept raiders.  Knight Fort is well beyond Holy Country territory (about 40 to 60 km away) and who built and when is not clear.  Going on an extended patrol into Prax with only heavy cavalry is a good way to get killed.

 

And yet, they can just stay in and close and safe to the walls of Knight Fort, and when the messenger bird, spirit or zzabur-magicked message arrives, they are potentially ready to send out the party towards Holy Country territory, 40 to 60 kilometers away, and show those Impala, Pol Joni or whatever raiders with their stolen cattle what for.

[Joerg]

5 hours ago, Ian_W said:

For me, that's the origin story of the Pol Joni - it was a migration of the poor who had given up on progressing as good Sartarite Orlanthi, who left to be a New Thing on the Verge and inside Prax.

I see the Pol Joni core as a migration of the vengeful following a heroic leader. "Sartarite" wasn't a thing when Derik left, during the reign of King Yarandros of Tarsh, the most powerful ruler in Dragon Pass since the EWF. (Phargentes was lord over plenty territory north of Dragon Pass but never conquered Sartar, and Fazzur and Tatius had no authority over Tarsh when ruling over the rest of Dragon Pass.)

They were joined by dissatisfied Grazer clans or warriors unwilling to yield rights to Vendref and the FHQ, and they offered Praxian outlaws an alternative to Gagarth provided they changed their mounts to horses (mainly of Grazer provenance, though not necessarily traded for). They opted for pastoralism as their main (possibly only) primary production, with a heavy side order in trading animals to the Quivini for metal and grain - horses from their own breeding, possibly mules, and certainly captured Praxian mounts.

Bringing in cattle (to be bred with Derik's magical bull) or horses means that the Pol Joni emigrants were people of some means in their homeland.

Exilestead in the Verge served as a place for specialized craft that was ill-suited to nomadic life without wagons.

In order to become and survive as a Pol Joni, you need a horse for each of your family members (plus a few spares as remounts and beasts of burden) and a small herd of cattle. As a cottar, acquiring these might be very hard even trading in all their other possessions. As a stickpicker, short of getting lucky in raids or in the wars of the Seleric era nothing in your previous life will get you these.

5 hours ago, Ian_W said:

That has also been the basis of Exilestead, and of Storm Bull and the Road to the Block as a way out of cottar- or stickpicker-status.

Exilestead might be the winter quarters for transhumant shepherds roaming the high slopes of the Storm Mountains in summer, shared with sky bulls rather than non-winged cattle. That would support a clientele less well-off, unable to afford steeds for the entire family (if they can afford a wife and children at all).

There also is a service industry in Exilestead allowing for a small non-rider population in a role similar to (but much less oppressed than) the Oasis Folk of Prax.

 

[Ian_W]

11 minutes ago, Joerg said:

Bringing in cattle (to be bred with Derik's magical bull) or horses means that the Pol Joni emigrants were people of some means in their homeland.

So. Explain to me again why people with better options are leaving well-watered, well-loved by Ernalda Dragon Pass, for the wastes of Prax.

Tell me again how much grass grows where they left from, as opposed to where they went to.

And then tell me, again, why the people that made this desperate journey, who you claim were  "people of some means in their homeland", which means people with options, did this.

The people later called the Pol Joni went head to head with the Beast Riders of Prax to grab a portion of that wrecked land.

Why would anyone with 'some means' seek death in that way ?

[Ian_W]

30 minutes ago, Joerg said:

 

Exilestead might be the winter quarters for transhumant shepherds roaming the high slopes of the Storm Mountains in summer

 

Or it might be, I dunno, a stead for people exiled from other Orlanthi lands, who make a living in the various ways as Orlanthi do.

Including making a dying when the Beast Nomads show up in numbers, wanting to get rid of that wart on Waha's side.

Remember, Harmast initiated there, in an era where Lokymayadon controlled who could, and could not, initiate, and therefore get to the Other side and do what were later called Heroquests.

Edited December 22, 2023 by Ian_W
Spelling

[radmonger]

i'd imagine the Pol Joni had a large proportion of thanes who wanted to be chieftains, farmers who wanted to be thanes, and thralls who wanted to be farmers.  And relatively few farmers who wanted to be rich farmers, and thanes who wanted to be long-lived.

[Joerg]

The trauma of Jaldon's Big Raid, which destroyed many a clan, was Derik's motivation. Derik (and numerous other Quivini) found service with the King of Tarsh, and opportunity to shine in the Battle of Quintus Vale.

With Jaldon put to rest, there still were too many Praxians willing to raid the Quivini border region. Following Jaldon's ways was to bring the raiding to the Praxians instead, and depriving them of their best lands.

The Pol Joni Marches (as they are known to the Quivini) were known to the Praxians as The Good Place and The Better Place, other than Eiritha's Sacred Ground around the Paps the most fertile parts of Prax west of the Zola Fel Valley, and fine for nomadic and even transhumant cattle grazing year round.

 

Ernalda's blessing (or that of her grain goddess daughters) is required for agriculture - plowing and harvesting. The Pol Joni gave up on that, and turned towards Eiritha for the blessing of their herds, and received it. By interbreeding their hill cattle with Pentan steppe breeds, the Pol Joni arrived at a hardier breed well suited for the Pol Joni March.

One difference in the Praxian outskirts is that the well-watered valley bottoms aren't given over to plow-land but provide prime pasture instead, something less available than among the Quivin hills, and getting scarcer even in the Grazelands now the Vendref had a protectress.

 

Going head to head with the nomads was unavoidable. The only question was on whose terms, and Derik offered favorable terms compared to sitting by your grain fields while Praxian herds graze on your harvest and your cattle is driven away or slaughtered.

A similar question would have been what Colymar would leave their birth clans to join the cattle-rancher Annmagarn in the Colymar Wilds?

 

And who would sponsor a cottar's or stickpicker's initial capital of a horse, a few cows, and weapons required to join the Pol Joni? A sufficiently able Praxian outlaw would bring his own steed (even if he had to give it up for a horse) and a few meat beasts, and weapons. A Grazer exile would come with re-mounts and expertise at horse breeding, and weapons.

The Orlanthi would need expertise in cattle-herding and breeding, which is rare among cottars, and nearly unheard of among stick-pickers.

[Ian_W]

And none of that explains why they stayed, and becomes Praxians.

 

Your just-so story explains nothing.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Ian_W said:

So. Explain to me again why people with better options are leaving well-watered, well-loved by Ernalda Dragon Pass, for the wastes of Prax.

Tell me again how much grass grows where they left from, as opposed to where they went to.

This stretch of Prax is much like the lands below the Rockies in Wyoming or Colorado. It is not wasteland, and herds can live along here - in fact, it's some of the best grasslands of Prax. 

Why did homesteaders leave the eastern US to settle in Colorado, Wyoming, or Montana? They weren't the poor and impoverished, and they had other options. 

This is a place where you could say the winds of Orlanth blow free without constraint by old, tradition-bound cults.

[Jeff]

1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

This stretch of Prax is much like the lands below the Rockies in Wyoming or Colorado. It is not wasteland, and herds can live along here - in fact, it's some of the best grasslands of Prax. 

Why did homesteaders leave the eastern US to settle in Colorado, Wyoming, or Montana? They weren't the poor and impoverished, and they had other options. 

This is a place where you could say the winds of Orlanth blow free without constraint by old, tradition-bound cults.

Yeah I pretty much live in the Pol-Joni March (my great-grandfather was a cattleman, so this area was great for ranching). 

[Erol of Backford]

20 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Yes, you can rise to become a Rune Lord, maybe a Thane, but it's not going to be an easy road for one starting as a farmer. 

All our original characters from the 80's were dirt farmers, headers, etc. they started from nothing and after a long time, several years became to be known (and wanted as an outlaw almost always)... who wants an easy road, it takes the fun out of it or so we used to think.

[Joerg]

On 12/22/2023 at 1:36 PM, Ian_W said:

And none of that explains why they stayed, and becomes Praxians.

Basically, it is the decision of Derik to put his warband there. Derik was successful enough to form a tribe.

On 12/22/2023 at 1:36 PM, Ian_W said:

Your just-so story explains nothing.

 

It is the story of a warrior band out there to put Jaldon to rest establishing itself as a tribe, building up a sustainable pastoralist economy, getting wives and children, and taking land from the Praxians who had harmed their kin.

They had learned mounted warfare against nomad foes at the side of King Yarandros, fighting the Opili Nation Pentans not only at the major battle of Quintus Vale, but throughout the Seleric episode. Jaldon's Great Raid was part of the Seleric commotion, too.

The core of Derik's followers already lived much of their lives in the saddle. Making that their new way of life was not that big of a change for them. The Grazeland dissidents desired such a nomadic way of life, too, and their Praxian outlaw recruits brought the necessary survival skills for a long term stay in the region.

These were warriors fairly rich in plunder, which would be why the Quivini tribes would send them brides despite their nomadic ways.

 

Your story of have-nothing refugees setting up their own doomed farming community in the Verge may have happened over and over again, leaving dead bodies and burnt down hovels behind, but that is not the story of the Pol Joni, or their settlement known as Barbarian Town.

There is one other such settlement on the fringes of Prax: Adari, up north in the Bison Plains, just outside of Dagori Inkarth, birthplace of Pavis (the hero). Adari served as the trading town for the Pure Horse Folk of Prax, basically Pentan sectarians who found employ by the Kingdom of Orlanthland (not yet draconic) as a buffer against the increasingly less Lightbringer-worshipping Praxians - maybe because those who had embraced Lightbringer ways had remained in lands they received as spoils of war like e.g. in Sylila or Kostaddi as cavalry nobility lording over farmers. The wolves we know nowadays are as much the product of human selection as are our dogs, by removing those more suited to co-operation with humans we have created the wolves who aren't. A similar influence on the Beast Riders may have changed their outlook towards the farmers of Dragon Pass.

[Erol of Backford]

On 12/21/2023 at 8:03 PM, jajagappa said:

I can assure you there are no Saints! 🙂 

No St. Orlant... makes me sad.

I am guessing that maybe some of "saints" ascended masters, whatever are emanations of the Orlanthi Pantheon... maybe St. Xemela is actually Chalana Arroy as an example.

I think each of those old saints could be an aspect of the Orlanthi Pantheon somehow. Might run with that, easy enough to sort out.

Durengard without St. Elmal Hose-friend is like chicken pesto without the pesto. (do they have pesto in Glorantha, I don't have the cookbook)

Do the Aeolians have a group of traders that would indirectly/unintentionally act as missionaries and "spread the faith"?

Fertility magic aside, has the Aeolian population stayed relatively constant over the past 2-300 years on the Heortland Plateau? Guessing they don't marry out of the Aeolian ethnicity?

Edited January 19 by Erol of Backford