Aeolians and spreading the faith

[Ian_W]

Is there anything in canon about the followers of the prophet Aeol, and his views about the Lightbringers and so on being emenations of the Invisible God, trying to spread their faith ?

 

I'm specifically looking at whether they'd be doing this towards Barbarian Town and Prax in the pre-Hero Wars Third Age, when they appeared to have the Knight Fort on the east of the Stormwalk Mountains as a forward base.

 

Bonus points if someone can inform me what impact, if any, their beliefs had on Baboons.

[metcalph]

1 minute ago, Ian_W said:

Is there anything in canon about the followers of the prophet Aeol, and his views about the Lightbringers and so on being emenations of the Invisible God, trying to spread their faith ?

I'm specifically looking at whether they'd be doing this towards Barbarian Town and Prax in the pre-Hero Wars Third Age, when they appeared to have the Knight Fort on the east of the Stormwalk Mountains as a forward base.

Bonus points if someone can inform me what impact, if any, their beliefs had on Baboons.

Much of what Chaosium has written about the Aeolians is now post-canonical largely because the Malkioni themselves have changed.  Nowadays they aren't a missionary faith but they could have been in earlier ages.  

Knight Fort seems to have been established fairly recently and may or may not be populated by Aeolians at all.  I don't think anybody is brave enough to establish a forward base and the Aeolians don't seem to have the necessary troops (ie light cavalry) to make the base a success.  Since there are Aeolians in the Marcher County, the Baboons at Monkey Ruins and the outlaws at Exile Stead would be all to aware of them..  Whether a Baboon drank the Melo Yellow and tried to become an Aeolian is plausible - silly but plausible.

[Ian_W]

7 minutes ago, metcalph said:

  Whether a Baboon drank the Melo Yellow and tried to become an Aeolian is plausible - silly but plausible.

No. That isn't what the Return to Glory is about. No. Not at all. *muhahahahaaaaaa*

[jajagappa]

4 hours ago, Ian_W said:

Is there anything in canon about the followers of the prophet Aeol, and his views about the Lightbringers and so on being emenations of the Invisible God, trying to spread their faith ?

They are included in the Heortland regional book which is currently in the publication queue.

The Aeolians (aka Esvulari) are around 10% of the Heortland population, generally concentrated in southern Heortland up to Durengard, with their great temple at Mount Passant.

They have only three castes: noble, wizard-priest, and commoner. They consider worship of the Lightbringers and other deities acceptable as Emanations of the Invisible God. Nobles worship their ancestors which can be traced back at least to Aeol, possibly Orlanth and Ernalda. Wizard-priests are typical zzaburi and lead the worship of the Invisible God, and apply the Invisible God's blessings as directed by the nobles. The Commoners worship those other gods recognized as Emanations. 

The Aeolians are endogamous are marry within their caste and culture. 

4 hours ago, Ian_W said:

I'm specifically looking at whether they'd be doing this towards Barbarian Town and Prax in the pre-Hero Wars Third Age, when they appeared to have the Knight Fort on the east of the Stormwalk Mountains as a forward base.

Not very much. They are a relatively closed culture, not a proselytizing one. Knight Fort or the like served as defensive positions against raiding Praxians (if you consider that until 1300+ that Dragon Pass was closed to humans, then the main westward target for Praxians was southern Heortland).

[Nick Brooke]

Everything the Aeolians know about religion, they learned from Baboons in the Dark. This is a fundamental Gloranthan Truth.

[Joerg]

6 hours ago, Ian_W said:

Is there anything in canon about the followers of the prophet Aeol, and his views about the Lightbringers and so on being emenations of the Invisible God, trying to spread their faith ?

Last Word of Jeff had the Aeolians practicing close endogamy in their three castes (talar, zzabur and commoner, with every caste taking up arms as required). While there may be the occasional Malkioni or Orlanthi convert joining one of their castes, there don't seem to be any efforts to attract new worshippers.

Possibly owing to the fact that the local Orlanthi worship may act as additional lay worship to their temples?

6 hours ago, Ian_W said:

I'm specifically looking at whether they'd be doing this towards Barbarian Town and Prax in the pre-Hero Wars Third Age, when they appeared to have the Knight Fort on the east of the Stormwalk Mountains as a forward base.

The Marcher Barons apparently uphold a tradition of heavy horse-mounted cavalry, possibly with Western style armor and tactics. Whether they (or at least their nobles) are Aeolian or traditional Orlanthi may differ from case to case, as with the Bandori tribe or the rest of Esvular.

As a rule, it is a lot more likely for noble Aeolians to be able to own and maintain a cavalry-trained horse and the associated personal armor than for Aeolian commoners, and ditto for the local Orlanthi.

 

 

Baboons can teach humans about reaching their human ancestors, which means that Nick has a point about being taught about religion. But unless there is a branch of storm baboons, that exposure doesn't quite explain how and why they turned to the Storm as amendment to their Zzaburi ways.

 

[Nick Brooke]

All human religion was learned from baboons in the Dark, Joerg. I shouldn’t have to remind you of this.

[Joerg]

Which Dark are you talking about, Nick? The Monkey Kingdom was a Golden Age empire, when the monkeys told the newly introduced humans the mores of civilization and city-building. It all happened under the watchful gaze of Brighteye, not somewhere huddled in the long night.

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Not very much. They are a relatively closed culture, not a proselytizing one.

Some of Jeff's notes which are foundational for the Heortland book are noted here: 

Aeolians – The Well of Daliath (chaosium.com)

Of particular note from that reference: "I tend to think of the Aeolians as being roughly analogous to the Druze or Yazidi. They are an ethnoreligious group that are always a minority outside of their strongholds. As an aside, I do not believe that the Aeolians try to convert anyone. I am not sure they even accept converts!"

[Jeff]

7 hours ago, Ian_W said:

Is there anything in canon about the followers of the prophet Aeol, and his views about the Lightbringers and so on being emenations of the Invisible God, trying to spread their faith ?

Aeolianism is not a proselytising religion. 

 

[g33k]

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

Some of Jeff's notes which are foundational for the Heortland book are noted here: 

Aeolians – The Well of Daliath (chaosium.com)

Of particular note from that reference: "... As an aside... I am not sure they even accept converts!"

🤔   IMG, this clearly needs to change to "converts are never encouraged, and rarely accepted.  A few Zzaburi have occasionally set impossible (but useful & valuable to the temple) challenges to prove worthiness to join.  These usually kill the aspiring Aeolian... but not always."  😱

MGF ftw!  (a flat "no" is much less fun)  😁

[jajagappa]

8 hours ago, g33k said:

IMG, this clearly needs to change to "converts are never encouraged, and rarely accepted. 

I'm sure there are situations of Esvulari commoners falling in love with Heortlanders and marrying them. The deities worshiped are the same, but will the Heortlander recognize and offer worship to the Invisible God and meet the other community restrictions (which may include violating typical Orlanthi taboos - e.g. they might have to herd or eat goats) as well in order to join the Esvulari community? That's really what it comes down to. 

[g33k]

On 12/18/2023 at 5:03 AM, jajagappa said:

I'm sure there are situations of Esvulari commoners falling in love with Heortlanders and marrying them. The deities worshiped are the same, but will the Heortlander recognize and offer worship to the Invisible God and meet the other community restrictions (which may include violating typical Orlanthi taboos - e.g. they might have to herd or eat goats) as well in order to join the Esvulari community? That's really what it comes down to. 

I think there are separate questions:

•   can (will) the "aspiring Aeolian" sufficiently adapt to the new cultural & Cultic norms?
•   is there an officiant willing to bless their becoming an Aeolian?

I think the "MGF" answers should depend on who's the PC & NPC, and be some form of "yes, and..." or "yes, but..."

 

Edited December 26, 2023 by g33k

[Kloster]

2 hours ago, g33k said:

can (will) the "aspiring Aeolian" can sufficiently adapt to the new cultural & Cultic norms?

As commoner and nobles function quite as 'normal' Orlanthi, I think that in most the case, the answer would be yes (but ...)

2 hours ago, g33k said:

is there an officiant willing to bless their becoming an Aeolian?

This part is clearly much more complicated, as said officiant can be a zzaburi, but MGF!

[Jeff]

This is a setting where a human can choose to become a troll or an elf, so of course it is possible for an outsider to become accepted as an Aeolian. But I doubt it is easy - like with the Druze I doubt the Aeolians speak about the mysteries of their religion to outsiders. This makes it awful difficult for outsiders to learn enough about the religion to become an initiate.

[Qizilbashwoman]

7 minutes ago, Jeff said:

This is a setting where a human can choose to become a troll or an elf, so of course it is possible for an outsider to become accepted as an Aeolian. But I doubt it is easy - like with the Druze I doubt the Aeolians speak about the mysteries of their religion to outsiders. This makes it awful difficult for outsiders to learn enough about the religion to become an initiate.

unlike the Druze, however, they do accept converts!

[Ian_W]

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

This is a setting where a human can choose to become a troll or an elf, so of course it is possible for an outsider to become accepted as an Aeolian. But I doubt it is easy - like with the Druze I doubt the Aeolians speak about the mysteries of their religion to outsiders. This makes it awful difficult for outsiders to learn enough about the religion to become an initiate.

 

The first mention of "Saint Orlanth" pretty much gives away the farm, to anyone who knows anything about Western and Lightbringer religion.

I'm pretty sure it'd be simple for someone from somewhere civilised that has been fighting with and against sorcery for a while to foment kinstrife among the Sartarites to form a "Aeolian" cult, that promises to teach sorcery to any Lightbringer worshippers ... I mean, 'Saint' is just how the Westerners pronounce 'God', right ?

Couple of pamphlets, make a 'St Barntar's Prayer of Sharpen Plow' spell and you could upset the social order right and proper, and then the storm barbarians will be fighting each other rather than us.

Worked with Monrogh, didn't it ?!

But yeah, the ones in Heortland are quite happy to be who they are in their hills between Prax and the Holy Country.

[Jeff]

5 minutes ago, Ian_W said:

 

The first mention of "Saint Orlanth" pretty much gives away the farm, to anyone who knows anything about Western and Lightbringer religion.

I'm pretty sure it'd be simple for someone from somewhere civilised that has been fighting with and against sorcery for a while to foment kinstrife among the Sartarites to form a "Aeolian" cult, that promises to teach sorcery to any Lightbringer worshippers ... I mean, 'Saint' is just how the Westerners pronounce 'God', right ?

Couple of pamphlets, make a 'St Barntar's Prayer of Sharpen Plow' spell and you could upset the social order right and proper, and then the storm barbarians will be fighting each other rather than us.

Worked with Monrogh, didn't it ?!

But yeah, the ones in Heortland are quite happy to be who they are in their hills between Prax and the Holy Country.

Ummm. Haven't seen the use of the term "Saint Orlanth" in any of the canonical materials. 

[Jeff]

13 minutes ago, Qizilbashwoman said:

unlike the Druze, however, they do accept converts!

As a general rule, they don't. I am sure it is possible - but then again, it is possible for a human to become a dark troll or an elf.

[SDLeary]

Feh! I think I'll pull out my copy of The Aeolian Church of Heortland! 😉

SDLeary

Edited December 19, 2023 by SDLeary
damn autocorrect!

[metcalph]

9 hours ago, Ian_W said:

The first mention of "Saint Orlanth" pretty much gives away the farm, to anyone who knows anything about Western and Lightbringer religion.

Even under the old terminology, Saints were humans who had discovered truths of the Invisible God.  Which kinda made the idea of a God being a Saint always sounding off.  

The Orlanthi would know that the Aeolians submit themselves to the will of their Sorcerors which makes them kinda sus.  Even though they insist they worship the same gods as the Orlanthi, they always keep their mouths clamped shut at places normal people would have no reason to.  

The Malkioni would know that the Aeolians submit themselves to the whims of their gods which makes them very suspicious.  Even though they insist they follow the Invisible God like other westerners, they indulge in the gods whereas other would restrain themslves.  

The Aeolians know that over the centuries, patient explanations of their faith have gotten them nowhere.  Thus they keep faith in their Gods and keep silent about them when among outsiders.  If they ever were to readily welcome strangers into their religion, it would take a hero to make the conceptual leap in their faith.  

As far as I can see it, the Aeolians acquire new followers by slow osmosis at the commoner caste.  An Aeolian family acquires a farm of Orlanthi.  Over the years one or two of them might make Aeolian observances to ingratiate themselves with their leaders.  

[Akhôrahil]

49 minutes ago, metcalph said:

Even under the old terminology, Saints were humans who had discovered truths of the Invisible God.  Which kinda made the idea of a God being a Saint always sounding off.  

That makes it the ideal reinterpretation if you want to incorporate other gods under the IG? Not another god (because there aren’t any other gods), but still worthy of veneration. Ehemeristic Orlanth.

[metcalph]

4 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

That makes it the ideal reinterpretation if you want to incorporate other gods under the IG? Not another god (because there aren’t any other gods), but still worthy of veneration. Ehemeristic Orlanth.

The Malkioni already worship Gods under the Invisible God.  

[Akhôrahil]

3 minutes ago, metcalph said:

The Malkioni already worship Gods under the Invisible God.  

And while I don’t know if Xemela still has the ”Saint” title, that’s this kind of reinterpretation as well (assuming she’s ”just” CA).

[metcalph]

Just now, Akhôrahil said:

And while I don’t know if Xemela still has the ”Saint” title, that’s this kind of reinterpretation as well (assuming she’s ”just” CA).

No, the Malkioni worship the Gods knowing full well that they actually are the Gods - they are not monotheists.  Case in point: the father of Malkio, Aerlit, is the son of Vadrus, the son of Umath, the son of Aether and Gata.