Do the Orlanthi brand their cattle?

[Broadsmile]

What with Cattle raiding being the national sport of Dragon Pass. Do the Oralthi (Sartarites) mark their cattle to show ownership as many earth cultures do? Do they Brand their cattle cowboy style? (Hard to remove). Do they tatoo them? Is there a canon answer?

Additional cattle query: Do the Praxians steal & trade each others iconic herd beasts? How mixed do their herds become? If i'm a bison tribesman herding a flock of Impalas, herd-men and Ostriches will the other Tribsmen look down on me?

[Squaredeal Sten]

3 minutes ago, Broadsmile said:

What with Cattle raiding being the national sport of Dragon Pass. Do the Oralthi (Sartarites) mark their cattle to show ownership as many earth cultures do? Do they Brand their cattle cowboy style? (Hard to remove). Do they tatoo them? Is there a canon answer?

Additional cattle query: Do the Praxians steal & trade each others iconic herd beasts? How mixed do their herds become? If i'm a bison tribesman herding a flock of Impalas, herd-men and Ostriches will the other Tribsmen look down on me?

Q1:  There is no reference to branding in canon or non=canon material that I have read.  Nor to tattooing cattle.  Please note that branding is only effective if you have a brand registry and rule of law.  

Q2: There is canon material saying that the Praxians steal herd beasts.  i also recall, but cannot reference,  a comment that the stolen ones are the one they tend to eat first when they eat meat.

A highly mixed herd would be a mark of an outstanding herd beast thief.  Such a person would be looked up to and influential.

 

[Richard S.]

6 minutes ago, Broadsmile said:

Additional cattle query: Do the Praxians steal & trade each others iconic herd beasts? How mixed do their herds become? If i'm a bison tribesman herding a flock of Impalas, herd-men and Ostriches will the other Tribsmen look down on me?

That's how it works, yes. Praxians even prefer to eat the beasts of other tribes before their own. They're named for the beast they ride, not because it's the only one they use.

[Broadsmile]

34 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Q1:  There is no reference to branding in canon or non=canon material that I have read.  Nor to tattooing cattle.  Please note that branding is only effective if you have a brand registry and rule of law.  

Q2: There is canon material saying that the Praxians steal herd beasts.  i also recall, but cannot reference,  a comment that the stolen ones are the one they tend to eat first when they eat meat.

A highly mixed herd would be a mark of an outstanding herd beast thief.  Such a person would be looked up to and influential.

 

1. Im sure it's more effective with registers and rule of law. But in absence of that it still seems a convenient enough theft prevention method. Albeit one with countermeasures (I mean the Eurumali would mess with them just for the thrill). The Orlanthi are already adept at recognising clan/cult marks. And the clans do launch legal challanges against each other so there is some sort of recognised common law even in abscence of a high-king or other central authority.  So you could probably get your cows back if you found them being sold at the nearby market town?

2. Good point I'd respect an Impala rider driving his herd of captured Bison downrange.    

[John Biles]

In the real world, branding has been around since 2700 BC.

So it makes sense to me that it would exist in Glorantha.

[Akhôrahil]

Branding makes sense to me - even within a clan, cattle can be personal property yet (presumably) put into mixed-ownership herds, and then it makes everything easier. It's questionable how much it does against cattle raiding though - that's rightful and honorable stealing, and few people are going to listen to you if you make any claims against stolen cattle (outside of the clan - theft within the clan is intolerable).

Ear-clipping is a possible alternative.

Edited February 2 by Akhôrahil

[David Scott]

14 hours ago, Broadsmile said:

What with Cattle raiding being the national sport of Dragon Pass.

Cattle raiding is usually limited the those who are in their two year training after initiation, and for those who are behaving stupidly (See Cattle Raid in the GM Screen Pack for a good example).

14 hours ago, Broadsmile said:

Do the Oralthi (Sartarites) mark their cattle to show ownership as many earth cultures do? Do they Brand their cattle cowboy style? (Hard to remove). Do they tatoo them? Is there a canon answer?

Yes, in the GM Screen pack, adventure book (page 92): The cattle are marked with the Black Spear of Colymar

Notes on livestock, page 87 details ownership.

14 hours ago, Broadsmile said:

Additional cattle query: Do the Praxians steal & trade each others iconic herd beasts? How mixed do their herds become? If i'm a bison tribesman herding a flock of Impalas, herd-men and Ostriches will the other Tribsmen look down on me?

Lightbringers 147: Raiding All the Praxian tribes prefer to capture and eat the beasts of other tribes rather than their own. The raiding of tribe against tribe is a regular feature in their lives.

Only in rare cases will there be any mixing. In clans, small mixed herds for dowery purposes are kept separate until needed, then eaten as part of the marriage event.

[Shiningbrow]

On 2/2/2024 at 6:42 AM, Broadsmile said:

1. Im sure it's more effective with registers and rule of law. But in absence of that it still seems a convenient enough theft prevention method. Albeit one with countermeasures (I mean the Eurumali would mess with them just for the thrill). The Orlanthi are already adept at recognising clan/cult marks. And the clans do launch legal challanges against each other so there is some sort of recognised common law even in abscence of a high-king or other central authority.  So you could probably get your cows back if you found them being sold at the nearby market town?

But, if you catch up to the thieves while they're still on your lands, it's much harder for them to claim that they're just getting their cows back... As per the aforementioned cattle raid, you could negotiate the return of some of your cows - but if they were clearly stolen (brand identification), then you're not going to be able to make that case - and you get nothing, and no good reason to negotiate!

[mfbrandi]

On 2/4/2024 at 12:34 PM, Shiningbrow said:

but if they were clearly stolen (brand identification)

What is the cultural attitude to (being found to have indulged in) cattle theft: “it’s a fair cop, guv” or “possession is nine tenths of the law”?

Who teaches the “rebrand herd” permanent battle magic spell? How many cows per point? If nobody teaches it, does that push us in the direction of “I don’t care — steal them back or shut up”? Is widespread and respected branding some kind of mark of “civilisation” or respect for law, or is it a quaint non-starter in a magic-rich world? Is there a magical arms race for a harder-to-defeat brand? I guess we would have heard about it, so I am doubtless lost in the mire of variant Glorantha. 😉

Edited February 5 by mfbrandi
(…)

[radmonger]

Stealing back your branded cattle is considered respectable and boast-worthy for sober men over 25. The ultimate flex is to sneak in, take time to select those cattle with your marks, and take only them.

Any cattle raid less perfectly executed than that causes a grievance that a clan may be able to bring to a tribal, national or (less common in modern days) independent lawspeaker. They may make a judgement assigning rightful ownership of all cows carrying a particular brand to one party. This would normally only happen if the other side had been persistently exceeding the acceptable norms of who did the stealing, and what they stole. And lesser sanctions such as monetary compensation, or exiling some individual would be considered first.

This judgement can then be enforced by legitimate theft, as above.

Edited February 5 by radmonger

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

“possession is nine tenths of the law”?

"Theft is property." 🙂

Edited February 5 by Akhôrahil

[Pentallion]

The Orlanthi have lots of brands.  Red Bull, Dairy Queen and Burger King just to name a few 🙂

[radmonger]

I think modern canon refers to the last of those as Burger Rex.