Ransomees and their Equipment

[Joerg]

10 hours ago, svensson said:

And while those who know about Waha's Covenant MAY know that, almost NO Heortling knows it.

Also unknown to most is that all Waha Khans can perform this magic, not just the Morokanth. Beware the friendly Bison khan...

[Malin]

9 hours ago, svensson said:

Would you guys like me to upload a file with all that?

Please do!

[Joerg]

9 hours ago, svensson said:

So, question for the Collective Thanatari Head...

I've done a fair bit typing and brainstorming on this topic and I think I'm gonna I'm gather my ideas together for my own use.

Would you guys like me to upload a file with all that?

Please go ahead. You might consider a short Jonstown Compendium publication in the future, too.

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Joerg said:

Please go ahead. You might consider a short Jonstown Compendium publication in the future, too.

I wouldn't even know how to begin to do that. Anyone I could talk to about setting up the how-to's?

[Squaredeal Sten]

18 hours ago, Jens said:

IMHO the use of Alter Creature by Morokanth to turn humans into herd men is mostly a tall tale told to frighten children and ignorant outsiders. Not only does it only impact members of Waha’s covenant, but it takes 2 points of permanent POW- effectively costing the Morkanth 400L to turn a skilled slave they could sell for 300L into a dumb beast for a net loss of 700L... I’d assume it is only done for particularly important social/mythological reasons, not as a matter of course or out of spite. 

Or perhaps if they see their prisoner would be especially good breeding stock.  After all like other Praxians the Morokanth way of life revolves around their herd.  Maybe they don't monetize thins as much as you and I do.

Edited March 2 by Squaredeal Sten
last sentence

[Snork]

34 minutes ago, svensson said:

I wouldn't even know how to begin to do that. Anyone I could talk to about setting up the how-to's?

IIRC @Nick Brooke is the head honcho for the JC. These may help 

https://www.facebook.com/groups/3300536396630881

https://www.chaosium.com/runequest-community-content/ 

https://help.drivethrurpg.com/hc/en-us/articles/12723268545943-Jonstown-Compendium-Content-Guidelines?affiliate_id=77157

[Squaredeal Sten]

35 minutes ago, svensson said:

I wouldn't even know how to begin to do that. Anyone I could talk to about setting up the how-to's?

Nick Brooke.  

Chaosium basically wants playable material on Jonstiwn Compendium.  So it might go down better if it included a playable adventure.

You could also take the next class from Storytelling Collective.

On Jonstown Compendium  look at the guidelines, also look at Chaosium's guidelines.

Mechanically, you drop your text into the JC template, put it into two columns, add any art, add a cover,   and export a PDF.  Best to get someone to proof it before you upload to JC.

[radmonger]

A lightweight alternative to that is to create a blog on this site; I suspect quite a few people miss that menu option...

[svensson]

The file I mentioned is uploaded under the name 'Ransom Customs IMGU'

Thanks for the encouragement

 

[Akhôrahil]

I think it makes sense if equipment is just lost (although could be ransomed back at an additional cost). Consider:

Vargast has a lot of expensive stuff on him, worth well in excess of his ransom value. If you beat him up and take his stuff, it’s rightfully stolen and your property.

But if you also take him prisoner, now you would have to return his stuff for free when he’s ransomed, making the whole thing a losing proposition? That makes no sense to me!

Of course, you could still choose to set him free with his stuff, either to garner honor/rep or to try to maintain better relationships, but that seems like going above and beyond.

[metcalph]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

Vargast has a lot of expensive stuff on him, worth well in excess of his ransom value.

In RW terms, this would be known as negative equity.  Clearly Vargast has made some bad decisions in his past.

[PhilHibbs]

On 3/5/2024 at 11:55 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Vargast has a lot of expensive stuff on him, worth well in excess of his ransom value. If you beat him up and take his stuff, it’s rightfully stolen and your property.

Hmmm, not keen on that, sure it might be realistic but in game terms taking a character's stuff is generally a big no-no. Great way to lose friends.

[Squaredeal Sten]

18 hours ago, PhilHibbs said:

Hmmm, not keen on that, sure it might be realistic but in game terms taking a character's stuff is generally a big no-no. Great way to lose friends.

Surrendering has to have some downside.   

Slaughtering the enemy til their bodies are piled waist  high and then getting away with saying "my ransom is 500L" when you clearly have thousands of Lunars worth of iron and magic?    Not believable.

And it's pretty hard to keep someone captive when they still hold their magic sword, teleportation matrix, and Sandals of Darkness.  It just doesn't make sense for the captors NOT to take it.  Giving it back is to be negotiated.  

 

Edited March 8 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[Axel]

My take is that one of the main reasons for the ransom system is to encourage Players to surrender rather than fight to the death, so the details should support that.
Generally players hate losing gear, often more than losing the PC entirely, in which case the default would be that ransomees keep their gear. That said, I would ask your players when first explaining ransoms, or as a Session 0 question, how they want it handled in your campaign 'cos this seems like a YGWV issue.

[mfbrandi]

52 minutes ago, Axel said:

Generally players hate losing gear, often more than losing the PC entirely, in which case the default would be that ransomees keep their gear.

Made me think of musical chairs at Nancy Astor’s.

Spoiler

As well as being the first woman MP (elected in 1919), Astor was a legendary hostess. To this particular dinner party she invited various League of Nations delegates, the American and Russian ambassadors, an assortment of English friends and Hitler’s ‘ambassador-at-large’, Joachim von Ribbentrop. She placed Ribbentrop next to her at dinner. After the meal, she announced some party games, whispering to the English guests that they must let the Germans win.
— Bee Wilson, London Review of Books Vol. 34 No. 24

I am with @Squaredeal Sten on this one: if the bandits have attacked you precisely to relieve you of your valuable gear, they are not going to ransom it back for your paltry price, and if in war the enemy capture you to get hold of the part you were transporting for your side’s new superweapon, they are not going to give it back. The world has robbers as well as kidnappers, and nothing should be ransomed at less than its value (unless the captors don’t know its value). If the sorts of NPCs who won’t let you leave with Mournblade are the sorts who don’t respect ransoms at all, then we may slide back toward PCs fighting to the death, no?

This is not to say that PCs shouldn’t in the normal course of things be ransomed with:

• their ordinary gear and pocket change;
• ordinary/weakly magical weapons and armour, if the PCs seem trustworthy.

In addition:

• you can maybe have some of your cash back — “We keep a quarter and you don’t come after us”;
• special items can have their own ransoms — “The temple will pay a thousand lunars for this chalice”;
• some things the captors will insist you take with you — “The red eye of the little trollish god? I wouldn’t keep it for all the tea in Kralorela!”

[Malin]

I really do love the idea of "legendary weapons" heirlooms or magical items having their own ransom. Though I suppose if I was a bandit, I wouldn't keep anything that made me worry that whoever I had caught would be coming after me to get it back. Sure, I'll keep the pack animals, but that named steed with the expensive tack? Hmmm too risky.

[mfbrandi]

2 hours ago, Malin said:

I suppose if I was a bandit, I wouldn't keep anything that made me worry that whoever I had caught would be coming after me to get it back.

On the other hand, people who won’t be stolen from like good little boys and girls and who insist on raising posses to get all their shiny stuff back will get themselves a reputation — bandits will no longer be prepared to ransom them or let them go. Of course, sometimes PCs will hunt down the people who ransomed them back — to recover toys or dignity — and that is fine, but it might have consequences.

Perhaps sometimes tip off players as to whether the bandits are eyeing up their goodies (robbers) or just trying to calculate their personal ransoms (kidnappers). And ransom from bandits plays out differently from ransom in war or after a diplomatic incident … maybe???

[1d8+DB]

I suspect there's a quite a bit of importance attached to  who specifically you're fighting.

Tribal Enemies, enemies from within your home culture (in the default setting this would be Sartarites). 

Out of Tribe enemies, enemies from foreign cultures (in the default setting this would most likely be Lunars).

And  'Enemies of All'; bandits, oath-breakers, and the Chaos-tainted.

In the latter it would be straight up 'Murder Hobo' time: kill them, and if they have anything that won't give me a disease or poison my soul with Chaos, take it.

Out of Tribe Enemies would involve personal ransoms, but not necessarily equipment; though much captured equipment might end as a temple offering (no self-respecting Thane is going to want to be seen wearing a khopesh!). 

For Tribal Enemies there's probably a lengthy period of negotiation before the combat;  how long will we fight, what are the boundaries of the battle-field, who are the healers. Part of this negotiation might involve staking 'prizes'. 'If we lose you get two mounts of your choice, and their tack. And if you lose we get Tarrek's  bronze greaves and vambraces,  and the 'Ever Plentiful Jug'. In some cases the 'prize' might be in the form of promises or favors, or even reputation bonuses: 'Tell the next three people you meet how we defeated you this day.'

Edited March 10 by 1d8+DB
grammar

[mfbrandi]

13 hours ago, 1d8+DB said:

the Chaos-tainted … kill them, and if they have anything that won't give me a disease or poison my soul with Chaos, take it.

[emphasis mine]

That is the nub of it, though — can you loot anything from Chaos creatures you have murdered without exposing yourself to the threat of Chaos taint? Wouldn’t it amount to living off immoral earnings, “nurturing oneself on chaos”? If one subscribes to the superstition of the Chaos taint, then Chaotics are the last people one should kill to take their stuff. It is not that there is anything wrong with the stuff in itself, it is the provenance of the stuff that is the problem.

And if you are making lists of people it is OK to kill to take their stuff, your soul may already be poisoned — not necessarily with Chaos, but poisoned all the same.

Edited March 11 by mfbrandi

[Joerg]

17 hours ago, Malin said:

I really do love the idea of "legendary weapons" heirlooms or magical items having their own ransom. Though I suppose if I was a bandit, I wouldn't keep anything that made me worry that whoever I had caught would be coming after me to get it back. Sure, I'll keep the pack animals, but that named steed with the expensive tack? Hmmm too risky.

One thing that is of some importance in my understanding of Glorantha is that a lot of the equipment carried by the adventurers won't be theirs to give away as they please, but would be the property of the household they belong to, or the clan, or the cult, or the leader they swore service to, or loaned by the quest-giver.

[mfbrandi]

31 minutes ago, Joerg said:

a lot of the equipment carried by the adventurers won't be theirs to give away

Even better!

The cult writes to the captured cultist:

• It has been a tough year, and there is not a lot of silver left in the temple treasury. Frankly, we cannot afford to ransom you and that iron armour we loaned you. Wrap it carefully for transport. See you in the next life.
• PS: There is a prayer enclosed for your captors to read over your body.
• PPS: If we had been just a little more cash-strapped, we wouldn’t have been able to afford to ransom the armour, so you could have come home after all. It’s a funny old world.

[PhilHibbs]

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

[emphasis mine]

That is the nub of it, though — can you loot anything from Chaos creatures you have murdered without exposing yourself to the threat of Chaos taint? Wouldn’t it amount to living off immoral earnings, “nurturing oneself on chaos”?

No, if the loot does not itself carry a chaotic taint, then there's no problem. I suppose chaos can taint mundane physical objects, but I think it's unusual. You have to be careful with diseases and Broo loot.

1 hour ago, mfbrandi said:

And if you are making lists of people it is OK to kill to take their stuff, your soul may already be poisoned — not necessarily with Chaos, but poisoned all the same.

I think you can go too far applying modern western liberal sensibilities to other societies. And in any case, most adventuring parties aren't just looking for rich people to kill and rob, there's usually some pretext for "hunting the monsters" or "taking down the bad guys".