Lanbril and Consecrate Rune spell

[Zalain]

Hello all,

 

In pg 115 of Lightbringers book, Rune Magic: the cult provides all common rune magic except "consecrate": does it implies the thief has to return to his haunt (assuming its a shrine/temple) to recover his Rune Points?

And: the only rune spells avaiable for thieves are Divination Block and Dismiss (elemental)? WHat sense does it have dissmiss a elemental and not be able to summon it? (what sense does it have a thief can be summon/dismiss elemental?)

Maybe those questions seems a bit silly, but im creating a Lanbril thief, and maybe its not a good choice if the campaing is in other cites different of his own.

 

thank you in advance!!!

[Nick Brooke]

Simplest explanation: the Lanbril cult steals already-sanctified holy places that belonged to other gods.

[Zalain]

3 minutes ago, Nick Brooke said:

Simplest explanation: the Lanbril cult steals already-sanctified holy places that belonged to other gods.

But to recover Lanbrils Rune Points, doesnt the thief need a consecrate place to Lanbril himself?

 

(well, could be a great idea that a Lanbril thief could use shrines from other gods and the bonus he takes to "Worship Lanbril" comes from the things the thief steals of objects/animals sacrified to their gods)

[David Scott]

18 hours ago, Zalain said:

Hello all,

In pg 115 of Lightbringers book, Rune Magic: the cult provides all common rune magic except "consecrate": does it implies the thief has to return to his haunt (assuming its a shrine/temple) to recover his Rune Points?

They don't have Sanctify (RBM 76) - which creates an area that can be used temporarily as a temple. Initiates will need to return to their Ring leader's refuge -  as The temple is both a worship site and a refuge (LB 115). Lanbril is a criminal ring, not a cult for solo thieves. 

18 hours ago, Zalain said:

And: the only rune spells available for thieves are Divination Block and Dismiss (elemental)?

And Dismiss Magic, Divination, Extension, Find Enemy, Heal Wound, Multispell, Spirit Block, and Warding. Plus Dismiss Elemental (specific type, small or medium) and Divination Block. (per LB 115).

18 hours ago, Zalain said:

WHat sense does it have dissmiss a elemental and not be able to summon it? (what sense does it have a thief can be summon/dismiss elemental?)

Dismiss elemental is very handy when you realise that the Pavis cult in Pavis (the centre of a large Lanbril cult) can summon elementals. Elementals are very useful for guarding things. Put an elemental into a binding enchantment on a chest, add the condition of if not opened by the caster - release the elemental. 

18 hours ago, Zalain said:

Maybe those questions seems a bit silly, but im creating a Lanbril thief, and maybe its not a good choice if the campaing is in other cites different of his own.

They will need to ingratiate themselves with the local ringleader. I'd use the lay member interview (LB 112) and CHA x 5 plus their reputation. Don't make it harder for the player than it need be.

[radmonger]

17 hours ago, Zalain said:

But to recover Lanbrils Rune Points, doesnt the thief need a consecrate place to Lanbril himself?

Any associated cult would work. Unfortunately, Lanbril has none.

I think in some of the Lunar provinces Orlanth is mostly a cult of thieves and bandits, who occasionally claim to be rebels. So the idea of stealing access to a worship site is more suited to that version of Orlanth, given his many associates.

 

 

[Austin]

On 4/6/2024 at 11:11 AM, Nick Brooke said:

Simplest explanation: the Lanbril cult steals already-sanctified holy places that belonged to other gods.

Ooh, I like that. Yoink!

[Jens]

Enter Dino Vercotti, Master Thief and Luigi Vercotti, Rune Priest of Lanbril. "You've got a nice temple here, Padre. We wouldn't want anything to happen to it."

[Rodney Dangerduck]

Lanbril was, and still is, in desperate need of updating to reflect the RQG rules.

Edited April 13 by Rodney Dangerduck

[Darius West]

I love the idea that Lanbril initiates and rune levels can use any temple, because they steal RP from other gods.  It makes up for the fact that they have so much trouble getting the necessary numbers for a shrine or temple.

[Akhôrahil]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:38 PM, Zalain said:

And: the only rune spells avaiable for thieves are Divination Block and Dismiss (elemental)? WHat sense does it have dissmiss a elemental and not be able to summon it? (what sense does it have a thief can be summon/dismiss elemental?)

Elementals are often used as temple guardians.

[ChrisWentWhere]

While the Lanbril thief in the campaign I was running was undercover in Sandheart (tracking down someone to 'deliver a message'), I had the Boss take him under his wing and suggest he invest in a little votive statue. It was proving impractical otherwise. Of course that meant he owed the Boss a bit more and was a bit more under his thumb, but hey, them's the breaks.

I have also been running the Lanbrils doing occasional Heroquest Heists where they manage to sneak into temples in the middle of a ceremony and effectively steal some Rune Points, which was an idea I obviously stole from here! Probably a bit off piste, but quite good fun!       

[Akhôrahil]

Since Issaries has Spell Trading, I think it would make sense to give Lanbril Spell Stealing (obviously at some difficulty).

[Professor Chaos]

On 4/12/2024 at 8:15 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

Lanbril was, and still is, in desperate need of updating to reflect the RQG rules.

Indeed it does - and if this not so much poor but not editing is to continue to be a thing I will not be buying physical copies of these books.

[glarkhag]

On 4/6/2024 at 5:11 PM, Nick Brooke said:

Simplest explanation: the Lanbril cult steals already-sanctified holy places that belonged to other gods.

i'd say the simplest explanation is it's an oversight...

[glarkhag]

On 4/7/2024 at 11:02 AM, David Scott said:

They don't have Sanctify (RBM 76) - which creates an area that can be used temporarily as a temple. Initiates will need to return to their Ring leader's refuge -  as The temple is both a worship site and a refuge (LB 115). Lanbril is a criminal ring, not a cult for solo thieves.

Sanctify is not a temporal spell.

I always have assumed that Temples are sanctified using this spell - but do others play this differently? How do you "sanctify" a new site, shrine or temple?

[David Scott]

26 minutes ago, glarkhag said:

How do you "sanctify" a new site, shrine or temple?

Cast sanctify on it. If it's correctly built and has the appropriate symbols, idols and enough worshippers, consecrate it (big ceremony) on an appropriate High Holy day. Cast sanctify on it, have the High Priest add in some POW (to enchant it), and repeat for a few years. If it's all done right, the link to the god will be permanent with enough worshippers. See also Qualify to Found Own Temple of the Cult, Mythology 148 / RQG 282.

If you've Weapons and Equipment, see

• Site 107
• Shrine 110
• Temple 110

[glarkhag]

23 minutes ago, David Scott said:

Cast sanctify on it. If it's correctly built and has the appropriate symbols, idols and enough worshippers, consecrate it (big ceremony) on an appropriate High Holy day. Cast sanctify on it, have the High Priest add in some POW (to enchant it), and repeat for a few years. If it's all done right, the link to the god will be permanent with enough worshippers. See also Qualify to Found Own Temple of the Cult, Mythology 148 / RQG 282.

If you've Weapons and Equipment, see

• Site 107
• Shrine 110
• Temple 110

thanks.  W&E doesn't actually say how the priest consecrates it and interestingly the wording of sanctify makes me infer that temples are done differently because it allows you do to things usually only done in a temple.  However, it was a rhetorical question really. If temples need sanctify then the explanation that you need to go back to the gang temple doesn't hold water because that temple would need to be sanctified. And if the intent was you stole temples from other gods then surely a "Temple Squatters" ritual would have been added to their special spell list.

My money is on it's an oversight.  It makes me think of a scene in Reservoir Dogs where an orange balloon floats across the road.  Tarantino when asked about it says it wasn't an intended bit of mis-en-scene but chose to leave it in and let film nerds over-analyse it's meaning. Sometimes things are just mistakes. 🙂

[glarkhag]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

... have the High Priest add in some POW (to enchant it)...

I wouldn't require POW enchantment to make this permanent. Sanctify is not temporal and therefore I infer it's instant and permanent. So if you don't need perm POW to set up a link to the deity for a sanctified spot I don't see why it would make sense for a larger sanctified spot (which - given I am an advocate of using sanctify for all religious spots that do not hold over a religious link from the god time - includes shrines, temples of all sizes). As time goes on and the shrine turns into a minor temple you would need to sanctify more ground in a ritual to cover the enlarged area that upgrading inevitably brings and so on.

The other priest's role, IMO, is a middle-world-cult-hierarchy-politics thing rather than a magical thing.

Edited May 19 by glarkhag
hit save too soon!

[David Scott]

4 hours ago, glarkhag said:

Sanctify is not temporal and therefore I infer it's instant and permanent.

FYI

Sanctify is a Ritual spell: Ritual spells generally take one hour to cast per point of the spell. (Red Book of Magic, Characteristics of Rune Spells, page 9)

When the ceremonies cease, the spell effects expire. (Red Book of Magic, Sanctify, page 76)

[glarkhag]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

FYI

Sanctify is a Ritual spell: Ritual spells generally take one hour to cast per point of the spell. (Red Book of Magic, Characteristics of Rune Spells, page 9)

When the ceremonies cease, the spell effects expire. (Red Book of Magic, Sanctify, page 76)

Oh joy, the core spells were updated in the Red Book of Magic. pff. Well that changes everything!  🙂   Enchanting with POW definitely seems right on that basis (almost like a one-use version of Sanctify). I always assumed if warding was effectively permanent then sanctify would be too but I suppose taking it to extremes over hundred of years all of Genertela would have been sanctified by now. Anyone want to work out how many RPs that would need?

The ritual for the reusable version will take a variable amount of time though depending on the ceremony being performed. Worship is a full day thing for example.

Edited May 19 by glarkhag
add line about warding