Observations of the Lunar Way Cults.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

5 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

do they?
I guess I'm more on the lunar side so I imagine palying as a jakaleel cultist more than fighting them.

Even when you are on the Lunar side, Jakalleli are creepy and possible antagonists.  🙂 

But fun to play as a PC.  Believe me - we played a variety of Lunar characters for ~20 years.

[davecake]

2 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

But fun to play as a PC.

And villain and PC are hardly incompatible. If I meant antagonist I'd have said that.

[Professor Chaos]

Also find the Lunar cults underpowered from a purely gaming POV - and they already were significantly nerfed by cyclical magic. 

And yes I take Nick's point about initiates not getting all the powers a deity demonstrated but also aren't initiates and better supposed to emulate their deity? 

Hon-eel conquered kingdoms, slaughtered nomads and founded noble houses that still dominate much of the Empire but her cult is presented here as The Corn Lady.

Also I really do feel here far more than in the Lightbringers and Earth books how problematic it is trying to cram what are supposed to be radical, protean and norm-breaking cults into the rigid Gods book format. 

But YGWV and there is nothing to stop us as players from using these write-ups as the basis for further developed cults that we can justify as local variants.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Professor Chaos]

On 5/23/2024 at 7:10 PM, Rodney Dangerduck said:

I think Yanafal is a success.  And I really like His gifts and geases, because they are simple and (largely) logical, with little need for a GM to interpret. 

 

That at least 10% of Yanafal initiates and a way, way higher percentage of Rune Lords have Chaos Features BUT cannot associate with Chaos is kind of major though given that Lunar commanders allying with Chaos used to be a pretty major theme.

So now any random Lunar unit might now include an otherwise ordinary member that can spit acid, breathe fire or explode on death...

Also let's not forget that even Chaos Gift still has a 5% chance of getting a Curse of Thed instead - so anyone initiating into Yanafal has a 0.5% chance of something really unpleasant happening to them.

This really should have been a d20 table.

EDIT: OK text does suggest you can choose the gift - in which case why is it a D10 table?

Edited May 25 by Professor Chaos

[Professor Chaos]

Although I do very much like the idea of Tiny Titus the Lunar Centurion who fell foul of the 2D6 SIZ loss curse bellowing squeakily at you...   

[Professor Chaos]

And having a luckless sidekick who attracts every spell anyone casts at you does seem very Lunar and I can now visualise a whole special unit of cursed and unusually blessed Yanafali...

 

 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

34 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

That at least 10% of Yanafal initiates and a way, way higher percentage of Rune Lords have Chaos Features

As I noted elsewhere, the Gift / Geas is a choice, not a random die roll.  Choose Chaos Gift only if you feel lucky, or are willing to "tear up" the character and roll again.

[Professor Chaos]

'Jakaleel provides allied spirits to her Witches. They are bound into Darkness creatures such as bats or dogs'.

Have dogs always been darkness creatures or is this new? 

And why go for a bat or a dog when you can have a giant centipede or spider? 

[Professor Chaos]

39 minutes ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

As I noted elsewhere, the Gift / Geas is a choice, not a random die roll.  Choose Chaos Gift only if you feel lucky, or are willing to "tear up" the character and roll again.

In any case either the text or that 'D10' in the table are wrong.  

And Humakt's gifts (and Yanafal has gifts because he was originally a Humakti and replaces Humakt in the Lunar pantheon) are chosen from a list of just 14 but his geases are random.

So it is arguably an errata issue.

 

 

[theconfusingeel]

27 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

 

Have dogs always been darkness creatures or is this new? 

 

Jajagappa ois both a darkness god and god of dogs, so it's probably been like that for a while.
question is, does this make dogs insects like how horses are birds?

[David Scott]

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

way higher percentage of Rune Lords have Chaos Features BUT cannot associate with Chaos is kind of major though given that Lunar commanders allying with Chaos used to be a pretty major theme.

It just says mistrust not cannot associate with Chaos. That Yanafal is a subcult of the Seven Mothers, does give a lot of scope. 

 

[Professor Chaos]

9 minutes ago, David Scott said:

It just says mistrust not cannot associate with Chaos. That Yanafal is a subcult of the Seven Mothers, does give a lot of scope. 

 

Ah!

But does anyone - least of all chaos cultists and creatures themselves - trust Chaos?

[Professor Chaos]

14 minutes ago, theconfusingeel said:

Jajagappa ois both a darkness god and god of dogs, so it's probably been like that for a while.
question is, does this make dogs insects like how horses are birds?

Yes I'd forgotten Katrin's wonderful picture of Jajagappa and his doggies in the prosopaedia... 

So dogs are darkness creatures and cats aren't?

 

[Professor Chaos]

So given how ubiquitous Mindblast is as a Lunar offensive and defensive spell and that on average every victim has a 3.5% (D6) chance of illumination at the next Sacred Time aren't there going to be staunch anti-Lunar fighters who become illuminated without even hearing a single riddle? 

[Squaredeal Sten]

18 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

So given how ubiquitous Mindblast is as a Lunar offensive and defensive spell and that on average every victim has a 3.5% (D6) chance of illumination at the next Sacred Time aren't there going to be staunch anti-Lunar fighters who become illuminated without even hearing a single riddle? 

No side of a D6 gives a 3.5% chance. RBOM page 65 does not say Mindblast produces any chance of illumination.   Would you mind explaining your reasoning in greater detail?

Edited May 26 by Squaredeal Sten
Spelling / typing

[theconfusingeel]

11 minutes ago, Professor Chaos said:

So given how ubiquitous Mindblast is as a Lunar offensive and defensive spell and that on average every victim has a 3.5% (D6) chance of illumination at the next Sacred Time aren't there going to be staunch anti-Lunar fighters who become illuminated without even hearing a single riddle? 

Probably, thought for most non-lunars, who don't seek out illumination, it would probably cause permanent insanity, and even if it didn't they wouldn't realise what possibilities it provides.

[theconfusingeel]

I hope the next book has writing that reaches the level of "arcane fornimancy"

[Jens]

42 minutes ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

Would you mind explaining your reasoning in greater detail?

It's part of the Illumination rules, page 95 of The Lunar Way.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

3 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Also find the Lunar cults underpowered from a purely gaming POV

I generally agree.

Not sure about IOT because I don't grok sorcery.

And Jakaleel looks very powerful at first glance.

Also, I suspect that there are ways of combining membership in multiple lunar cults to create "gaming power", or at least very interesting PCs, through symbiosis.  That is the Lunar Way.  To be discovered in game play...

[Joerg]

1 hour ago, Professor Chaos said:

Yes I'd forgotten Katrin's wonderful picture of Jajagappa and his doggies in the prosopaedia... 

So dogs are darkness creatures and cats aren't?

Yinkin is god of shadowcats.

[Jason Farrell]

7 hours ago, Professor Chaos said:

Also find the Lunar cults underpowered from a purely gaming POV - and they already were significantly nerfed by cyclical magic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I often get the impression that the braintrust would prefer that RQ players all play as Orlanth and Ernalda worshippers.  It's not just lack of support/balance for other options, but outright statements over the years along the lines that "90% (or whatever) of people in Dragon Pass/Sartar worship either Orlanth or Ernalda" when anyone is talking about other cults not having certain spells, etc. 

[Professor Chaos]

16 hours ago, Squaredeal Sten said:

No side of a D6 gives a 3.5% chance. RBOM page 65 does not say Mindbladt produces any chance of illumination.   Would you mind explaining your reasoning in greater detail?

3.5 is the average of a d6 - but actually the chance will be significantly higher than that if as is very likely the target (who is going to be an enemy dangerous enough to merit spending rune points to put down) also has a magic bonus as that is added to the ST Illumination roll...

Edited May 26 by Scotty
Please do not post chunks of our publications per the Fan Material Policy

[Professor Chaos]

1 hour ago, Jason Farrell said:

I often get the impression that the braintrust would prefer that RQ players all play as Orlanth and Ernalda worshippers.  It's not just lack of support/balance for other options, but outright statements over the years along the lines that "90% (or whatever) of people in Dragon Pass/Sartar worship either Orlanth or Ernalda" when anyone is talking about other cults not having certain spells, etc. 

TBF the game that no longer has a name did centre its Orlanthi material far more on Orlanth and Ernalda who between them had a book-full of cults and sub-cults while all the other lightbringers etc were squeezed into one other book.

But quite the opposite applies to RQG where many cults and sub-cults have disappeared completely and every remaining cult needs to be written up in the same format however inappropriate it is.  

So Chaosium are now stuck on a supplement mill for several more years producing more and more cults books dedicated to cults that will become less and less relevant and useful to players. 

But a return to RQ was what the market - including myself - wanted and are paying handsomely for. 

 

 

[Squaredeal Sten]

5 hours ago, Jens said:

It's part of the Illumination rules, page 95 of The Lunar Way.

That is a one time boost to illumination chance for the victim of those spells.  OK. your point was about "staunch anti Lunar fighters: - but the stauncher they are, the more likely they will win the POW vs POW roll, and / or will have magical protection. So your average 3.5% roll is a lower chance in practise.

Also  not all Lunar cults offer those spells.  Neither Yanafal Tarnils nor Yara Aranis do, and they are the most likely military opponents.  Teelo Norri doesn't. Hon-Eel doesn't. But Seven .Mothers initiates do get them at 5 and 7 years, which indicates to me that the missionary cult  is especially likely to produce this type of involuntary illumination.  I admit that is a surprise to me.  Irripi Ontor does. which shouldn't surprise me because they provide the sorcerors to the College of Magic.  

I am not inclined to apply this to newly generated Adventurers whose rolled  history includes being driven mad by Lunar magic.

So all right, I accept the point that there will be thousands of such illuminates as a result of the Hero Wars.  Most of them ordinary young fyrd members who were in a big battle with minimum magical protection and low POW..  

We have been cautioned not to assume that the rules of the game for players  are the nature of Glorantha in general.  But there is no way I can tell when that applies.

 

 

[metcalph]

To expand on any Lunar Hearts-and-Minds strategy, it might be easier to use a Lunae instead because those can cause Madness repeatedly without visiting the Temple and are available to most Lunar cults.

On the subject of the Broo Yanfali, the chance to become a Broo only kicks in on the subsequent chaotic feature.  But a Yanafali can't use the Yanfali gifts to get that for that gift comes with a non-repeatable geas of always mistrust non-cult chaos.  

What's interesting is that the +10% in any cult skill comes with the geas of not to be used outside regimental use.  Considering that one of the skills is Scan, this could lead to Sergeant Schultz type situations.