Elementals Attacking

[Bohemond]

I was looking at the rules for elementals last night (RQ Bestiary, p. 176-82) and I noticed that in the descriptions of their various attacks, there is no mention of a skill roll or percentage for their attacks. In the case of Dehori and Lunes, they have to make a role to determine the degree of effectiveness of their attack, but otherwise their attack just automatically succeeds. Am I reading this correctly--there's no way the target can dodge the attack or otherwise defend themselves? That seems extremely powerful. 

[Bill the barbarian]

if they “envelope" their prey, yes. See the particular entity and its size for more info.

 

[Akhôrahil]

4 hours ago, Bohemond said:

I was looking at the rules for elementals last night (RQ Bestiary, p. 176-82) and I noticed that in the descriptions of their various attacks, there is no mention of a skill roll or percentage for their attacks. In the case of Dehori and Lunes, they have to make a role to determine the degree of effectiveness of their attack, but otherwise their attack just automatically succeeds. Am I reading this correctly--there's no way the target can dodge the attack or otherwise defend themselves? That seems extremely powerful. 

The downside for elementals is that they're super fragile (a bit of a surprise for Earth elementals in particular, but that's how it is).

No defensive skills, no armor and attacking at SR 12 means they go down very easily.

[David Scott]

20 hours ago, Bohemond said:

I was looking at the rules for elementals last night (RQ Bestiary, p. 176-82) and I noticed that in the descriptions of their various attacks, there is no mention of a skill roll or percentage for their attacks. In the case of Dehori and Lunes, they have to make a role to determine the degree of effectiveness of their attack, but otherwise their attack just automatically succeeds. Am I reading this correctly--there's no way the target can dodge the attack or otherwise defend themselves? That seems extremely powerful. 

Note that Adventurers can outrun any of these elementals (selene if they can see it). If they have not declared they are running away in the SoI, they are then attacked on SR12. My players figured this out very quickly. There's always a resistance roll, which can of course be augmented.

• Air elemental: STR vs. STR, then if successful roll for falling damage
• Darkness elemental: POW vs. CON, then if successful roll for fearshock
• Earth elemental: STR vs. STR, then if successful roll for damage if it has a damage bonus
• Fire elemental: 3D6 vs. CON, then if successful the damage rolled is applied to general hit points
• Lunes:  POW vs. POW, then if successful roll on the Madness table.
• Selene: POW vs. POW, then if successful HP and MP loss. 
• Water elemental: Target rolls CONx5, then if unsuccessful roll for damage. 

[Geoff R Evil]

In my game I decided elementals can only be hit by magical damage. Otherwise they are too slow and weak to be worth having rune points sunk into them, except as utility services….not to undermine that, my PCs used an Earth elemental very usefully to burrow out of a dungeon, sylph very useful for flying across walls etc.

and yes I do allow jump or dodge as a way to try and avoid elemental attempts to envelope you…assuming there is room to allow that.

[Akhôrahil]

12 hours ago, Geoff R Evil said:

In my game I decided elementals can only be hit by magical damage. Otherwise they are too slow and weak to be worth having rune points sunk into them, except as utility services….not to undermine that, my PCs used an Earth elemental very usefully to burrow out of a dungeon, sylph very useful for flying across walls etc.

and yes I do allow jump or dodge as a way to try and avoid elemental attempts to envelope you…assuming there is room to allow that.

Agree that elementals are mostly about utility (although Shades are both sneaky and super dangerous).

I would be wary about magical damage only, though - it means elementals are immune to huge but mundane opponents, like dinosaurs and giants.

Edited September 5 by Akhôrahil

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Akhôrahil said:

although Shades are both sneaky and super dangerous

One of the PC's in my game had a bound shade and used that to block an entrance in order to escape from attacking scorpionmen. Quite effective.

I've also had a shade bound into a room that PC's entered, one suffered fearshock and fled the whole building. It took a PC casting an Illusionary Sight spell of a bright light to defeat that shade. 

[Saki]

Question on Elementals - is there guidelines anywhere for what their "natural inclinations" would be in the case where a PC fails to Command them after summoning?

[Runeblogger]

53 minutes ago, Saki said:

Question on Elementals - is there guidelines anywhere for what their "natural inclinations" would be in the case where a PC fails to Command them after summoning?

Fire elementals try to burn flammable materials close by (your clothes if there is nothing bigger), water elementals try to flow back into rivers and ponds, or drown you if there is no way out, shades try to scare you and return to darkness, Earth elementals… try to stabilize things and sink back into the earth, and Moon elementals… try to… errr… illuminate the surrounding area and make random people crazy.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

12 hours ago, jajagappa said:

One of the PC's in my game had a bound shade and used that to block an entrance in order to escape from attacking scorpionmen. Quite effective.

I've also had a shade bound into a room that PC's entered, one suffered fearshock and fled the whole building. It took a PC casting an Illusionary Sight spell of a bright light to defeat that shade. 

Very clever and creative.  Shades can be nasty.

1) What intensity spell did you require for a "bright light"?

2) How did you interpret "This spell creates a visual illusion which registers upon light-sensitive organs." with regard to a Shade?

Edited September 6 by Rodney Dangerduck

[jajagappa]

14 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

1) What intensity spell did you require for a "bright light"?

2) How did you interpret "This spell creates a visual illusion which registers upon light-sensitive organs." with regard to a Shade?

I don't recall the details, but it was such a creative use of an Illusion that I just decided it should just destroy the shade (i.e. its whole substance is a "light-sensitive organ"). 

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 9/5/2024 at 10:21 AM, Saki said:

Question on Elementals - is there guidelines anywhere for what their "natural inclinations" would be in the case where a PC fails to Command them after summoning?

Condider not only their natural inclinations, but also their descriptions.  For example the Earth elmental is described as a swirling disturbance in the earth: "looks like a whirlpool or pulse in the earth itself". It does need suitable soil to be really dangerous, not soft loam.  On the other hand you can't summon one in solid rock.

 So if you summon one under someone's feet, they are going to lose their footing and sink into the earth.  its attack is described as opening a pit beneath the foe  and engulfing him, burying him if the Elemental is deep enough.

No control spell  is needed to put the victim in a bad position.  You only need a control spell to chase someone down,  or to go after multiple victims, or carry someone away. 

A simple summoning could also undermine and weaken a wall, though with a control spell you could move foundation stones away and also move the Elemental along the wall to create a wider breach.

 

Edited September 8 by Squaredeal Sten
fat fingering the virtual keys

[Geoff R Evil]

Fair point @Squaredeal Sten coz the cost of control spells, usually rune, means elementals can be hard to justify using vs other rune point use. Also if for example you summon a shade on top of someone they are likely to assume they are to be attacked and attack first, meaning the shade will engage in combat to defend itself without being commanded.

what is cool is the ability to control an elemental tends to need elemental runic alignment, so at least they are unlikely to be turned against you if summoned vs elemental enemies. You have been warned summoning that sylph versus fellow orlanthi for example.