Zebraman1 Posted September 7 Share Posted September 7 My players have just arrived in Boldhome and as such I have been re-reading the Rough Guide to Boldhome from the Jonstown Compendium. I was wondering if there is any more information or even interesting theories about the (dream) dragon that arises in 1602ST to help the Sartarite defenders and destroy the Crimson Bat? Am I missing something; Was there some specific foreshadowing as to the Dragon rising to help in 1602ST? Also is there any indication of which True Dragon the dream dragon of Boldhome belongs to? (The Brown Dragon of 1625 perhaps?). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 9 hours ago, Zebraman1 said: My players have just arrived in Boldhome and as such I have been re-reading the Rough Guide to Boldhome from the Jonstown Compendium. I was wondering if there is any more information or even interesting theories about the (dream) dragon that arises in 1602ST to help the Sartarite defenders and destroy the Crimson Bat? Am I missing something; Was there some specific foreshadowing as to the Dragon rising to help in 1602ST? Also is there any indication of which True Dragon the dream dragon of Boldhome belongs to? (The Brown Dragon of 1625 perhaps?). I don't think a mere dream dragon could have destroyed off the Crimson Bat. Its appearance would have given rise to rumours about the Fourth Dragon of Dragon Pass (Guide p78-79) 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 14 hours ago, Zebraman1 said: Was there some specific foreshadowing as to the Dragon rising to help in 1602ST? No, it was an unexpected surprise. 14 hours ago, Zebraman1 said: is there any indication of which True Dragon the dream dragon of Boldhome belongs to? (The Brown Dragon of 1625 perhaps?). The texts just indicate a dragon, not whether True or dream. It's not the Brown Dragon since its awakening would have been clearly noted (as happened in 1625). We don't know how large a dream dragon might be nor do we know where other dragons might rest/sleep (and otherwise appear as part of the landscape). Dragons are enigmatic, mysterious, and surprising in whatever form they come in. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 My guess would be the Inhuman King as source of that 1602 dragon. 5 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebraman1 Posted September 8 Author Share Posted September 8 15 hours ago, metcalph said: I don't think a mere dream dragon could have destroyed off the Crimson Bat. Its appearance would have given rise to rumours about the Fourth Dragon of Dragon Pass (Guide p78-79) This was my original thinking as well but while doing my research I came across this article where @Jeff notes it was indeed a dream dragon. https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-crimson-bat/ 6 hours ago, Joerg said: My guess would be the Inhuman King as source of that 1602 dragon. Now this is an interesting idea. It also curious that Dragonnewts are said to have aided the Lunars and stormed the gates of Boldhome. I guess I'm surprised that the Lunars didn't do more investigations after the fall of Boldhome to discover what draconic powers were aiding the Sartarites and why. Especially considering what happened 20 years later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted September 8 Share Posted September 8 7 hours ago, Joerg said: My guess would be the Inhuman King as source of that 1602 dragon. That makes sense - and not just as the source, but possibly is/was the Inhuman King transformed into its True Dragon self. (Might even have been its utuma/release). 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muwatallis Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 Option 1: The Crimson Bat flew over an as yet unknown true Dragon on the way to Boldhome giving it nightmares. The Dragon dreamt up a dream dragon to eliminate the source of the nightmares. This had the side effect of involving the dragons of Dragon Pass in mundane politics by helping the Sartarites over the Lunar Empire. The Inhuman King acted to eliminate the debt to the Lunar Empire implied by this through sending Dragonnewt warriors to help sack Boldhome. Option 2: The Lunar Empire had some way of calling on the Dragonnewts to assist with their conquest of Boldhome that the Dragonnewts were compelled to comply with. This had the side effect of involving the dragons of Dragon Pass in mundane politics and created a debt owed by the Dragons to the Sartarites. The Inhuman King manifested a Dream Dragon to eat the Crimson bat to eliminate this debt and the associated entanglements with the material world. Option 3: Ouroborous - both options 1 and 2 are simultaneously what happened. But note that the dream dragon was destroyed/disappeared in eating the Bat leading me to believe that the motivation is grounded in keep the dragons uninvolved in material things (by balancing the consequences of any accidental involvement). Cheers, Muwatallis 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Biles Posted September 10 Share Posted September 10 30 minutes ago, Muwatallis said: Option 1: The Crimson Bat flew over an as yet unknown true Dragon on the way to Boldhome giving it nightmares. The Dragon dreamt up a dream dragon to eliminate the source of the nightmares. This had the side effect of involving the dragons of Dragon Pass in mundane politics by helping the Sartarites over the Lunar Empire. The Inhuman King acted to eliminate the debt to the Lunar Empire implied by this through sending Dragonnewt warriors to help sack Boldhome. I like option 1, as it doesn't involve having to invent as much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebraman1 Posted September 10 Author Share Posted September 10 7 hours ago, Muwatallis said: Option 1: The Crimson Bat flew over an as yet unknown true Dragon on the way to Boldhome giving it nightmares. The Dragon dreamt up a dream dragon to eliminate the source of the nightmares. This had the side effect of involving the dragons of Dragon Pass in mundane politics by helping the Sartarites over the Lunar Empire. The Inhuman King acted to eliminate the debt to the Lunar Empire implied by this through sending Dragonnewt warriors to help sack Boldhome. Option 2: The Lunar Empire had some way of calling on the Dragonnewts to assist with their conquest of Boldhome that the Dragonnewts were compelled to comply with. This had the side effect of involving the dragons of Dragon Pass in mundane politics and created a debt owed by the Dragons to the Sartarites. The Inhuman King manifested a Dream Dragon to eat the Crimson bat to eliminate this debt and the associated entanglements with the material world. Option 3: Ouroborous - both options 1 and 2 are simultaneously what happened. But note that the dream dragon was destroyed/disappeared in eating the Bat leading me to believe that the motivation is grounded in keep the dragons uninvolved in material things (by balancing the consequences of any accidental involvement). Cheers, Muwatallis I really like these ideas. Could option 3 be The Dragonnewts owed a debt to the Lunar Empire. The Crimson Bat would have been able to subdue Boldhome by itself. Thus the Inhuman King manifests the Dragon to destroy the Bat. Therefore meaning the Dragonnewts are needed to storm the city and can fulfill their debt. Or is that too devious/complying with the letter not the spirit of a debt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Wednesday at 09:35 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 09:35 PM (edited) On 9/8/2024 at 11:16 AM, Joerg said: My guess would be the Inhuman King as source of that 1602 dragon. Is there any source that the Inhuman King (the White Dragon) transformed during Dragon Kill and or any other time... I like the idea it was what attacked the Bat in 1602. It gives a perfect out for any PC's who happen to be fighting as the clash of titans would surely distract most of those engaged in combat due to the scale of it. I'll use this for sure. Nice post Zebraman. Edited Wednesday at 11:30 PM by Erol of Backford 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted Thursday at 06:56 AM Share Posted Thursday at 06:56 AM 9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: Is there any source that the Inhuman King (the White Dragon) transformed during Dragon Kill and or any other time... None that I am aware of. @Zebraman1 pretty much summed up my reasoning for the involvement of the Inhuman King in this conflict - providing mercenaries but preventing the Crimson Bat to keep the dragonewt karma evened out. I agree that a mere dream dragon might be hard put to stand before the Bat, and my speculation is that what the Inhuman King sent was something similar to the Great Dragons summoned (or embodied) by the EWF leaders like Great Lord Burin, Lorenkargartan the Mile, the Emperor Sun Dragon, or (Isgang)Drang the Diamond Storm Dragon (who got slain by Alakoring). Powered by the build-up of Belintar's Proximate Holy Realm with its Dragon Pass branch carried over by the Sartar Dynasty. IMO the Inhuman King remains to play its role in the upcoming Hero Wars, escaping the mutual annihilation through his re-hatching ability (unlike Isgangdrang). All of that is speculation on my part. 2 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Thursday at 02:24 PM Share Posted Thursday at 02:24 PM 7 hours ago, Joerg said: None that I am aware of. We'll just have to roll with it that the White Dragon is in the below illustration... who's to say it did not partake? There was an illustration showing dragons soring above dragonpass in parallel with each other but I can't locate it easily now. IIRC there was one scenario where PC go to Dragon's Eye but where it is I don't know. It'd be interesting to foreshadow the Company of the Dragon with a meeting of the Inhuman King in Dragon's Eye, as early as 1600 and that its intervention, attacking the Bat in 1602 keeps the PC's from being killed... He saves them or his actions against the Bat saves them so they may assist in freeing the Brown Dragon 25 year later or something like that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted Friday at 05:40 PM Share Posted Friday at 05:40 PM On 9/11/2024 at 10:35 PM, Erol of Backford said: Is there any source that the Inhuman King (the White Dragon) transformed during Dragon Kill and or any other time... No, but the Inhuman King is a True Dragon in Dragonewt form, so it is reasonable that it c an dream a Dream Dragon. So, to kill the Crimson Bat you just need to feed the Inhuman King with loads of cheese, so much that it is bloated and must sleep, as a snake does. Then you enter its dreams, make it dream a Dream Dragon and send it against the Crimson Bat. Easy peasy. 1 Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Friday at 07:45 PM Share Posted Friday at 07:45 PM 2 hours ago, soltakss said: feed the Inhuman King with loads of cheese Dragonewts like cheese? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted Friday at 08:02 PM Share Posted Friday at 08:02 PM 14 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said: Dragonewts like cheese? As with dragonewts in general, you won't know until you try it. One of them will simply eat it. One of them will decide the cheese is living and you're the offering and eat you instead. One of them will be completely offended and kill you for bringing such to them. One of them will sit by the cheese and meditate upon it. One of them will try it as a weapon or as a lure. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soltakss Posted Saturday at 10:28 AM Share Posted Saturday at 10:28 AM 14 hours ago, Erol of Backford said: 16 hours ago, soltakss said: feed the Inhuman King with loads of cheese Dragonewts like cheese? It doesn't have to like it, it just needs to eat it. Quote Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. www.soltakss.com/index.html Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Saturday at 11:33 AM Share Posted Saturday at 11:33 AM 1 hour ago, soltakss said: It doesn't have to like it, it just needs to eat it. I picture an Imtherian dairy farmer with a cheese hat and a wheelbarrow walking to Dragon's Eye saying "well ok, just a little bite"... (the farmer and the cheese) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted Saturday at 08:18 PM Share Posted Saturday at 08:18 PM On 9/8/2024 at 9:35 AM, metcalph said: I don't think a mere dream dragon could have destroyed off the Crimson Bat. If it was a dream dragon, it was several orders of magnitude more powerful than the regular ones. Which of course cannot be strictly ruled out. At the same time, a True Dragon could never get defeated by the mere Bat. So it's not anything that fits into the obvious schemas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erol of Backford Posted Saturday at 11:28 PM Share Posted Saturday at 11:28 PM There was a podcast, maybe the Tales from the Black Alyx where they were talking about True Dragon Blood from the Dragon/Bat combat and PC's trying to attune to it w hile it was still living (dragon blood lives for some time after it is freed from a dragon's body?) but went mad after they succeeded over time. Use their dragon consciousness and some passions to augment, whatever and it made "more game fun" for the campaign. I think I'll use that as part of the 1602 Dragon/Bat scenario. Easy enough to have it be a segway into later relations with dragons and dragonewts. Anyone have ideas about this? Lots of good ideas coming from this post for me Zebraman, thanks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassius Posted Sunday at 09:46 AM Share Posted Sunday at 09:46 AM 13 hours ago, Akhôrahil said: If it was a dream dragon, it was several orders of magnitude more powerful than the regular ones. Which of course cannot be strictly ruled out. At the same time, a True Dragon could never get defeated by the mere Bat. So it's not anything that fits into the obvious schemas. What about several Dream Dragons ? Quote Runequest Glorantha France Fan Discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akhôrahil Posted Sunday at 09:51 AM Share Posted Sunday at 09:51 AM 3 minutes ago, Cassius said: What about several Dream Dragons ? I don’t believe that’s what’s reported? The sufficient amount of Bestiary-level Dream Dragons to take out the Bat would be very high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cassius Posted Sunday at 01:32 PM Share Posted Sunday at 01:32 PM 3 hours ago, Akhôrahil said: The sufficient amount of Bestiary-level Dream Dragons to take out the Bat would be very high. Oh, that's a good point. Quote Runequest Glorantha France Fan Discord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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