The Death of Warhammer RPG's

[Ars Mysteriorum]

I was utterly shocked to hear that Black Industries is ceasing production of RPG's as of September 2008.

I simply cannot believe it. Especially after the highly successful sale of their new Warhammer 40,000: Dark Heresy RPG.

Is anyone else as distraught as I am about this?

[PK Games]

A whole forum full of people on the Black Industries Web Pages, at least two yahoo groups Im on, Me, You and about anyone who plucked down $50 for a book that starts a RPG Line that got cancelled 3 days into its release.

Guess I will need to buy 40K Table Top Codexes for source material now. Thats what we did in the 90s for WHFB. We used the 4th/5th Edition Warhammer Fantasy Battles Army books for sourcebooks and used the conversion charts in WHFRP Bible. We were also fortunate enough to have Warhammer Quest for supplemental material and ideas.

With a really good OCR scan of a book you can go in and just change some of the entries enough to make it into any game system you want.

Not that Id ever do that.>:->

[drohem]

It is strange that a RPG that sells out is considered not profitable and by the parent company and excised immendiately. It makes you wonder what GW was thinking. :ohwell:

[PK Games]

Not necessarily GW. GW set up a sub company to handle non-table top books (ie, non miniature, fiction, comics etc) and they in turn set up sub companies to handle the RPGs independently. Someone at company one decided the success of the novels out weighs the RPG and decided to focus on the novels only.

Its there business, its there decision. However, if enough fans complain and request more, well its 2008 not 1988. I have a good faith (60/40 here) that by the time the next 4 (and last 4) of Black Industries books are released Green Ronin will absorb the license and continue to support the game line.

Maybe nothing major, but a book here and there to keep the RPGers and Miniature game players interested in the novels.

What they are missing is a good $30 sourcebook for a RPG with say 100 pages can support a series of 4 or 5 novels.

Anyway.....:mad:

[Atgxtg]

It is strange that a RPG that sells out is considered not profitable and by the parent company and excised immendiately. It makes you wonder what GW was thinking. :ohwell:

That is pretty much what happened with Decipher's RPG line too. In Decipher's case they were new to the RPG field and had unreasonable expectations. They thought that since they could compete with WotC in the CCG field, that they would get the same sort of market share in the RPG field. So the lines were canceled for not succeeding enough.

But the people behind Warhammer would have known better than that.

[Hedgehobbit]

From a business point of view, GW should have just considered the RPG as advertisement for the novels and mini-game. I'm actually surprised that they let Green Ronin change the RPG to make it less compatible with the mini-game.

In any event, GW should have known when they went into this what the costs were going to be. Maybe the market's changed significantly since a year ago.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

I feel absolutely crushed. Games are what I do. I loved Warhammer dearly and the way it reminded me of games of yore.

I bought so many supplements for it... and I decided to hold off on Warhammer 40K and wait for a reprint.

I really feel like I've been punched in the gut, as I've heard many others say.

[PK Games]

From a business point of view, GW should have just considered the RPG as advertisement for the novels and mini-game. I'm actually surprised that they let Green Ronin change the RPG to make it less compatible with the mini-game.

In any event, GW should have known when they went into this what the costs were going to be. Maybe the market's changed significantly since a year ago.

Green Ronin just revamped the 1985 RPG rules for the same game and setting. What surprised me was the lack of support from the actual Games Workshop web page and White Dwarf.

Perhaps they will bring back the Citadel Journal or even create a GWRPG Quarterly magazine.

[PK Games]

I feel absolutely crushed. Games are what I do. I loved Warhammer dearly and the way it reminded me of games of yore.

I bought so many supplements for it... and I decided to hold off on Warhammer 40K and wait for a reprint.

I really feel like I've been punched in the gut, as I've heard many others say.

I dont feel physically or even emotionally hurt here. Im a bit upset because I spent a good deal of time hunting down a copy of the 40KRP rule book and the day after I succeed in finding, buying and beginning to await for delivery of what i was hoping was a great and long line of books, I hear its gone.

[drohem]

Sorry PK, I empathize. That has to leave a sour taste in your mouth; especially with the cost for new RPG core books these days.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

My good friend managed to get me a copy of Dark Heresy. Bless the bugger.

[AikiGhost]

It is strange that a RPG that sells out is considered not profitable and by the parent company and excised immendiately. It makes you wonder what GW was thinking. :ohwell:

Its apprently a trimming back to the core business of the black library by Games Workshop. RPGs are nowhere near as profitable per dollar invested as the BI novels are so with the upcoming recession that is what they are cutting back to. It really sucks (and you wont likely find a bigger fan of WFRP around here than me) but I do understand why they did it. I will be buying all the available WFRP stuff I don't have (only actually a couple of books) asap before the current print runs are sold out.

[Merak Gren]

I'm still in shock. Having bought Dark Heresy last Thursday and looking forward to the rest of the line, the decision just doesn't make sense. Sure they have had a bad year, but from what they've said to the markets its been poor sales of minatures LotR and losses in shops outside the UK.

They cancelled this years dividend, so I expect that heads should roll.

Still its nothing new from GW, they did the same thing in the late eighties.

I have never been into their games and books before but became really excited about W40KRP. Its a shame.

I pity the poor sods who get the sack after producing such good quality games.

Nevermind. Been burnt twice by GW. Will there be a third I wonder?

[PK Games]

Its hard to just drop LOTR, for 2 reasons.

1. They are making the Hobbit into a movie soon which no doubt will spark a new round of merchandizing frenzy and doom. Especially they are thinking of doing it as two movies. Thats two years of movie merchandizing frenzy. And if they bail on the license now they may not have it when the new films hit in a few years.

and most importantly.

2. The probably licensed a contract with Tolkien Enterprised for a set amount of years with X number of products obligated per fiscal quarter.

That makes it easier for them to drop something internal.

Should have been their countless number of space marine army codices. Or their god aweful novels.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Its hard to just drop LOTR, for 2 reasons.

1. They are making the Hobbit into a movie soon which no doubt will spark a new round of merchandizing frenzy and doom. Especially they are thinking of doing it as two movies. Thats two years of movie merchandizing frenzy. And if they bail on the license now they may not have it when the new films hit in a few years.

and most importantly.

2. The probably licensed a contract with Tolkien Enterprised for a set amount of years with X number of products obligated per fiscal quarter.

That makes it easier for them to drop something internal.

Should have been their countless number of space marine army codices. Or their god aweful novels.

Your reasoning seems sound in the capitalistic sense.

In the gaming sense, it's a huge, stinking, steaming pile of crap-filled crap.

I really loved the game. A lot. I went from not knowing a thing about the setting to being able to recite a brief history of the Storm of Chaos off the cuff in a matter of months.

I really was itching to see what BI would have done with the Space Marines centered game. Their god-like power levels would have been an interesting incarnation of the system...

Hmmm... I wonder how far I could push the BRP system...

And yes, their novels are heaped in the aforementioned pile of fecal matter in my opinion as well. Seriously. What does it take to get intelligent prose these days?

[PK Games]

I think that space marines wouldnt be that unbalanced. Sure +10% WS, BS, S, T, AG may seem big, but there are other ways to "balance" them.

Probably give them less fate points and bog them down with some sort of code of honor. But this should be a discussion for a 40KRP forum.

Cheers.

[PK Games]

And I will say this, most of their novels that I have actually read (maybe 10 tops) have been real bad, but a few were ok (The Commissar Caine series, the first Ultra Marine Book).

None of the Warhammer Fantasy books have been able to catch my attention.

[Ken]

What can I say?

I've been burned by GW several times. The first major one for me was in the eighties when they stopped stocking other companies products. Once when they decided to drop role-playing. I was a member of staff and their HR systems of use/abuse are a complete joke. And yet again with the pulling of a line of RPG materials that have a quality that surpasses most of the tosh out there.

WFRP was (and still is) a classic. The dawning renaissance gritty fantasy is , (for me) as original and exciting as glorantha. I don't know about 40k rp, as the only thing I've really disliked about their mythos is the constant reference to the 'Chaos crap'. But I bet it would make a good Dune system.

The people that run GW are one thing and one thing only, that is 'capitalists'. There's nothing wrong with that if your in business, and if your successful, fair enough. But we share a hobby which like it or not is niche, as such it is supported by a core of people that really love the products and developers. We love them because of product and customer/developer interaction, not brand, (excepting of course AD&D and d20).

It doesn't surprise me that they've done this as they've done similar before. It does surprise me that we as gamers in general are surprised by their antics.

GW have burned me several times before as I've said, my only response to them then as it is now.

'I am not a demographic money making button pushing dice rolling moron even if you insist on treating me like one. For being so patronising to myself and other hobbyist's alike, if you would like my support of your organisation or the money from my wallet, I have but one thing to say......

FUCK YOU".

This is, of course, just my opinion having a long history with them as both customer and employee.

Laters guys

Ken.

[Puck]

Arrrg! That is the first I have heard of this being cancelled. Although it doesn't suprise me. FRPG's do not make as much mula as mini's. People playing FRPG's do not spend near as much money as people buying armies of overpriced mini's, paints, codexs and whatever else. If in their spare time wargamers began roleplaying at $50(core book) for a whole group instead of hundreds or thousands per individual, GW would have a lot of money to loose.

I know that the idea of the rpg was a little unpopular among distributers for this very reason.

Either way, the rulebook for the old inquisitor game is a helpful buy for those wishing to roleplay in the 41st millenium. Someone bashing Brp together with Inquisitor should be able to come up with a usable set of rules.

[Rurik]

Shouldn't Black Industries change the subtitle/slogan on their website to something other than "The future of games"?

[Atgxtg]

I dunno Rurirk, I think if you put that question mark in the quotation marks...

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Shouldn't Black Industries change the subtitle/slogan on their website to something other than "The future of games"?

How about:

The Now of Suck.

Atgxtg's is a sufficient alternative as well.

[Ars Mysteriorum]

Yup. I just managed to get every WFRP book out except the three I don't want, pretty much rounding out my collection. I am a slave to Warhammer, even in its death throes.

Suddenly I feel like I'm the one riding the nuke in Dr. Strangelove.

[PK Games]

Yup. I just managed to get every WFRP book out except the three I don't want.

What three are those?

Im not too interested in the adventures (other then the Lure of the Lich Lord and Barony of the Damned).

[PK Games]

Either way, the rulebook for the old inquisitor game is a helpful buy for those wishing to roleplay in the 41st millenium. Someone bashing Brp together with Inquisitor should be able to come up with a usable set of rules.

Get to work then.