BRP Starships pdf - comments welcome

[seneschal]

OK, let's test drive our gadget-building mechanics:

 

The Doctor's sonic screwdriver (an energy emitter Swiss Army knife that apparently does everything except actually drive screws, sorta like the watches in Spy Kids that had so many extras installed they couldn't tell time)

 

Star Trek TOS tricorder.  It's a good non-weapon sensory device and oh so useful

 

Lost In Space environmental control robot, designed to explore and evaluate alien environments to determine whether they are safe for human habitation.  So why was it outfitted with those nasty electrical arc emitters in its claws?

 

Barsoomian personal flier.  It's like a boogie board or single ski -- made out of Cavorite.

 

Nausicaa's gull-winged personal flier.  Wingspan 5.8 meters, weight 12 kg, powered by twin jet engines.  Designed for one pilot but can carry a passenger (uncomfortably) in a pinch.

 

Slayer laser lance (from the movie Krull).  Sort of a high-tech musket, it fires a single laser blast then must be used as a melee weapon.  Does it make sense?  No, but it looks cool.

[clarence]

Nausicaa's gull-winged personal flier.  Wingspan 5.8 meters, weight 12 kg, powered by twin jet engines.  Designed for one pilot but can carry a passenger (uncomfortably) in a pinch.

 

I calibrated the vehicle rules a few days ago by trying to replicate real-world vehicles (from trikes and fighter jets to armored boats), and they seem to work quite good for this one. The weight is of course very fictional.

 

Personal Flier: 12 Modules, 12 kg, Supra-Light (Weight/100). Engine: 2 Modules. Pilot: 1. Passenger: 1. Flight/wings: Modules x3.

 

(Trike: 400 kg, 9 modules, Ultra-Light (Weight/2). Pilot 1 Module, Engine 1, Cargo 1, Flight/wings: Modules x3. 6x2 m.)

 

 

The Doctor's sonic screwdriver (an energy emitter Swiss Army knife that apparently does everything except actually drive screws, sorta like the watches in Spy Kidsthat had so many extras installed they couldn't tell time)

 

I haven't seen this one in action, so I really don't have a clue, but could it be partly built with Fate Points perhaps? I suppose 1 µModule would be enough for, say, 4 Fate Points : )

 

 

Slayer laser lance (from the movie Krull).  Sort of a high-tech musket, it fires a single laser blast then must be used as a melee weapon.  Does it make sense?  No, but it looks cool.

 

12 µModules. Damage/Energy Weapon 2 µModules (3d8? range: 10 m? ammo: 1 shot), Damage/Melee Weapon 10 µModules (1d8+1+db, range: long). I think the user's speed should be included in the melee damage too, but I didn't see anything about that in BGB.

[Atgxtg]

LOL! I've got to write some RPG stuff with seneschal someday.

 

When I started thinking of how to do this, I thought of the gadget rules in the Latest Doctor Who RPG. In it they do describe items by function. 

[seneschal]

Metal seems rare in Valley of the Wind.  Most of the gear is made out of futuristic ceramics or super-durable giant bug chitin (which may help explain the light weight).  Also, given its size and configuration, Nausicaa's glider must have a pretty small gas tank filled with some super, long-lasting fuel.  The royal gunship, a much larger vessel, was obviously powered by liquid fuel.

 

The sonic screwdriver (which I think appeared during the Tom Baker era) is a fountain pen-sized device that can open or seal electronically operated doors, rattle security systems into obedience, tamper with computers and electronic equipment in general, and most other non-offensive tasks the Doctor wants it to.  Despite the damage it does to control panels, I've never seen it used as a weapon (not that it would penetrate Dalek or Cyberman armor anyway).  So something as hand-wavy as Fate points may be perfectly appropriate

[seneschal]

More gadget ideas -- super-spy gear is always fun, and there are plenty of movie and television inspirations to choose from.

 

The Shoe Phone (from Get Smart) -- an early 1960s cell phone built into one of an agent's shoes.  The user must put the sole near or against his face to talk.  Hope you didn't step into anything icky, and watch those cleats.  Comes in all sizes, styles and colors

 

Voice-controlled motorcycle (from Totally Spies) -- created for agents of the World Organization of Human Protection (WOOHP), this is a sleek, compact, high-powered bike with rocket-assisted ground speed.  It can actually turn on a dime, can hover for extended periods of time, and is surprisingly durable.  Unfortunately, the voice controls are extremely literal.  Calling "Hi" to another driver may cause it to hover, while "Turn around" may cause the bike to spin in place.  Comes is assorted bright primary colors, decorated with a heart and/or daisy theme.

 

Driving/diving suit -- another WOOHP device, this is a tight protective bodysuit with helmet that sometimes accompanies the motorcycle above.  It is capable of sealing and pressurizing itself for underwater activity at a moment's notice, has built-in life support (depth and duration unspecified), and features underwater jets built into the boots for fast swimming.  Unfortunately, the voice-controlled motorcycle is absolutely not designed for use in water (oops!).  Comes in assorted primary colors, helmet visor is heart-shaped.

 

Compact grapnel and line (from Castle of Cagliostro) -- designed by notorious international thief Arsene Lupin III (aka Rupan or the Wolf), this is a belt-worn spool of thin but incredibly strong cable crammed into a box about the size of a tape measure.  The grapnel is effective despite its miniature size, and the cable seems to be hundreds of feet long.  It has a tiny hand crank on the side for tediously pulling oneself up.

[Atgxtg]

 

 

The sonic screwdriver (which I think appeared during the Tom Baker era) is a fountain pen-sized device that can open or seal electronically operated doors, rattle security systems into obedience, tamper with computers and electronic equipment in general, and most other non-offensive tasks the Doctor wants it to.  Despite the damage it does to control panels, I've never seen it used as a weapon (not that it would penetrate Dalek or Cyberman armor anyway).  So something as hand-wavy as Fate points may be perfectly appropriate

 

Actually it appeared in the Patrick Troughton era., where it did work on screws!

 

I could see it penetrating a Dalek or Cyberman's armor (it's cut through metal doors), but it is not really a good weapon. Kinda like trying to wield a blowtorch in combat. 

[Atgxtg]

Seneschal,

 

I'm not looking for example items so much as what the game functions an item has. For example the Shoe Phone can be used to communicate (on the telephone lines). Chitin armor in Naussica  functions as armor (lightweight, perhaps, but still armor).

 

 

Oh, Btw, "That's Lord Yuppa! Kill him and you'll be famous!"

[seneschal]

   As Yuppa single-handedly slaughters a company of enemy soldiers without breaking a sweat. 

[clarence]

Voice-controlled motorcycle: We might need a User Interface function to cover cases like these. I'm thinking of Voice/Sound, Thought, Head-jack, Body (Species) etcetera.

 

Psionics might also be interesting to add, to be able to mix gear and psionics in some settings. And I'm also thinking we might need Stats if we are to build robots with these rules, though the augmentation rules cover robot-building at the moment. And where do Fate Points go? A catch-all Stunts group?

 

How's this list?

 

User Interface

Damage

Movement

Communicate

Environment

Enhancements

Compute

Scan/Sensors

Store

Manipulate

Stats

Skills

Psionics

 

(Armor: Buy AP separately, as for vehicles?)

[Atgxtg]

Good start.

 

My thoughts on things-

 

Voice Controlled: I was thinking that all devices would get 1 type of control system standard. A device with two methods of control would cost extra. Basically 1 point per additional method. So voice control would be free if you couldn't steer the thing manually. 

 

Stats: These could probably be built just like anything else. Either at a 1 for 1 cost or on a doubling progression- I'll have to see how bad it looks when I try to build a STR 50 forklift.  I definitely see this being useful for things like forklifts, exo-skeletons and such. Perhaps a stand along item might use the 1 for 1 cost for stats, and something that arguments the wearer's stats use the doubling progression? It's a lot easier and cheaper to build an elevator rated at 75 tons than it is to build a Power Suit that can lift 75 tons. 

 

Stats should also give the appropriate Stat x5% rolls. This is probably how we can do up sentient computers. They get an INT and an Idea roll. Any one with an INT 10+ probably won't blow an easy Idea roll, and therefore isn't "stupid". INT 20 won''t blow an average roll, and is probably at genius level. 

 

 

Skills: I'm thinking that giving gear a skill ( such as with an autopilot or robot) would be on a 1 point per 5% skill basis. Items that augment the user's skill rating would use the doubling progression , as it would keep the skill bonuses under control. That is 1 point for +5%, 2 for +10%, 4 points for +15%, 8 points for +20% and so on. An item that can do both, costs 1 point extra. 

 

Psionics: If we add PSI to the character we could see about adding PSI to the gear. Either as skill augmentation, POW (PSI?) boost, or PSI Point (Magic Point) storage device)

 

Armor: I am thinking we can give a X armor per points table. Then break up the total AP over hit locations v(most items will probably only have one location). To help with this I am going to try and reverse engineer the weight per AP values on the general armor table.

 

Building Robots with this: Yeah, why not? In fact, if I can pull it off, I'd like to roll this in with your vehicle design rules and allow us to add abilities to vehicles, or even design something like a Mars Rover that is a combination of device, robot and vehicle. IMO that would be the smart thing to do, and really cool. 

 

Personal-Scale Modules: I'm hoping to get this to work with mini modules that mass 0.1 kg (about 3.5 oz.) That is almost exactly 1/1000th the mass of a vehicle scale module -,making it easy to say that 1 vehicle modules gives you 1000 personal scale modules for adding things like an AM/FM radio, heater, headlights, cigarette lighter, bluetooth interface for a cell phone, and windshield wipers. Anything that needs to be smaller than this can be done by spending $$$ to miniaturize the item. 

[Atgxtg]

   As Yuppa single-handedly slaughters a company of enemy soldiers without breaking a sweat. 

For years my roommate and I used to break up laughing thinking about that scene. We even used the line during RPG sessions. We once got an entire gaming group who hadn't seen Nassuica laughing when we saw a really powerful reoccurring NPC show up and used the line on a new player.As  the rest of the group had seen the NPC in action, they broke out laughing immediately.  

[Jeffrywith1e]

For years my roommate and I used to break up laughing thinking about that scene. We even used the line during RPG sessions. We once got an entire gaming group who hadn't seen Nassuica laughing when we saw a really powerful reoccurring NPC show up and used the line on a new player.As  the rest of the group had seen the NPC in action, they broke out laughing immediately.  

Such a great movie and even better comic!

[clarence]

Voice Controlled: I was thinking that all devices would get 1 type of control system standard. A device with two methods of control would cost extra. Basically 1 point per additional method. So voice control would be free if you couldn't steer the thing manually. 

 

My thought exactly. Does it take up a module to have a second UI?

 

Skills: I'm thinking that giving gear a skill ( such as with an autopilot or robot) would be on a 1 point per 5% skill basis. Items that augment the user's skill rating would use the doubling progression , as it would keep the skill bonuses under control. That is 1 point for +5%, 2 for +10%, 4 points for +15%, 8 points for +20% and so on. An item that can do both, costs 1 point extra. 

 

Sounds good.

 

Psionics: If we add PSI to the character we could see about adding PSI to the gear. Either as skill augmentation, POW (PSI?) boost, or PSI Point (Magic Point) storage device)

 

Rules for psionics is in the works, it's taking a bit of time to get the right balance between feeling/flexibility/ease-of-use though.

 

Armor: I am thinking we can give a X armor per points table. Then break up the total AP over hit locations v(most items will probably only have one location). To help with this I am going to try and reverse engineer the weight per AP values on the general armor table.

 

Excellent.

 

Building Robots with this: Yeah, why not? In fact, if I can pull it off, I'd like to roll this in with your vehicle design rules and allow us to add abilities to vehicles, or even design something like a Mars Rover that is a combination of device, robot and vehicle. IMO that would be the smart thing to do, and really cool. 

 

I have started on the rules for augmentations, that I want to stay as close as possible to the gear rules. The way they work now is that each hit location have 10 microModules, preferably exchangeable with the gear rules (making an implant of 2 modules of Damage for example). By changing all hit locations into "gear" you have a fully synthetic body, and it's also a way to build robots.

 

And combining objects/functions from the vehicle and gear rules would be very interesting, making it possible to detail a vehicle in an interesting way. And vehicle, gear and augmentations (gear possible to attach as a body-part, body-part then integrating with a tailor-made vehicle).

 

Personal-Scale Modules: I'm hoping to get this to work with mini modules that mass 0.1 kg (about 3.5 oz.) That is almost exactly 1/1000th the mass of a vehicle scale module -,making it easy to say that 1 vehicle modules gives you 1000 personal scale modules for adding things like an AM/FM radio, heater, headlights, cigarette lighter, bluetooth interface for a cell phone, and windshield wipers. Anything that needs to be smaller than this can be done by spending $$$ to miniaturize the item. 

 

Another module scale below gear/augmentations? So we have decaModules for starships, regular modules for vehicles (100 kg/module), microModules for gear/augmentations (body-sized objects, 1 kg/module), miniModules for really small stuff (0.1 kg/module). Perhaps the mini- and micro- prefixes should change places?

[Atgxtg]

Ooh, I like the 10 micro-modules to a hit location. That's inspired! Wish I thought of it.

 

The only reason why I'm going smaller is to account for tiny devices that are handheld or smaller. 

 

Hmm, you know, if we stuck with the increased cost thing, we could use ONE design method and just adjust the cost by scale. For instance a radio that would be 2 vehicle modules could be scaled down to personal scale for, say  32x cost, and down to micro scale for, say 1000x cost or some such.That would let us simplify things. 

 

The more I look at this the more I think the idea that it can be one design method to build everything. 

[clarence]

Hmm, yes, I agree. One module to rule them all. That will probably work. My only objection is that it might be un-pedagogical. Too many options and being too generic can make the construction of objects a bit harder I think, especially if some of the options are for specific categories only (like different modes of movement).

 

So: One large generic system for everything OR three smaller, very similar systems, optimized for three different purposes (vehicles, gear, augmentations)? I can see pros and cons with both. Would anyone else like to chime in here? Which one do you prefer?

 

 

Ooh, I like the 10 micro-modules to a hit location. That's inspired! Wish I thought of it.

 

 

Well you did, didn't you? At least you got me on the right track with one of your comments a few weeks ago. So far it's working really well. Quite simple and very hands-on to make implants or exchange body parts.

[Baron]

Pseudoqoute: "Too many options and too generic can make it a bit harder..."

Possibly. I'd use an equipment list, not a builder. Might look at a build system to get a feel for my handwavium pull stats from air methodology. Too many options will make my eyes glaze over, but that's just me.

I might suggest separate but compatible instructions...

[clarence]

I might suggest separate but compatible instructions...

 

 

Ok, good to know. Does anyone else have an opinion about this?

[g33k]

Hmm, yes, I agree. One module to rule them all. That will probably work. My only objection is that it might be un-pedagogical. Too many options and being too generic can make the construction of objects a bit harder I think, especially if some of the options are for specific categories only (like different modes of movement).

 

So: One large generic system for everything OR three smaller, very similar systems, optimized for three different purposes (vehicles, gear, augmentations)? I can see pros and cons with both. Would anyone else like to chime in here? Which one do you prefer? 

I wish I had more time to contribute... especially since my primary suggestion here is a time-intensive one!!! When looking at a choice like this, I think the best way to answer is with a demonstration... get folks to design according to the "one generic system" method, with the intent to break the system -- to demonstrate its flaws. Find as many "broken" cases as possible: more = better, here! Then, looking at the broken cases, decide if the best solution is to fix/revise the base system, or create alternate system(s). One hybrid case might be to have small "modifier" rulesets -- the big generic rules... with a sidebar or one-page, or the like, explaining the diff's when designing personal gear and/or augments, vs the base rules for vehicles.

[Atgxtg]

Pseudoqoute: "Too many options and too generic can make it a bit harder..."

Possibly. I'd use an equipment list, not a builder. Might look at a build system to get a feel for my handwavium pull stats from air methodology. Too many options will make my eyes glaze over, but that's just me.

I might suggest separate but compatible instructions...

That's what I was thinking. Basically, the design section will be guidelines on how to make something. What I want to do is keep all the equipment that is in the current draft, and show how it is "built" with points.

 

I'm thinking that the points won't be a game limit, per say, they way they are in HERO, but more a way to figure out how much something costs, or for setting up parameters for what equipment can do in a given campaign.

[Atgxtg]

Hmm, yes, I agree. One module to rule them all. That will probably work. My only objection is that it might be un-pedagogical. Too many options and being too generic can make the construction of objects a bit harder I think, especially if some of the options are for specific categories only (like different modes of movement).

 

So: One large generic system for everything OR three smaller, very similar systems, optimized for three different purposes (vehicles, gear, augmentations)? I can see pros and cons with both. Would anyone else like to chime in here? Which one do you prefer?

 

 

I think one system is easier to work with. I think it won't bog down the way HERO does, if we don"t actually require many traits.

 

If we make the various scales, such as they are, related to each other in some order of magnitude, then I was thinking we could scale up any object without having to rebuild it. That is, a laser that does 1d8 and cost 500 credits in personal scale, could be a laser cannon that does 1d8 and costs 500 MCr in starship scale. 

[clarence]

If we make the various scales, such as they are, related to each other in some order of magnitude, then I was thinking we could scale up any object without having to rebuild it. That is, a laser that does 1d8 and cost 500 credits in personal scale, could be a laser cannon that does 1d8 and costs 500 MCr in starship scale.

 

 

Very neat. I think it will work.

 

 

Yes, that's what I've been thinking too. There are options in between the two extremes. And for augmentations there will definitely be some explaining to do and a few extra rules to go deeper into.

 

But leaning towards the one-system solution requires quite a lot of synchronization between Atgxtg and me. The complexity of it might call for a joint document of some sort, to keep track of what needs to done and by who. Does anyone have suggestion regarding a good platform? Is Google Docs ok for this?

[Atgxtg]

I was thinking of just sending off a doc through email. Although, I could put my personal cloud back online. 

 

What I'm hoping to do is boil most of this down to ONE table. Just that the therms of the table will change depending on what the function is. So "50" could be how fast the vehicle moves, or how many kg the item can lift, or how many GB the item can store and so on. 

[clarence]

Very efficient and space-saving. Looking forward to seeing it.

 

I was thinking of just sending off a doc through email. Although, I could put my personal cloud back online. 

 

 

What platform are you using?

[Atgxtg]

For the cloud? I got a Seagate HD that can be hooked up to a network and accessed remotely. I took it down because too many other people where I live would access it to watch my TV shows and play my music. Now I put all than stuff on a portable HD and plugged in into a USB slot on my TV. So I could wipe the drive and set it up again.

 

But I think we can probably do just as well with email. Right now, the trick is comeing up with the right numbers to make the item work out at the right cost in points, mass and credits. 

 

Oh, that reminds me, I should probably add time/duration to range/distance to get vehicle move rates right. That would help to keep the cost down. 

[clarence]

Ok, email is fine : )