Choosing a Cult

[johnmcfloss]

I'm looking to start running a RQC campaign over the next month or so, but I'm relatively new to Glorantha, and my players are likely to be too.

I kickstarted the Classic reprint, so I've got that, and the four smaller paperbacks (Trolls & Trollkin, etc), but I'm not sure what I'm doing with Cults - the players are invariably going to want to join one, and going to want to join an appropriate one, but I've no idea where to suggest they look - I'm aware that there's a Cults supplement, but I'm hesitant to suggest they've got to read an entire splatbook and pick from that - it seems like a lot of work (and if they have to share the book, it'll take forever).

Is there a summary anywhere? A collated "god/cult/tenets/runes/magic" table or something? Ideally enough information that they can whittle their choices down to a select few, and then look the information up directly (or we can make it up), instead of just trawling for something suitable

[skoll]

First of all, if you don't have the Cults book, get it. Cults are essential to any Gloranthan game, and you should definitely allow your players to join one.

As a new player, the amount of cults can indeed be overwhelming. My suggestion: allow only human characters, and cults only from the following list: Orlanth, Humakt, Stormbull, Lhankor Mhy, Issaries, Yelmalio. (I'm sure somebody else will suggest a bit different list. It doesn't really matter what cults exactly are on the list. Just take a handful of the more popular ones. This list should allow quite varied group.)

Also, hkokko from has created cult onepagers. They are meant for RQ6/Mythras, so spell names etc might be different, but you might find them useful nonetheless. https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/gloranthan-cult-onepagers-main-page/

Edited September 1, 2016 by skoll

[johnmcfloss]

Cults is next on my list, thank you! But while I'm entirely happy to sit down and read through stuff, I'm not expecting players to necessarily read more than they need to - I can see "read this book, choose one cult from it" putting people off.

I'll take a look at the one-pagers this evening - even if the spell list doesn't work, if it's enough that players can get a handle on where they want to look further, it'll do what I need it to!

 

(My plan is to run in New Pavis, about 5 years after the Lunar occupation. I'm only allowing humans, but I'm happy to let people play Lunars or Orlanthi - a large part of the game is going to be navigating the tensions in the recently occupied city, probably investigating a Vampire Cult that's infiltrated both sides.)

[davecake]

This is what the old 'what my father says' handouts for RQ3 Gods of Glorantha were useful for - and at that level most of Glorantha hasn't changed much. Enough to know a little bit about each god - a couple of sentences each is all you really need for players to know which cults interest them. 

[Jon Hunter]

You mean something like this? If you want another culture adding to it shout

http://www.backtobalazar.com/runequest-cults-starting-players/

I had a half hour on my lunch today.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Jon Hunter

[styopa]

18 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

You mean something like this? If you want another culture adding to it shout

http://www.backtobalazar.com/runequest-cults-starting-players/

I had a half hour on my lunch today.

Nice!

I'd only add that Xiola Umbar (if the party context supports it) is generally considered by my players to be a far more "adventuring" PC-friendly 'healing' cult.  Her special spells from GoG: (Attract Attention, Group Defense (no duration!), Healing Trance, Shield of Darkness, and Turn Blow) are crazy good, verging on the overpowered.

Chalana Arroy's complete pacifism might be a fun challenge for some players, but others just find it annoying and rather dull.

[g33k]

On 9/1/2016 at 6:51 AM, johnmcfloss said:

(My plan is to run in New Pavis, about 5 years after the Lunar occupation. I'm only allowing humans, but I'm happy to let people play Lunars or Orlanthi - a large part of the game is going to be navigating the tensions in the recently occupied city, probably investigating a Vampire Cult that's infiltrated both sides.)

Offer up a paragraph or so on each of "Lightbringer," "Lunar," & "Praxian" cultures, plus another on the odd melting-pot / pressure-cooker that is "Pavis" (thus, a page or less all together), and suggest that they narrow choices to one of those.

Then have a short (1-3 sentence) precis of each of the playable cults within each of the four...

 

Edited September 2, 2016 by g33k
corrected punctuation

[g33k]

20 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

You mean something like this? If you want another culture adding to it shout

http://www.backtobalazar.com/runequest-cults-starting-players/

I had a half hour on my lunch today.

Very nice!   It looks like you began it as an "Orlanthi" specific offering, but then included some other deities too?

I'd add in a "Praxian" header akin to the "Orlanthi" one, and fill out the Nomad deities... or make a separate, comparable "Praxian" page?

One more on Lunars, and one on the Pavic tradition, and you've got pretty much all of original RQ2/RQ3 campagn settings ready to rock&roll for the newbie crowd!

It might need to include a Non-Human Deities page (for completeness), but IMHO Gloranthan newbies should BEGIN play as humans, for at least a single story.

You note "Eurmal" as NOT good for a starting player... what do you suggest as a cult for the stealthy/thieving sort of character?

A couple of minor issues:

• Typo (extra "of") on the Notes for "Orlanth" -- Default male of God of culture
• "Vinga" should be Note'd as "often taken as a female incarnation of Orlanth" (or similar Note).
• "Notes" & "Worshipped By" is redundant for Uleria; worth adding that in some cultures Uleria is a more-broad Love/Fertility deity; also that non-Ulerian prostitutes sometimes claim to be Ulerian Priestesses.

Several have no other "Note" than as a minor cult; imho if there's nothing worth adding to the "Notes" besides "minor cult," it probably won'r attract a player...

[jajagappa]

15 minutes ago, g33k said:

what do you suggest as a cult for the stealthy/thieving sort of character?

Lanbril.  Straightforward thief.  He's in the Pavis books as well as Cults Compendium.

Alternately, Orlanth (since his Adventurous aspect included being a thief - e.g. stealing the Sandals of Darkness)

[jajagappa]

23 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

ou mean something like this? If you want another culture adding to it shout

http://www.backtobalazar.com/runequest-cults-starting-players/

Overall, good initial set.  My only complaint is with Ernalda as not good for a starting character, but that probably reflects what was available in the old RQ material though.

Hopefully that's something that we'll see corrected in the new RQ like it was for HQG.

[Jon Hunter]

5 hours ago, styopa said:

Nice!

I'd only add that Xiola Umbar (if the party context supports it) is generally considered by my players to be a far more "adventuring" PC-friendly 'healing' cult.  Her special spells from GoG: (Attract Attention, Group Defense (no duration!), Healing Trance, Shield of Darkness, and Turn Blow) are crazy good, verging on the overpowered.

 

Chalana Arroy's complete pacifism might be a fun challenge for some players, but others just find it annoying and rather dull.

If i was doing a troll list id do that, the lists pretty much for Satar and environment.

I have a Prax/Pavis list ready to go if he wants that.

After 36 years gaming many of them in Glorantha i still don't feel qualified to write a lunar list

[Jon Hunter]

6 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Overall, good initial set.  My only complaint is with Ernalda as not good for a starting character, but that probably reflects what was available in the old RQ material though.

Hopefully that's something that we'll see corrected in the new RQ like it was for HQG.

I think Ernelda should be a possible starting character, but I don't think the materials is there to support the encouragement.

Its a hole that needs fixing.

Saying that it maybe to subtle a character for a player new to Glorantha.

[Jon Hunter]

30 minutes ago, g33k said:

 

• "Vinga" should be Note'd as "often taken as a female incarnation of Orlanth" (or similar Note).

 

I decided not to just to annoy Jeff

[styopa]

5 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

If i was doing a troll list id do that, the lists pretty much for Satar and environment.

I have a Prax/Pavis list ready to go if he wants that.

After 36 years gaming many of them in Glorantha i still don't feel qualified to write a lunar list

Note that she's not SOLELY a troll goddess, but the goddess of the "protecting darkness".  From GoG, p.75

"... Xiola Umbar is the goddess of protective darkness. Xiola Umbar preserves and heals. Even mighty queen trolls recognize her help. Oppressed peasants, grandmothers, and despised trollkin revere her name...."

It's pretty easy to see a PC starting from a background of an oppressed peasant?

Although personally I'd have to say as GM it would have to be an area that has relatively frequent contact with Uz, like Southern Sartar (by the Shadow Plateau) or Eastern Ralios.

[Jon Hunter]

For this situation im looking for the vanilla orlnathi, humans worship of Xiola Umbar isn't that vanilla.

[styopa]

19 hours ago, Jon Hunter said:

For this situation im looking for the vanilla orlnathi, humans worship of Xiola Umbar isn't that vanilla.

Fair point.  It's a good guide, in any case.

[johnmcfloss]

On 9/1/2016 at 9:20 PM, Jon Hunter said:

You mean something like this? If you want another culture adding to it shout

http://www.backtobalazar.com/runequest-cults-starting-players/

I had a half hour on my lunch today.

That was Exactly the kind of thing I meant, thank you!

 

And thank everyone - there's a whole lot of useful stuff here to get me started. I've time off coming up, that I'm probably going to use to compile a intro-pack for players.

[Noita]

On Saturday, September 03, 2016 at 5:07 AM, styopa said:

Note that she's not SOLELY a troll goddess, but the goddess of the "protecting darkness".  From GoG, p.75

"... Xiola Umbar is the goddess of protective darkness. Xiola Umbar preserves and heals. Even mighty queen trolls recognize her help. Oppressed peasants, grandmothers, and despised trollkin revere her name...."

It's pretty easy to see a PC starting from a background of an oppressed peasant?

Although personally I'd have to say as GM it would have to be an area that has relatively frequent contact with Uz, like Southern Sartar (by the Shadow Plateau) or Eastern Ralios.

Torkani  and the Bachad are dark Orlanthi.

[davecake]

I think Ernalda is fine for a starting PC, as long as you are happy not to be much of a physical combatant. They get excellent healing magic without the challenging pacifism of Chalana Arroy, attack magic (especially elementals are always dangerous), and other magic that is useful to a party (especially buffing). Plus they have a fairly easily understood and important social position. If you want to play a character that is magic focussed, they are one of the best choices. 

And I agree that Xiola Umbar would be a very unusual cult to be found separate from other Darkness cults, which is most Orlanthi - but not that unusual where darkness cults are already worshipped (including the Torkani and Bachad) though it would still be a cult for a very small minority of specialists rather than widespread (just like Chalana Arroy). The Kitori are they other common group of human Darkness worshippers. 

I agree Eurmal is not an easy cult for starting PCs. In general, they are not just thieves or comedians, Tricksters would generally these days be classified with a mental illness or personality disorder, and are reckless and untrustworthy even to their own party. Lanbril for urban professional thieves, Orlanth or Yinkin if you want a sneaky scout type but who is not necessarily a professional criminal. 

Personally, I also think Heler is under rated, but I agree that the support to play them isn't really there except in HeroQuest. 

[TRose]

On ‎9‎/‎1‎/‎2016 at 6:22 AM, skoll said:

First of all, if you don't have the Cults book, get it. Cults are essential to any Gloranthan game, and you should definitely allow your players to join one.

As a new player, the amount of cults can indeed be overwhelming. My suggestion: allow only human characters, and cults only from the following list: Orlanth, Humakt, Stormbull, Lhankor Mhy, Issaries, Yelmalio. (I'm sure somebody else will suggest a bit different list. It doesn't really matter what cults exactly are on the list. Just take a handful of the more popular ones. This list should allow quite varied group.)

Also, hkokko from has created cult onepagers. They are meant for RQ6/Mythras, so spell names etc might be different, but you might find them useful nonetheless. https://notesfrompavis.wordpress.com/2014/05/11/gloranthan-cult-onepagers-main-page/

 Good list for starting Cults but I would add two more.

 First is Foundchild. The God of the Hunt. He a very good choice for starting players and has no real enemies besides chaos.

 For a more advance game My favorite God is Argan Argar Troll God of Trade who tends to try to get along with everyone he can make a profit out of.

[Zit]

23 hours ago, johnmcfloss said:

That was Exactly the kind of thing I meant, thank you!

 

And thank everyone - there's a whole lot of useful stuff here to get me started. I've time off coming up, that I'm probably going to use to compile a intro-pack for players.

Don't forget that more than a ressource for learning skills and cool magic, cults introduce you to a social network with its codes, duties, behaviour, advantages, contacts, social and political power. It determines your relations with other groups. In Pavis, an Orlanthi shall not show-off too much and is a default suspect for the conquering Empire.They are numerous among the Sartar exiles. A Yelmalion probably comes from Sun County, has a consevartive and rigid education and formal relations with Lunars etc. Not speaking about factions within a cult.

[styopa]

On 9/5/2016 at 5:06 AM, davecake said:

Tricksters would generally these days be classified with a mental illness or personality disorder, and are reckless and untrustworthy even to their own party.

Such a magnificent comment.

I've frankly always subtly or not-so discouraged people playing Tricksters, because (IMO) the general 'i don't really care what happens to you because of it but this will be good for a larf' sociopathy I've suspected could actually cause some interPLAYER difficulties that aren't (again, IMO) conducive to MGF.

This suspicion was validated when I finally read the narrative of the Exigers Pamaltela campaign (http://seiyuu.com/okamoto/writing/campaign_log_2_0.pdf) ; Mister Man was perfectly run, and I'm pretty sure my PCs would have eventually just murdered him.

[g33k]

18 hours ago, TRose said:

 Good list for starting Cults but I would add two more.

 First is Foundchild. The God of the Hunt. He a very good choice for starting players and has no real enemies besides chaos.

 For a more advance game My favorite God is Argan Argar Troll God of Trade who tends to try to get along with everyone he can make a profit out of.

Foundchild -- absolutely!  Argan Argar ... eh... I'd go with Issaries for the first pass.  If someone later WANTS to go Argan Argar, then let the Issaries merchant take on the AA cultist as a "junior partner" & then move off-stage (settle in a single trading-post, etc).  But the OP explicitly wants to start pretty vanilla, so...

But YES for Foundchild!

FWIW, when I suggested a "Praxian" page, I was specifically thinking of David Scott's excellent post on his Work-In-Progress:   

 

[Pentallion]

We have so many fantastic memories from our Trickster Conlan.  The time Cacodemon wanted a certain male body part and he volunteered, chopped it off only to have another player cry out and fall to the ground.  The time he bought a piece of Truestone from the Storm Bulls, whipped out the Unbreakable Sword, sliced and diced the Truestone then slid the pieces back across the table "How much you pay to buy 30 pieces of Truestone?"  The time he took one of those pieces of virgin Truestone and touched our Wind Voice with it in his sleep and ran away.  The time he lost the Unbreakable Sword. 

But his greatest moment was the time he was about to be hung in the New Pavis market square when he shouted out "People of Pavis!  Today is your last day, for tomorrow YELM WILL NOT RISE!"  His lie spell caused so much disorder and panic in the city that it broke the Harmony that protected the city's walls and Argrath and Jaldon liberated the city.

 

Trickster is an iconic character that actually is the mover behind all the heroes actions.  He causes nothing but mayhem, but in doing so drives them to be the Heroes they are.

 

In my Glorantha, Trickster IS Lanbril and he's trying to destroy the gods.  to that end, he drives the entire Argrath Saga.  He drives the entire third age towards its doom.  You see, Lanbril was mortal, not a god.  So he wasn't trapped by the Compromise.  And since Trickster was really Lanbril in disguise, he managed to escape the Compromise.  He wandered the 3rd Age pretending to be fools and idiots so that the gods never noticed as he created the Kingdom of Ignorance, or caused mayhem in key places at key times.  Always moving the world towards his end game.

And Conlan's One Unique Thing was that he wasn't any Trickster, he was THE Trickster.  And all his player ever asked himself was, "what would Lanbril do?"  Be the fool, until you fool them all.

Edited September 7, 2016 by Pentallion

[Haimji]

On 02/09/2016 at 9:42 PM, g33k said:

what do you suggest as a cult for the stealthy/thieving sort of character?
 

- Ormalaya (hunters subcult of Orlanth Adventurous)

- Odayla (hunters cult)

- Desemborth (thieves subcult of Orlanth Adventurous, just add the spell "dark walk" to the available spells)

- Tatouth the Scout (scout subcult of Orlanth Adventurous)