Barbarian Town/Exilestead

[Erol of Backford]

1 hour ago, Cassius said:

And why not stone walls

If the city was sacked it may have been not rebuilt fully and or never had stone walls?

Might have been a combo with some stone and a wooden parapet like the Arola in Spain (I think that's what the illustration is below)?

Just curious as to everyone's thoughts... thanks!

[Joerg]

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

What year was it first built and if multiple reeditions were erected

No date is given. Derik led his counterstrike against Jaldon sometime in the 1420ies, around the Battle of Quintus Vale, His exodus would have started after it.

Without the Pol Joni horsemen as a screening force I don't see any Quivini moving into a town in the eastern foothills of the Storm Mountains.

It is possible that it took Sartar's intervention outside of Old Pavis (Thieves' Town, now Badside) to start Barbarian Town.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

why were they not on top of each other (due to the same need for a water source) or was it rebuilt in some seemingly better defensive location, thus the need to relocate it, not far for the water source?

Not sure whether the location was the same or different, but the situation was different in Harmast's time when the Verge was a plave out of sight of the unholy alliance between Palangio and Lokamayadon. Barbarian Town is a service center rather than a refuge.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

If it were burned did all the inhabitants die, were carried off or did they conduct a fighting retreat as the ton burned?

There was The Battle of the Verge which saw the death of Lokamayadon, but that may still have destroyed whatever infrastructure the refuge may have had.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Was it originally a watch tower and is it currently somewhat circular now, possibly like an Orlanth rune?

The original settlement by the Berennethtelli survivors may have been rather hidden (although how to deal with the necessary smoke is a question that may forbid hidden settlements, especially when Air magic is suppressed).

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Are the walls a wooden palisade or are they of stone?

Earthen ramparts, possibly with wooden facing, with palisades on top, drystone (or even Murus Gallicus). Wood for construction is relatively scarce east of the Storm Mountains and hard to transport away from rivers.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Assuming its a hilltop fort of sorts and it usually supports 750-1000 persons what is a currently detailed Sartarite city that it might  be compared to?

My head count for residents would be in the 500 range rather than the 800 range.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

What would it be like in the year 1600?

No Sartarite road leading there, not even secondary, as there is no resident population for upkeep on the way. (The Pavis Road doesn't really qualify as a road by Sartarite or board game standards, either.)

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

We'll assume a natural spring or underground aquifer with enough flow to support that many people and several hundred cattle and horses?

Fewer people, way fewer resident cattle and horses, but cisterns for emergency situations. Sieges in Prax are hard.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Is it maybe a head or tail of a sleeping Serpent of old?  

Hard to tell. This part of Prax was in the range of the flooded area east of Kethaela and Dragon Pass, so the water precedents may be difficult.

Barbarian Town is not a Praxian Oasis with its own water spirit, but a border place of the hill country with minor run-off from the mountains and possibly minor underground aquifers.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Do they use heavy crossbows in lieu of short ranged self bows the pigmy's on impalas use on the ramparts assuming there are some defensive walkways?

The Pol Joni are not known for strong skirmishing power, but given the lack of a skirmisher unit for the Dragon Pass Sun Domers, their lack in the Barbarian Horde of the board game doesn't tell us much.

Slings are good for defending ramparts, too, as are javelins.

 

On 1/6/2024 at 10:47 PM, Erol of Backford said:

Being there are horses there would there not be an Elmali shrine there as well?

Might as well be outside, the horse worshippers are nomadic after all.

[Ian_W]

On 1/7/2024 at 8:47 AM, Erol of Backford said:

What year was it first built and if multiple reeditions were erected, why were they not on top of each other (due to the same need for a water source) or was it rebuilt in some seemingly better defensive location, thus the need to relocate it, not far for the water source?

 

1 If it were burned did all the inhabitants die, were carried off or did they conduct a fighting retreat as the ton burned?

2 Was it originally a watch tower and is it currently somewhat circular now, possibly like an Orlanth rune?

3 Are the walls a wooden palisade or are they of stone?

4 Assuming its a hilltop fort of sorts and it usually supports 750-1000 persons what is a currently detailed Sartarite city that it might  be compared to?

5 What would it be like in the year 1600?

6 We'll assume a natural spring or underground aquifer with enough flow to support that many people and several hundred cattle and horses?

7 Is it maybe a head or tail of a sleeping Serpent of old?  

8 Do they use heavy crossbows in lieu of short ranged self bows the pigmy's on impalas use on the ramparts assuming there are some defensive walkways?

9 Being there are horses there would there not be an Elmali shrine there as well?

1 It happened a long time ago, and stories vary.

2. Not really - the current town is built on a cliff.

3. Mostly stone, some wood. Stone can be locally dug, but wood needs to be brought in.

4. None. Sartarite cities are built next to easily available water, while Barbarian Town was deliberately put where it was to prevent Beast Nomads watering their beasts.

5. Stinking of burning dung, as that's the local fuel for fires. Also, short of water.

6. Yes. Underground water, originally from the Stormwalk Mountains.

7/ No. Derek Poljoni, unlike Mary Sue, was no Dragon Worshipper with plot armor that made him immune from the downsides of dragon magic.

8. No, they aren't dwarfs.

9 Elmal Hosefriend was a thing when the city was founded, but by 1600 the Monrogh Debate - and the relative proximity of Barbarian Town to the Sun Domers of Prax probably means there isnt a shrine to Elmal Horsefiend.

Edited January 15 by Ian_W
Typos

[Erol of Backford]

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

3. Mostly stone, some wood. Stone can be locally dug, but wood needs to be brought in.

I thought the foothills of the Storm Walk Mts. are wooded?

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

4. None. Sartarite cities are built next to easily available water, while Barbarian Town was deliberately put where it was to prevent Beast Nomads watering their beasts.

Makes sense as the nomads wouldn't be able to siege without water source.

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

6. Yes. Underground water, originally from the Stormwalk Mountains.

Same thought.

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

7/ No. Derek Poljoni, unlike Mary Sue, was no Dragon Worshipper with plot armor that made him immune from the downsides of dragon magic.

Was meaning that the rivers and or underground rivers were called serpents in numerous location in Prax. Sorry that I wasn't clear about this. Possibly the head (or would it be tail) of a river serpent is under the location of the cliff fort.

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

2. Not really - the current town is built on a cliff.

I like this more than a hilltop fort.

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

8. No, they aren't dwarfs.

My mistake, was thinking some inhabitants were from Heortland and had more of a Western influence, used crossbows, but likely that is more for Knight Fort to the south, possibly some use of crossbows there but are not dwarves. YGWV?

8 hours ago, Ian_W said:

9 Elmal Hosefriend was a thing when the city was founded, but by 1600 the Monrogh Debate

Fair enough, maybe a hidden or forgotten shrine... Again YGMV.

Thanks for the topic Mr. West, and the responses Joerg and Ian.

[Ian_W]

On 1/16/2024 at 5:54 AM, Erol of Backford said:

I thought the foothills of the Storm Walk Mts. are wooded?

 

They are, but moving wood or water ten to fifteen kilometers from the foothills of the Storm Walk Mountains to Derek's Walls is the very definition of the Wages of Fear.

[Ynneadwraith]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:24 AM, Ian_W said:

5. Stinking of burning dung, as that's the local fuel for fires. Also, short of water.

Tiniest of caveats. Burning dried dung doesn't smell. Or rather, it doesn't smell altogether different from burning any other woody material.

It is smokier though, so I'd expect Barbarian Town to have a slightly different atmosphere to wood-burning places.

[Darius West]

On 1/15/2024 at 7:24 PM, Ian_W said:

9 Elmal Hosefriend was a thing when the city was founded, but by 1600 the Monrogh Debate - and the relative proximity of Barbarian Town to the Sun Domers of Prax probably means there isnt a shrine to Elmal Horsefiend.

I disagree with this point.  The Sun Domers are on the opposite side of Prax, and are the stay-at-home hoplite kind of Yelmalios.  Do they even have a mobile cavalry force?   In fact the Sun Domers of Sartar are closer.  

[Erol of Backford]

13 hours ago, Ian_W said:

They are, but moving wood or water ten to fifteen kilometers from the foothills of the Storm Walk Mountains to Derek's Walls is the very definition of the Wages of Fear.

I didn't realize it was so far from the foothills. I see it on the main Greg/Richard map as in or very close to Stormwalk Peak and in forested foothills on the AAA map.

Are they actually different towns as they are located 25 or more KM away from each other on these maps. Guessing the location on the Grag/Richard map is correct location close to Bullpen Mt.

I like it near Bullpen as it could more easily sit on a cliff of sorts as I see it.

What if any relation would BT/Exile Stead have with Marcher Ft? Likely none I am guessing as it's about as far away from it as Backford (besides the vert travel over the Mt. and the scorpionmen...)

Still like the idea of a small Emali shrine with some horse riders... YGMV.

Nice thread all. 

 

[jajagappa]

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

Guessing the location on the Grag/Richard map is correct location close to Bullpen Mt.

Yes.

1 minute ago, Erol of Backford said:

What if any relation would BT/Exile Stead have with Marcher Ft?

None. I think Jeff noted recently in an article on the Holy Country that Belintar created the Marcher Forts to help keep Praxian raiders at bay.

 

[Erol of Backford]

53 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

I think Jeff noted recently in an article on the Holy Country that Belintar created the Marcher Forts to help keep Praxian raiders at bay.

I didn't think so, quite far indeed but you never know, caravans skirting the foothills to avoid Herein or elsewhere? Do you have a link kind Sir to Jeff's article or was it that on the Aeolians?

[soltakss]

On 1/15/2024 at 8:24 AM, Ian_W said:

shrine to Elmal Horsefiend

I would love to see a writeup of Elmal Horsefiend, the demonic version of Elmal.

 

[Erol of Backford]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

Elmal Horsefiend

Of course that is what the Praxians call him?

[g33k]

9 hours ago, soltakss said:

I would love to see a writeup of Elmal Horsefiend, the demonic version of Elmal.

Of course "demonic" is VERY much a culturally-relative thing.

Some people will call Trolls "darkness demons;" and they wouldn't be wrong... even if they aren't entirely right, either.

[Erol of Backford]

19 minutes ago, g33k said:

"darkness demons"

They are of course.

[jajagappa]

18 hours ago, soltakss said:

a writeup of Elmal Horsefiend, the demonic version of Elmal.

Sounds like Yara Aranis, Terror and Eater of Horses! 😉 

[Joerg]

The carnivorous winged horses of the early Golden Age may very well count as terrible demons from above. While Hippoi lost some of those traits, there may well be intermediate states, or re-breeding efforts like the carnivorous stallion bred by the Char-un. When interacting with Godtime entities, horsefiends are a real option.

Another fiendish variation would be a horse retaining raptor claws that may be folded into hooves.

Edited January 21 by Joerg

[Ynneadwraith]

3 minutes ago, Joerg said:

The carnivorous winged horses of the early Golden Age may very well count as terrible demons from above. While Hippoi lost some of those traits, there may well be intermediate states, or re-breeding efforts like the carnivorous stallion bred by the Char-un. When interacting with Godtime entities, horsefiends are a real option.

Another fiendish variation would be a horse retaining raptor claws that may be folded into hooves.

...can horses heroquest to regain their wings/become carnivorous?

I bet the Hsunchen believe they can...

[Erol of Backford]

5 hours ago, Joerg said:

Another fiendish variation would be a horse retaining raptor claws that may be folded into hooves.

Just use a hippogryph and or griffin?

(Isn't there an inn in Barbarian Town called the Hippogryphs Rest or maybe its Ye Old Mitre?)

I suppose related to Barbarian Town there would be Hippogriffs (part horse due to region, lots of horses near Barbarian Town) rather than a griffin (speculation) but then again griffins visit Sun Dome and maybe, just maybe they come this way to get a meal of stormbull, I hear griffins really enjoy stormbull tartar?

One has to think that hippogryphs may also come over from Pegasys Plateau for a meal...

Additionally a few wasp ridders may stop in now and again to check out the marigolds growing near there...

Would trolls not stop through there on their way to Pavis from Troll Woods or the 

It would be cool if there were a pub Ye Old Mitre (yes stolen from London) that an oddball LM Sage owns which was basically a Pub/Library that his wife, an Issaries Merchant named Binky Godsell (younger cousin of Gringle) operates.

 

[jajagappa]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would trolls not stop through there on their way to Pavis from Troll Woods

Out of the way, and would force the trolls into crossing a lot of open, barren land where their shadows would be easily spotted by day and attacked. The way from the Troll Woods to Pavis would be north to Shadows Dance then around and down the Zola Fel.