Umathela vs Fonrit : orlanth vs Chaos?

[Manu]

if I simplify a little, Umathela is Malkion/Orlanth (Orlanth mainly on the battle field) and Fonrit is Chaos (or Chaos friendly).

 

The conflict is territorial (as in the Season wars), but also religious? Is Fonrit seen as 'Chaos' for the Orlanthists? (a little bit like the Lunar were invaders but also 'Chaos related'). the Slave (Fonrit) vs Freedom (Umathela orlanthists) is obvious.

Is there Uroxi in Umathela? Because there is not big Chaos nest close by (except maybe Fonrit)?

[Joerg]

The Orlanthi of Umathela were brought there from Maniria or Slontos, some via Jrustela. They weren't exactly like the Heortling Orlanthi of Kerofinela, Kethaela and Saird, but they had received Theyalan missionaries and adapted their ways of worship etc.

They may have found deities left behind by Desero's horde, though no humans or cattle. Desero's folk north of the Tarmo mountains would have lost their herds when the Mostali raised Somelz, and they would have been the first to be enslaved by the Vadeli of Chir/Oabil.

It is possible that descendants of Desero's Horde are among the wretched human slave population of Slon. It is possible that the Mostali bought from the Vadeli, like they did when the Vadeli annihilated the Tadeniti. In that case, the population of Slon is going to be a weird mixture of Westerners, Storm worshippers, Agimori (both Doraddi and Thinobutan), Fiwan and Veldang, all bereft of any remnants of their original culture, magic, and identity, creating a melange of all Gloranthan human types except the Easterners.

 

Uroxi aren't well suited for Pamaltelan Chaos - usually the creatures are few but immense, with the exception of the offspring of the Mother of Monsters. The Chaos corruption in Fonrit and the God Learner ruins is more subtle, and doesn't lend itself to maintain the storm khans like in the Praxian or Genertelan Orlanthi ecology. In the Storm Bull cult, you usually become Khan by killing a Chaos monster on your own, long before you become a hero able to slay huge emanations of Chaos. In Pamaltela, there may be Chaos worshippers one can slay with abandon, but that doesn't entitle a Storm Bull to become Khan. Yoranday might be a major exception with the Psychic Zoo and its Otherworld Monsters.

If you look at the Prophecies of the Hero Wars, it doesn't look like Umathela has the luxury to fall upon Afadjann, and Afadjann has even less opportunity to deal with Cerngoth as it has to fight the Blues uprising initiated when the Zaranistangi hero Gebel joins forces with the Fonritian rebel Gabaryanga, who challenges the basis of Fonritian society by returning a nation of blues like Vontabu (sponsored by the Jrusteli, later conquered by them anyway).

Enkloso is facing annihilation by dwarf machinations. The raising of Somelz is prepared by burning vast areas of forest, and the aldryami of Enkloso will rely heavily on their Umathelan allies to slow the Mostali destruction.

The coastal cities might think they can sit by while the hill tribes bear the brunt of the conflict, but once Slon starts moving, it will wrap around the Malki coasts and create another front in the north. They might need to ally with Terthinus to counter that threat. In the meantime, they might receive visits by Vadeli or Waertagi to make their lives miserable, or of course increased demands by Terthinus and his Malasp.

 

[Roko Joko]

6 hours ago, Manu said:

Is Fonrit seen as 'Chaos' for the Orlanthists? (a little bit like the Lunar were invaders but also 'Chaos related').

I think you'd want to decide whether and how these Heortling-Lunar elements apply to Umathela-Fonrit:

* a definite concept of chaos and prominent myths about it

* divinations about the red moon that clearly say it's evil

* visible chaotic magic like the Crimson Bat

[metcalph]

7 hours ago, Manu said:

The conflict is territorial (as in the Season wars), but also religious? Is Fonrit seen as 'Chaos' for the Orlanthists? (a little bit like the Lunar were invaders but also 'Chaos related'). the Slave (Fonrit) vs Freedom (Umathela orlanthists) is obvious.

IMO the chaotic permissiveness of Fonritan religion is something that has only just been realized (previously a Big Secret among the Rulers, the Vadeli made it known to everyone) and the communities are still coming to terms with it.  It's not as if they have a well-developed philosophy about the purpose and use of chaos as the Lunars do.  

The Orlanthi may have damned certain Fonritans as chaotics (just as they may have damned their own) but the idea that the entire religion might be (or, to be more precise, could become) chaos-friendly is something that has yet to sink in.  

[boztakang]

It could be worth noting that ultimately, Orlanth "defeated" chaos by running away from it and asking for help ;-)

[jajagappa]

35 minutes ago, Roko Joko said:

I think you'd want to decide whether and how these Heortling-Lunar elements apply to Umathela-Fonrit:

* a definite concept of chaos and prominent myths about it

* divinations about the red moon that clearly say it's evil

* visible chaotic magic like the Crimson Bat

Also the Lunars are inheritors of the myths of the Evil Emperor who held the world bound by Order and Stasis.  I think this is going to be a very prominent aspect between Umathelans and Fonritians.  Ompalam and his slavery fall very much in line with the Evil Emperor here.  In Fonrit, even Orlanth has submitted to his will (at least in certain places).  For the Umathelans, I'd expect them to draw heavily on the power of change and rebellion against this (and maybe much more so than any recognition of chaos in Fonrit).  

[Joerg]

11 minutes ago, boztakang said:

It could be worth noting that ultimately, Orlanth "defeated" chaos by running away from it and asking for help ;-)

Uz would say so, yes, but we have two cases of Orlanth winning over Chaos - when he cast down Tyram from the Skies, and a much lesser but significant to uz incident during the Westfaring when he sided with the wester Uz against the Lesser Kajabori. As a defener of the earth against Chaos he is notoriously useless, but maybe he realized how permissive his wife's  kin was towards all kinds of suitors, even Chaos.

[davecake]

I agree with Peter that the innately Chaotic nature of Fonritian society is not generally acknowledged, or was not until recently. That the more decadent elements of Fonritian society accepted Chaos was known, but seen as corrupted individuals. 

The tendency of Pamaltelan Chaos to appear as smaller numbers of more dangerous and more chaotic beings should not be overstated. Just as Genertela has the occasional monstrous Chaos beast like the Bat or the Hydra of the Hydra Hills or Cwim, Pamaltelan has the occasional Chaos horde of broo or nest of grue. I don't think it's likely to have much effect on the social role of Urox, that is down to other things. In particular, using Chaotic sorcery may not always make the user Chaos tainted, so while Sense Chaos is handy in general subtler skills than the Uroxi possess are needed.