davecake

It is certainly less powerful than the equivalent spell cast on a hand to hand weapon - but then, hand to hand weapons generally need to boost less (because their damage it often higher) and parries usually block it. A Firearrow or a Multimissile (especially against a lightly armoured oponent) can often be devastating from ambush, a Speedart really helps a moderately skilled archer become a threat.

I saw the Jodorowskys Dune documentary with all the Chris Foss spaceship design and Giger design work, reminds me of that.

The final version will change I’m sure, but in detail almost certainly not format at this point.

It has more deities than RQ3 Gods of Glorantha, almost all in Cults of Prax level detail long form writeups. And solid overview material for the different pantheons too. It is an epic work.

David, thank you for that. The information about Helpwoman was very useful.

Black Arkat in HQG was linked to Argan Argar and the Nightcult, but that is the (smaller) one in the Troll Woods, not the one in Arkats Hold.

That’s the Horned God tradition. Less bonuses, but less restriction, than other shamanic traditions.

I’m a little surprised the Twin Stars are in the ‘has shamans’ category. It would make them the only shamanic cult in the Praxian culture that is largely restricted to a single tribe, and out side of the classic cults of Prax nomad gods, so quite a notable change to Praxian culture.

RQG is a bit unclear (and I suspect very intentionally) on the difference between a Great Spirit and a god, and there is significant overlap between deities that grant magic via shamans and that grant magic through priests or rune lords - Waha, Daka Fal, Yu-Kargzant/Yelm. And then there are cults that seem to be essentially theistic in the way they operate, but that allow members to be shamans. There are a few shades of grey here too. Storm Bull for example, is not shamanic, but is partly animist, their spirits are an important cult power. Waha khans aren’t shamans, but still have spirit summoning powers. But Eiritha doesn’t appear to have really integrated animism into their cult practices much at all, which is surprising - this diagram suggests that happens via Helpwoman, which I don’t know much about.

Hsunchen still use Rune magic in RQ3. I think there is a bit more to it than that though - 8 points of Rune magic seems a lot, there may be other ways for them to transform.

Not always true - not all Illuminates possess all powers. There are Illuminates who still register on Sense Chaos. I don’t think this applies to most Lunars, though.

It will come up in my Tarsh based campaign pretty soon. But I expect my players (the PCs are close allies of Fazzur) will be... playing a different role in that battle. Quite likely one that involves teleporting. Wow, funny how that guy providing the teleport magic looks like a Mastakos cultist. You'd think he should be on the other side, that's odd 🤔🤫

Yes, paid close attention to that thread, and it's great work (and that chart is actually an AMAZING bit of information design). But some of that seems to have changed since then - Jeff has, as he does, changed a lot of his opinions. For example I do not think Eiritha is presented as having a shaman path anymore (essentially, the nomad gods have gone back to how they were presented in RQ 3). I think this is much more likely to be (both in RQG and Glorantha IMO) a single shamanic cult/pathway/Spirit Society, but that has a bunch of Associated Cults/commonly associated spirit cults/known interesting spirits (and these distinctions are mostly rules ones). So there is one way to lead you to get a Fetch via Jakaleels tradition, but plenty of other options to explore on the side. And I think that is generally how most (though not all) shamans operate - you don't get a giant buffet of rune magic powers like a major theist cult, but there is plenty else you can order of the menu or construct yourself from ingredients. As an aside, I think we have about three different sets of terminology at least here - HQG, RQG, David's - and is does get confusing because shamanism and divine magic are much more clearly distinct in HQ than they are in RQG, but the distinction here is between traditions that have a path to shamanism or not - in HQG terms, include a Spirit Society. There are lots of cults around that can be approached as s spirit cult, and so shamans join and get cool stuff for them and their communities/friends, but don't offer a path to becoming a shaman. Oakfed is a good example. And all three of those white cross bars in that diagram are spirit cults tat are in that category - Many Friends, Hidden Paths, The Other Leaders. I think Jakaleel is mostly well integrated into the Lunar religion that it is more useful to them to just grab magic as an Associated Cult rather than a Spirit Cult (in game terms, in Gloranthan terms just go along to worship ceremonies of her fellow Lunar gods rather mess around with establishing a independent connection on the spirit plane) but there probably are some Spirit Cults/Traditions that it is worth them investigating (generally ones that go outside the Lunar traditions) I absolutely agree on the whole Twin Stars always having been Lunar thing. It is a key point in Dara Happan history (why Jannisor's Rebellion failed) . But I differ from David in that I think they probably don't have their own indepenent shamanic path - I think they are a Tradition/Spirit Cult the way the other celestial powers are in Prax, and not a Spirit Society/Shamanic cult. So I think the Sable shamans are mostly Waha or Daka Fal, they've just favoured the Twin Stars. But I haven't heard David's argument otherwise, and we don't have a recent Prax book to answer it for us. Sounds about right, all of those techniques sound like things they might try. And while I think they have created a shamanic pathway, a lot of what they do past that point is improvised and not very standardised - they are trying to quickly Illuminate a lot of them, and their goal is to eventually bash them into something resembling a Lunar College of Magic combat unit (though in practice much more hybrid like most SMU units) The Lunars are enthusiastic mystics, but also terribly bad ones.

The percentage that go crazy in the process is surely smallish. At least, permanently crazy. A few weeks time out in the facilities for those experiencing some awkwardness in their relationship with consensus reality is just part of the process. (I seriously would not put it past the Empire to encourage people along with Madness spells now and then). But yeah - producing lots of Illuminates is a major priority of an actual Empire, as Illuminates (and even more, Red Goddess initiates, who must be Illuminated to be even considered, and get to learn some fancy special magic, not to mention accumulate Chaos powers and collect Lunar rune magic at a rate). They have multiple schools of Illumination, by which I mean actual learning institutions some of them with branches in multiple major cities, supported at the highest possible levels (especially Great Sister).

Lunar Deer I've always seen as more of a spirit cult rather than a shamanic tradition. But that still leaves two, yes - Jakaleel the Witch (whose priesthood are shamans, and have both Lunes and Ghosts, plus at least small Darkness elementals as well) and the Red School of Masks (the Loonies). I think of the Red School as a bit more ad hoc, the Empire grabbing every spirit magician it can find who might have useful information about the Praxian landscape. A lot of them are probably Sable tribe shamans of various kinds and they are summoning both Lunar spirits and native Praxian Lunar connected spirit cults (like the Silver Deer) known to the Sables . When they say that 'many who seek to join are driven made by the experience' that sounds to me like they are trying to put them on an express route to Illumination. And Sable Tribe Shamans, though they probably become shamans through Waha or Daka Fal rites, can still join Lunar connected Spirit Cults.

I can't put a firm number on it, but at the very least: - every member of the Red Goddess Cult is Illuminated - everyone admitted to status of Yelm Imperator (as they must all now be good Lunars too, by order of the Emperor) - at least every Major Class magician in the Lunar College of Magic, probably many more. There are active schools of Ilumination in the Empire who teach it - very different to being in the provinces. A Lunar magician who wants to become Illuminated and has the right resources and connections will probably do so inside a few years. So easily into the tens of thousands at least, I would think.

I don't think any are exclusively shamanistic. The SMU innovatively combines multiple magical forms. But units that almost certainly have a significant amount of shamanism involved include the Eaglebrown Warlocks, whose wyter is the Thunderbird a major Praxian Spirit, and the Snakepipe Dancers, who probably include lots of Earth Witch shamanic women.

I think troll worship of Arkat allows combining Kygor Litor practices with sorcery. I think this requires Arkati Illumination at least if it includes Kygor Litor shamanism. But I think there are a vanishingly small number in that category in the Dragon Pass region - Guhan or Halikiv maybe a different story. I think there are shamanic Illumination traditions, but they are mostly far away from Dragon Pass. Pamaltela, or Fronela.

Natural Illuminates? No. Illuminates due to another Illuminate trying to teach Illumination? Quite a few, including literally almost everyone in the Lunar Empire who holds a position of significant authority.

Occlusion is just a fancy Lunar word meaning 'when an Illuminated person behaves in a way that another Illuminate thinks is crazy'. So I'm sure it is true, but I'm not sure what it means. Well, it's going to be more common where there are other mystics around - but that is at least The Lunar Empire, Kralorela, the East Isles, Ralios. And it sure helps if you are the sort of chaotic being that is likely to interact with the Illuminates in question (so, mostly ogres or corrupted humans). That was a lot more than just Illumination, that was a major heroquest.

There are so many. Storm Voices are required to eat eggs once a week as a sign of contempt for Yelm. Not just eat them, but eat them contemptuously. Waha initiates only are allowed to purchase the intoxicating mushroom drinks from the dark elves of Shadows Dance. On the coasts of Pamaltela, the Trickster is associated with Catsup sauce. Some Tricksters have spells to temporarily turn themselves into a dirty shirt or a literal pile of shit. There are east isles minor gods, like Comb and Braid whose cult ensures everyone on his tiny island has a magnificent hairstyle. Yelmalio’s very specific ruled against transvestism (and the many fan theories).

Hero quests don't really have all that much to do with HeroQuest. I really do want RQG heroquest rules, but the choice between HQG and RQG is about gaming styles.

Some would, maybe even most, but certainly not all.

There is a huge amount of value to be gained just from taking 'finished' characters from one system in to another. Take the output of Cradle of Heroes and put it straight into an online play tool, or a formatting tool that puts it straight into the format for a Jonstown Compendium product or other tool, or a simple character tracker app on an iPad. And to be able to do that whether it is a carefully crafted character from Cradle of Heroes, or a whole party of monsters from something similar to the magnificent Mythras Encounter Generator. A (strict) superset of that that allows you to potentially move half completed characters from one character creator to another is going to be tricky to do in a portable way, but as long as you can do it as a strict superset you can deal with it later in the process, after a first pass. Be happy to, though almost everyone finds my time zone (UTC +8, Western Austalia) pretty awkward.

It seems to be the core technique of Eastern Dream magic, but that doesn't mean it isn't used by others, and that it doesn't overlap into other traditions. Gorgorma has nightmare magic, Waha has Borabo Nightmare, Thed visits her worshippers in nightmare to share secret passphrases, and so on.