Joerg

There seems to have been a one-way-trip from Hell to Hell by the Waertagi, daring the Closing, possibly riding on a massive tidal wave, but there may have been other things. The last message from Jrustela received in Seshnela (at least a year before the sinking) was "Damn the Torpedoes" - part of a famous quote from admiral Farragut rushing into enemy mines at the battle of Mobile Bay. There were no surviving witnesses of the destruction of Jrustela, unlike that of Old Seshnela. While all humans seem to have been exterminated or mutated (see the strange island with the animal-headed giants in the center of the archipelago), their timinit associates seem to have survived just fine, although without the level of culture they seemed to have adopted. The Waertagi had used up their island-sinking magic against the associate empire of Golden Mokato, mentioned only once in the Guide. The next use of that magic seems to have been aimed at the home of the Free Men of the Sea instead who had burned half the Waertagi population at Tanian's Victory, a disaster much worse than the indecisive outcome of the battle against Mokato. And that is assuming that the Waertagi were the only party to attack Jrustela, which most likely was not the case. The initially hostile spirits of the place may have been involved as well. Umathela was savaged by tidal waves, but I don't recall any Waertagi involvement that late. Instead, we get Terthinus, Voice of the Deep, and his Malasp allies. Who, given the Malasp presence in drowned Jrustela, might have been involved there, too. Errinoru blatantly sailed the seas claimed by the Middle Sea Empire, without any major attempt to intecept him that we know of. Vralos is one of the few atrocities committed by westerners against the forest lords. The only other one I know off-cuff is that of the third Serpent King against an aldryami forest, despite being married to the daughter of the lord of the other forest in Old Seshnela. Vralos may have been more prone to devastating fires than the rainforest of Errinoru, too. Magical blight is a different topic, as that was what ended the Errinoru genus of yellow elves. One thing that hindered the triumph of the God Learners was their fragmentation into different groups, each claiming to know the best way to achieve magical mastery over the world. Many of these playing around with native myths, some through clssical Zzaburi domination game over lesser entities which then serve as mediators for greater ones, others imitating native rites for ritual support for their breaking and entering. Few God Learners actually embraced the theist worship of their deities, one of the more successful of these were the founders of the cult of Caladra and Aurelion. I would not hold my breath for Second Age sourcebooks from Chaosium, other than what was prepared in the Stafford Library for an earlier, less philosophical, more chuchy interpretation of Malkionism. And while some of the Second Age books by Mongoose expanded on material by Greg Stafford, few of the early ones received any attention by Greg (other than sending invoices for late license fees), and the later ones which started to pay attention to the 2nd Age material provided by Greg met the end of said license. There were two (early) Mongoose books on the God Learners, about Jrustela and the Clanking City, reprinting some of Greg's primer material and expanding it in unexpected directions, and of course some general information on their sorcery (not compatible with RQG or HQG).

Nobody except for the God Learners dared to move deities around, or invent new ones from nothing just for sake of experimentation. The Arkati credo was to enter the realm of myth only with humility and respect. The God Learner questers lacked both.

Disregarding the dwarf version of sorcery, the application of sorcerous techniques on runes was the signature magic of the mythical Kingdom of Logic in the western (triangular) quarter of Glorantha, but practitioners of this kind of magic pop up elsewhere as early as the earliest trips of Logicians outside of their triangle of the world. The Vithelans have the story about three sons of Vith and Gebkeran who ventured outside of Vithela to master the magics of the north (theism), the south (animism) and the west (sorcery), although from their perspective it is all in the west. Whether it is thanks to this early venture or whether it is the result of underworld origins and connections, but many of the adpara antigods or antigod races know and apply sorcery, e.g. the huan-to of Kralorela. While merfolk generally practices theism or animism, the Zabdamar of Kahar's Sea of Fog practice sorcery, and certain sea entities other than the Waertagi and their hybrid offspring do as well. Any knowledge god worth the claim would have a grasp of the fundamentals of sorcery. There are many faces of Lhankor Mhy. Waertagi, Kachisti and Vadeli spread sorcery, and at least the Vadeli also sold that magical knowledge when it served their nefarious purposes.

There are two periods to God Learner heroquesting. Initially, spurred on by the arrival of the Abiding Book, there was a sudden boost to the Jrusteli sorcerers' ability to cause huge magics, like the fires that burnt most of Vralos in Umathela (even before the Battle of Tanian's Victory) or when the Free Men of the Sea (or so) commanded a lesser celestial water deity to summon Tanian, God of Burning Waters, down onto the Waertagi fleet and their triolini allies. As far as I can tell, these made use of the RuneQuest Sight, a magical perception of the forces of the universe as impersonal energies onto which sorcery could be applied. A technique which no longer works after the cataclysms that ended the Second Age (and not exactly for lack of practitioners who used to be able to use it, despite all that hubbub about the Gift Bearers of the Sending Gods in Umathela whose activities may have culminated in the Cult of Silence). Armed with this kind of superior magic and egged on by their manifest destiny to spread Rightness, the Jrusteli colonists liberated the sad remnants of the Kingdom of Seshnela from a client of a Tanisoran lord - probably an Archon of Arkat's Autarchy, but possibly a successor of an earlier Tanisoran royalty. They succeeded, to a good part thanks to a new movement of monastic sorcerers studying the heck out of the Abiding Book. Whether the Autarchy was to blame or not, the Jrusteli overlords of Seshnela went on to conquer the Autarchy continuing the trumped-up accusations Nralar the Old had uttered when the Archon had ignored his presumptious demand for tribute upon his coronation. There they came into closer contact with Arkat's creative and systematic brand of heroquesting, something that none of the Gbaji War returner men-of-all to Seshnela had participated in. Still, their Abiding Sorcery proved to be powerful enough to advance piecemeal, and by 740 the last Archon Paslac had been overcome. While they advanced, they found few of the Arkati writings about their secrets, despite intensive searching and raiding for such. It took their researchers half a century to decipher a cryptic magical book which offered an entryway into Creative HeroQuesting with a chance at mapping the Hero Plane. When that finally succeeded, the thing that we know and dread as God Learner HeroQuesting began in earnest, starting with systematic elimination of the Arkati Guardians of intersections. The God Learners combined cultic knowledge with the distanced perspective of RuneQuest Sight, allowing them to deconstruct obstacles as manifestation of runes which they then would manipulate sorcerously when going with the myth was too hard, required too much submission to the deity, or was otherwise inconvenient. A bit like Donald J. Trump Junior taking a sniper rifle to Afrika to shoot a trophy, rather than attempting a hunt with a modicum of personal risk and exposure to the environment. The God Learner heroquesting was aiming to conquer the immortal landscape, with significant initial success, and repercussions only slowly appearing. The episode with the Raccoon Guardian of Tusunimmi Ford (in the Guide) is one such example, apparently ridiculous in its consequences, except for unforeseen after-effects. And the God Learners had competition - the EWF with its experimentation with Dragon Magic, continuation of Second Council experimentation including sorcery, the Yellow Elf empire of Errinoru which created a magical network of forests interfering with the God Learner explorations, naval forces in the East Isles as able to rebut the Empire of the Middle Sea as they had been to rebut the Waertagi before them, and sloppy establishment of altered myths which did not stand up in the face of deeper secrets known to the natives. Although most importantly they were stopped by Zzabur's Curse of the Closing, and internal disunity centering on Halwal, a God Learner setting out on a dissenting quest of redemption that did not succeed enough to avert the later cataclysms. For all their heroquesting acumen, which had first created and later dealt with the Firebergs, was powerless before the Closing, only succeeding in sending a few ships successfully through the Closing, which adapted to catch such exceptions.

The tidal wave of the Devastation of the Vent happened first and foremost in the medium of Earth, bedrock, and sea bottom, with the calming effect of the Mirrorsea possibly dampening overt surface waves, and the extensive mudflats off the Heortland coast denying a buildup of momentum through water movement alone. If the event happened at high tide, the ripples in the sea bottom would have been able to translate the force, though, but in a manner drastically different from the assaults of Worcha. We don't know the details about the location of Miskos, but there is a good chance that it was built on essentially a sedimentary area of similar material as the mudflats. The North Frisian city of Rungholt, situated on the Treene estuary on the island of Strand, inside such a mudflat area. In case of Rungholt, the material below the city area was a former side arm of the estuary that had silted up but that was mobilized by the pressure of the Mandrenke, resulting in a normally non-catastrophic mudslide below the surface which sank the area by a meter or two. Given the conditions of the Mandrenke, this was enough to lower the artificial hillocks of the settlement even further, exposing them to the currents and wave action of the North Frisian coast. No such conditions on the Mirrorsea Bay, though - even Storm Season doesn't disturb the surface enough to produce dangerous breakers. But a series of earth tremors creating a mudslide is an option. Alexandria is an example for a very slow slide into the water, Neaopolis in northern Africa another one. Depending on the architecture, there might be portions of drowned Miskos you might travel through on the Fish Road.

Given the New World flavors of much of Genertela, why shouldn't Fethlon have rubber trees or coca leaves, or other Amazonas jungle plant life??

Native Pavisites can be thought of as survivors out of an atomic bomb shelter with some limited and not necessariy wholesome food production after having been confined there for 300 years hidiing from their company of man-eating monsters (trolls),

Going by the systematic name for the species of the Durulz (antatanthropus Donaldi, and how weird that this is not anatanthropus Howardi?), it is "anatantrhopomorphize".

There was a bunch of historical maps of Old Pavis in the HQ2 book Pavis: Gateway to Adventure which - while not at a better scale - gave you an idea of how the city in various parts looked when intact, allowing you to extrapolate how things in ruin may have inherited features sketched in the older maps. Unfortunately, that book floats in trademark limbo along with the other HQ2 books, requiring a new layout with all mentions of HeroQuest (as a trademark) replaced by Questworlds. No idea whether Ebay or Amazon might have an affordable second hand hardcopy. Definitely worth it for covering the more recent history, introducing a number of characters, like Jorjera Latish (of 1625 in Jonstown).

Also, impossible ideas are only slightly harder to implement by heroquesting than difficult ones.

Slight correction: Two of the ten books are actually different - the Prosopaedia and the Mythology Book don't have these collections of long cult write-ups.

Mostal is dead.

Humidity is a killer for papyrus, which is why there are hardly any sources for West Roman Empire administration prior to the conquest of Egypt by the Caliphate (when papyrus supply was interrupted and Frankish scribes had to switch to Vellum). I suppose it is the combination of cold climate (when the scrolls don't dry out again that easily) and humidity which kills papyrus, as the humidity won't be taken away regularly by heat. The small Ice Age that coincided with the collapse of the Western Roman emperors (not its administration, though) may have played a role in this, with a sudden greater demand for heating. Daga in a jar.

There is a Pamalt that the aldryami love, and a lesser one (the one walking with the Doraddi) which is their enemy. Up north, the distribution between Genert and Tada used two different names, down south both aspects have the same name.

It it was just the short-lived yellow elf males, I wouldn't be worried, but there are dryads and a great tree that might have noticed things like Flamal killed or the sun going AWOL before Time.

In Pamaltela, there is Pamalt's Necklace. I don't recall any mention of actions of mortals in crucial activities in the later part of the Gods War. There is a portion of the Yellow Elf jungles that did not even notice the Gods War (although I take that to be a bit of an exaggeration, or otherwise a disconnection from the world as a Hidden Castle, or a mass memory loss). There was an unholy alliance between (some of) the Artmali and Chaos that is at best hinted at but never going to any detail. Not even in the Artmali uprising prophecy/arc inthe Guide.

I think that you are agreeing with @Jens again.

IMG, not evn Mostal the Maker could change adamant once it was given a form. Mastal and his children can form/set Truestone (or originally Stone) into Adamantine items. The Spike itself is True Stone, not adamant - otherwise the Block wouldn't have much of an effect on the Devil.

Oases in Kothar, as in places where sedentary folk practice horticulture on places protected by special local spirits. Possibly fewer of these, but Kothar approaches the Nargan Desert, too, with a decrease in fertility. The Kresh interact with a majority of non-wagon folks, whether sedentary (oases) or nomadic hunting/"transhumant gardening".

This brings to me the imagery of munchkin vampire candidates laid in state as "the Complete Adventurer":

Use of dragon magic under the right circumstances furthers draconic development - it helps the dragonhood candidate (whether EWF mystic or dragonewt) to encompass being a dragon by taking on more and more draconid traits. Looking at Ingolf Dragonfriend's development, the wings aren't just a means of flying but also an adaptation to some of the Draconic Otherworlds (msleadingly named Draconic Hells) on the mystical path towards achieving unity with the Source. IMG, dragonewts don't hatch from their eggs. They emanate, much like Dream Dragons, as the egg extrapoilates the dragonhood characteristics that its immature parent could not contribute to its racial memory. It is said that the dragonewts in Dragon Pass survived in weakness, whereas the dragonewts in Kralorela survived in strength. To me, one expression of this weakness are the dinosaurs, physical beings hatching from mis-developed dragon eggs destroying the egg in the process (unlike the emanation of another body for the dragonewt ego to inhabit). The (arche-) typical dragonewt egg seems to have been hatched in Godtime, making all time travel theories moot. The question is how did the number of dragonewts multiply from the roughly 5000 at Dragon's Eye at the Dawn to the tens of thousands in Genertela west of the Shan Shan if no new eggs were added? Or was there such a huge number of dormant eggs (without any current body for their egos) that dragonewt activity managed to activate more? In late 2nd Age Peloria, thousands of dragonewt eggs were destroyed: ending those potential dragons, or possibly sending them off into a Dragonewts Dream that manifested in Glorantha about 90 years before the date of the setting? IMO that's one of the fates of the barbarian dragonewts - when they die, their eggs fall dormant for quite a while before a new body for the ego is manifested. A dormant egg might even give up much of the substance it loaned from its environment, retreating into a much smaller physical reality leaving behind a small feature of geology or similar. To come back to dragon magic, the "adult" stage of it is to integrate the material world around a True Dragon into its self, assimilating surrounding hills etc. into its ego.

The date of that map is 1586, hardly part of the Theyalan expansion in the Dawn Age but part of spreading the Opening to the East.

There is also Ormsfang as one of the Greatway Mountains.

Finally finding the time to give this a read-through. Is there a place for reporting typos or formatting problems? I found a few lines to be missing from the Delargaraeo entry in the list of Enfranchised Houses, truncated after "Opposed the voyage of Dormal; was present at the return of Dormal and". In the line above, another interesting find: Ancestress of the Desdelaeo is Desdel, the twin brother of Delargara, children of Kimantor and Norinel. Given the continued existence of House Norinel, we can assume that Norinel had other daughters before accepting Kimantor, too.

I got inspired to a new weird expansion of my "Mostal is a von Neumann-probe" theory by a question about Sedenya on the Chaosium Discord: https://discord.com/channels/311619921639505922/311638496412565505/1137668946544308234 Basically, the Pseudocosmic Egg is a hatchling universe, one to be spawned into the Void outside of Glorantha. During the Sunstop it released not just Osentalka the Perfect God (a re-incarnation of Rashoran) but also the Young Elementals. In episode 24 of the God Learners podcast I speculated about there having been eight of these eggs, as eight is a significant number in the Mostali cosmogeny. And coincidentally there were eight planetary sons of Yelm, one of them being Verithurus(a), nowadays identified as a emanation or incarnation of Sedenya. What struck me now is the question whether Sedenya may be the (yet unborn) soul of the daughter universe of Glorantha still trapped inside the Pseudocosmic Egg, creating emanations of herself to act in the universe of her mother much like the immature dragon egg of a dragonewt does. What if all the planetary sons of Yelm are emanations of the future universes, learning from the current emperor of the world? What if Rashoran was an attempt by the Sedenya egg (which later birthed Osentalka) to lessen the impact of the Gods War? The transitory nature of Lunar Glamour would be explainable through this, and the Red Goddess's (and Nysalor's) establishing an alternate reality inside Glorantha. A similar potential, though other emanations, would have to be applied to Shargash, and possibly to the other (lost?) planetary sons (due to Umath's invasion of the Sky World).