metcalph

Zenshin thoughts (aka making sense of Vormaini colour magic). While the western sorcerers split sorcery into six techniques, each based on the five actions, it seems to me that the Zenshin might base it on the colours instead. Their techniques are not concerned with the origin of the Cosmos but in describing current reality. Since several Vormaini Gods are denoted as being in charge of those magics, their worshippers might receive special sorceries depending on how close they are to their god (analogous to western caste magic but I'm probably reaching). The Imperial Caste have access to all colour blessings while the Zenshin have their own "curses" instead.

I'm currently thinking of the Valkarists as a traditional Malkioni school. Their God is Martalak rather Makan but that just makes them the same as the Carmanians who worship Idovanus but are still Malkioni. I don't think the distinction that the Middle Sea Empire made between Makan and Malkioneran is at all relevant these days. The Valkarists were opposed to the God Learners not over the nature of the Cosmos but about the teachings of Pilif (a wizard who attempted to seize power in Seshnela). They fled to the Eastern Isles to set up their perfect society and were tolerated by the Middle Sea Empire in that they had a common enemy in the Eastern Seas Empire. Therer would be a great deal of interchange in magics between the Valkarists and the Sages. For example my suggested Sagely magics of reducing runic affinities could be inverted by the Valkarists to make their Spearmen more potent with the magic of the Gods. The Sages will view this as an entanglement in the world but the Valkarists don't care - they are content with the Mind of Martalak. The Zenshin of Vormain are probably sorcerors. I'm enthusiastic as the next guy about introducing non-Japanese elements to Vormain in that I've pondered having the Githyo clan as having Githyanki hairstyles. Rather than collect magical energies from the land for use in their own magical projects with a fair bit going to strengthening the nobles and the army, the Zenshin spend their magics in great feats of magical engineering to make the Joserui more potent. The Vormaini landscape has a faintly contrived feel with magical dams and reservoirs dotting the countryside willy-nilly. They make little consideration for the ordinary people such that a haunt for demonic spirits might lie less than a stone's throw away from a mortal village.

The Telmori don't follow the Orlanthi definition of when the day starts because they have been tainted with chaos. 'nuff sid.

I think the "wot is the difference between a silence movement?" should have been "wot is the difference between silence and movement?". Chaosium's then editors led slip through done howlers such as the mysterious "Tehri" in AH's Gods of Glorantha (actually a double typo for "Their").

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IMO Lhankor Mhy sorcery can't actively flourish because they are too obsessed with knowledge rather than magic. They will always be beaten into third place by the Zzaburi (regardless of which school they come from). Lhankor Mhy is important in Ralian lands but the further westward one goes, I think he will displaced by the rival cult of Enroval the Philosopher whose worship is more compatible with the Zzabuiri mindset.

Lath Eskan is specified as being in Tarien, not Kothar, but a quick squiz of the map failed to show a location.

Well, they are accepted in Sartar. Anywhere there is an Orlanthi city, Lhankoring sorcerors are there as part of society. The only places where they are not likely to be are places that don't have Orlanthi (eg Kralorela) or are hostile to Orlanthi (eg Heartlands).

I think that a large strand of sagely eastern isles sorcery would be more about suppressing runic affinities within oneself and others in order to achieve that state of detachment. Thus Suppress Fiery Tempers will reduce any fire affinity by 5% per point of spell (say) whereas lengthy meditation under the magical influence is needed to make the reduction enduring.

Could you at least write your own opinions to the original question rather than going line by line through other peoples? At the very least it's much more readable.

As far as I understand Glorantha, pretty much all civilized countries have had sorcerers since mythical times. Since the Vadeli reached Pamaltela and the Waertagi Prax and Peloria, it's no stretch to assume knowledge of sorcery would have reached Kralorela and the Eastern Isles if they had not already invented it then. My own beliefe is that they did invent it independently, but received great wisdom from the Malkioni in mythical times such that a) they can honestly claim to have invented it themselves and b) the Malkioni can honestly think they taught sorcery to the Eastern islanders. The dwarves aren't really sorcery users and I prefer to think that most civilized humans could come up with the principles of sorcery themselves rather than decipher dwarven magic.

It's not known that the Peloria gets thrashed in the end. All that has been described a battle in Holay and a battle in the upper Arcos Valley. The effect of those battles were leadership changes (Sheng Seleris kills the Red Emperor and founds the Shadow Moon Empire etc). Dragon Pass on the other hand has a Lunar Army marching through Boldhome and even when they have been made to leave, I doubt their damage will disappear quickly. We know the Monster Empire is bad. What we don't know is how the other lands around it fared.

The Ice Mines (based on Pompeii and Fringe) Within the Glaciers that surround the Monster Empire are several settlements that were unlucky enough to be caught. They have not been ground to rubble beneath the Ice but rather quick-frozen - a cold mist descended upon the settlement and in one terrible instant turned into Ice. The people inside are presumably still alive for nothing ever dies in the Monster Empire. But most Ice Miners care little for them. Instead they tunnel into frozen ruins seeking treasures and other artifacts that could be sold to realize a profit. Because it imperils the borders of the Empire that keeps out uncontrolled chaos, Ice mining is one of the few activities that Ralzakark has pronounced to be High Treason. Due to the nature of the Empire, the Ice Miners generally labour for an imperial dignitary and protector. The frequent appearances of chaotic hordes in their lands is apparently worth it.

Neverdead is known as a "Zombie Zoo" rather than home to undead of every kind.

Addressing the commonality of sorcery in the East Isles: Most of the Eastern Islanders worship their local Parondpara with a minority worshipping the Parloth and Avanparloth. That is, they are members of Rune and Spirit Cults. The worshippers of Korudel would know some sorcery (as, like Buserian and Lhankor Mhy, he is a face of the Knowing God there) but it's really only knowledge spells rather than full-blown manipulation of the Cosmos. Sorcerers proper (full-time casters of sorcery spells) would be rare outside the Jabbi Isles and Vormain. That said, the Middle Sea Empire controlled the western isles (up to the Boil and the Andin and Pearl Isles going by Jeff's map) so they people of those places would have more experience of sorcerers than those from the Five Chains, Hanfarador and Mokato.

Zaktirra of Vormain and Martalak are known practitioners of sorcery. I also believe that the Sages (Nenduren etc) use sorcery to transform their souls (rather than pointless external effects as the Westerners do).

We have a description of one of the cradle lootings in the 2nd age (Pavis: Threshold to Danger p116-117) which doesn't mention a Gold Wheel Dancer. Hence I don't believe they're necessary. The presence of a Gold Wheel Dancer probably increased the protection on the Cradles but the Giants could have sent the Cradles down without a Dancer simply because they had no choice.

Storm Bull worship in the Monster Empire. The worshippers of Storm Bull within the Empire believe, like their Praxian colleagues, that Chaos is evil. Where the Monstrous differ is that they believe that Chaos is everywhere and threatens their souls. Only through regular manifesting the Rage of the Bull can they keep their souls free. They fight for that glorious time where their rage will turn into the Eternal Battle and they would never fear Chaos every again. The Storm Bullmen of the Monster Empire do not attack chaotics on sight for they know everything they kill just comes back again. Instead they willingly submit themselves to the authority of Ralzakark and he is return offers them a place with the Empire where they can regularly bask in the Rage of the Bull. They know that Ralzakark is one of the worst but in the hell they dwell in, obedience to him is the best choice they have. They are his personal bodyguards, they fight against the chaotics that do not recognize Ralzakark and they act as agents of discipline for the chaotic armies that Ralzakark sends against the outside world. Asked why he employed the warriors of Storm Bull men, Ralzakark replied "They defeated my Humakti and *I* deserve the best."

This was apparently a thinko for Arkat's Hold which is in North Esrolia.

My crazy theory (based on a line in Lords of Terror): Ralzakark's warlord and enforcer is one Oddi the Keen ("He killed me so I brought him back to life. It's only fair")

I think that most people within the Monster Empire blame its awfulness on Argrath and Sheng Seleris. Admitting their own leaders might be responsible isn't going to make things any better so there's next to no incentive for any soul-searching.

"I'm looking for a ball. On the day he was doomed to die, Sheng killed Argrath and made his head into a ball for his followers to play with. I would very much like to have that ball." "To bring Argrath back to life?" "What? No! I want to get in a few kicks in one of those people who destroyed this place before Chaos takes me."

I do think the Sartarites could distinguish trolls from chaos. It's something the Malkioni would be more likely to do.

A couple more hells (the basic scheme was outlined an article Greg wrote in Tales #8 in which Chaos had six forms - the first four mentioned in Cults of Terror p20 and the last two being Evil and Seduction). Refuseland: A colder darker version of the Void in the _Loki_ show. The things that where broken and lost in the above hells end up here. Much of it is unusable but a hardy few scour the ruins to find freshly fallen refuse. Maggotland: A land of ash and sand. The main form of life is huge maggots (the type that appeared in Snakepipe Hollow) behaving live the sandworms in Dune. Rounding of this chaotic caricature are various chaotic species acting like hardy Fremen.