metcalph

Nobody knows. Foreign women who become accepted aren't otherwise noted as inferior. Probably not Elmal as he left his old people behind for the Lightbringers. Shargash would be honored at Sun Dome Temples in Peloria, mainly in a propitiatory role rather than as a source of Rune Magic. He's to distant to be known in Sun County, I'd think. Maybe Hector has heard of him but that's about it.

Araslithos would have been born on Towjang. The Guide states they have always lived there but Trowjang as a country becomes significant only after the Closing (It's first labelled circa 1450 ST, not even appearing in the 1220 ST map). It's noteworthy that the Island was part of the Middle Sea Empire but nobody in our sources (Middle Sea Empire) has a word to say about them. My guess is that the Amazons took a turn for the worse after the Goddess Switch and when the Closing struck, started killing the Men. Araslithos would have been born in the period between 1220-1450 ST and contributed a kind of civilizing influence upon the Amazons. That way the Amazonian population grew and they became significant enough for the mapmakers to take note off. Slavery has been mentioned. A nicer solution is that in their raids, they take the newborn males with them and exchange them for unwanted females. The Amazonians are chaste with Tolat. The literature is silent on what happens with non-worshipping women but they can be tolerated. They don't need to study elsewhere. They can sit at home, read the inscriptions on the ancient temple ruins and make sense of them through their divine parentage. The oldest reference to them in the Genertela Boxed set had them as a mixture of the cults of Uleria and Humakt. Which means it was a Humakti war cult with an APPx5 test to become an initiate and an APPx1 test to become a Rune Lord with a couple of Ulerian runespells thrown in. The Cult of Shargash in the Cults Book to Come from what few tidbits have been made does not follow this. The Glorantha Sourcebook mentions a Goddess called Teshana who abandoned her husband (Somash the Sun God) and took up with Tolat. So I think the Amazons might be an earth fighting cult (a fusion between Babeester God and High King Elf) with Tolat being an associate cult.

I've only seen an announcement for the Starter Set and Weapons and Equipment came out shortly after that as a PDF with the printing still to come. That said, I note chaosium's silence during a discussion about the the new policy pf combined releases which could be read either way (Yes, it's true or No, the discussion is too silly to merit comment).

I don't see what the problem is. The Orlanthi, Kralori and Pelorians do not have a one stop "worship everything" shop so why should the Malkioni? What's being described is worship of the Invisible God who is separate from the others. Because the Gods are not under Zzaburi control (unless you are in Carmania). The Loskalmi don't trust the Zzaburi and their rulers would think the Gods are beneath them. In Seshnela, the Nobles would control the worship of the Gods by the others. In Ralios, the Arkati can barely agree on who Arkat was so any agreement on how to worship the Invisible God is non-existent. They are one people in that they practice Rightness and support the Wizards. Beyond that, they are bitterly split.

Deoends on who you talk to. Lodril says yes. Yelm and Dayzatar say no. Two against one? Lodril touched down in many places. Everybody says their local volcano was the first. A much better question to ask them would be why the Vent is so much bigger than their own volcano if Lodril first came down there? Lodril spend much time on, in and under Earth. He likes all positions unlike Yelm and Dayzatar.

The Gods have their separate worship ceremonies which are pretty much like the pagans. I understood the question to refer to the Invisible God.

Among the Seshnegi, I think it's largely the tithing of magic points to the wizards. In return the wizards enliven the proceedings with: Warnings of supernatural events to come Lectures on how to maintain rightness, with detailed reference to numerous failings observed by the Wizards Contrived summonings of fearsome spirits who are then driven away by the spells of the Wizards. Warnings against heretics that seek to overthrow the social order as maintained by the wizards (ie Men of All and Arkati) Ostentatious blessings cast on the community for the coming week, such as Good Weather Thanks and praise is offered to the Ancestors who have gone before. Among the Loskalmi, worship ceremonies are mainly attended by the Men-of-All, Guardians and prospects. There it's not so much as the collection of magic points but rather contact with the Hidden Mover. The ceremony is a lengthy ritual to obtain Joy. First comes the medispections/self-criticisms in which various attendants confess error that prevents them from joy. A swift correction* and the real ceremony begins. Most achieve spiritual satisfaction but sometimes one is seized to utter oracular portents. *If the error is serious then one probably does their correction in private before turning up to the public ceremony to avoid subsequent shame.

Polestar is the Ruling God of Vormain (Me too).

That's an interesting point. To having mastered the arts of sorcery would have meant that he would have abandoned any worship of Humakt. But before then he was a Brithini. So to have been a full Man-of-All would mean that demonstrate his martial prowess before being inducted into the arts of sorcery. But we know he had some trouble with the Brithini authorities before he became a Seshnegi and one of the stated reasons could have been the worship of his father through his sword. Extrapolating this to the Loskalmi, I think that the Guardians (soldier) can and do worship War Gods. But they are encouraged not to become too devoted (and if they do, further promotion is blocked). Hence I would expect to see humakti initiates but not rune lords.

At what point do you consider Arkat to have been fully illuminated?

I disagree. Even Malkion grew old before his untimely death. What I think Rightness is about is strengthening the immortal self - the logical part of you The Brithini and Vadeli believe it is lost after death and the other Malkioni disagree. Which requires that Rightness be the cause of Brithini and Vadeli immortality which I don't think is correct. The word from Greg was the Vadeli are gloranthan Cainists - a gnostic sect who believed that everything taught in the Old Testament was the work of the wicked demiurge and thus wrong. To achieve salvation, one must therefore break those teachings. The Guide supports this with a picture of a Brown Vadeli haveing long fingernails to avoid material work. So I think they are more sophisticated than just good psychopaths.

They have Wrongness IMO. Elaborating on this further, Rightness appears to me to be a God Learner elucidation that made acting according to one's caste much easier, so much so that even their bitterest enemies use them. Like Arabic Numerals does for math. Prior to this everybody used their weird systems with strengths and weaknesses but no underlying unity. Malkioni who lived before the God Learners (Brithini and Vadeli) who act according to their archaic codes but their kindred born after that time use the God Learner scheme.

No. The Hrestoli avoids loss of Rightness because he is acting Rightfully according to his other caste (the one which Hrestol established). The Wizards on the other hand have never liked this and seek to disinguish the Rightness of the Hrestoli from the Rightness of others. Their research is still ongoing.

For Daga, I think he would most likely be worshipped in Fonrit (in order to dry out the Elf Woods). He might be another name for Sikkanos.

I think she would be worshipped by the Zabdamar of the Sea of Fog.

Or perhaps the Arkati practice their caste in secret and do not rely on the traditional western castes. Instead every form of Arkat forms its own caste (Liberator, Savior, Chaosbane, Devil, Great, Peacemaker and Destroyer) with its own exotic caste magic. There is an alternative caste of sorceror noble which is found in the Castle Coast and the Eastern Isles. Other societies touched by the God Learners or the Malkioni in distant past (Vormain, Fonrit, Fronelan Orlanthi) might have their own versions of the traditional western castes. One can worship Gods and keep Caste with good caste magic as the Seshnegi amply demonstrate. I have a feeling that Caste Magic is much more limited than spirit or rune magic for every day needs (heal wound, bladesharp) and so only the Brithini and the Vadeli learn Caste Magic for those ends. What the non-magician castes would use Caste Magic for IMO are exotic sorcery effects that cannot be easily duplictaed by other magics. For example, a warrior might know some caste magic that allows him to: resist any non-sorcery magic by at least 2 pts. add 2 points damage (up to the maximum critical weapon damage) to any chosen weapon of Malkioni design. adding 2 hitpoints to his general HP for determining how much time he has left before he bleeds out etc. (I'm just spitballing here) Caste is something that exists in Glorantha. They are not social constructs but logical solutions to the ideal society made real in the World of Forms. A society can't one day decide that the nobles be allowed to do one thing and the soldiers another without consequences, To change the definitions requires an heroic incursion into the World of Forms to create a new solution.

ANother point to bear in mind - if being illuminated can prevent a decrease in Rightness then could one use Illumination to increase Rightness?

I doubt it's a question of becoming illuminated and being able to break all the rules. It's more of a process of spiritual reflection and experimentation. A Zzaburi who on becxoming illuminated decides to sacrifice to the Gods is still going to face loss of rightness. The Arkati are illuminated sorcerers, yet there are rules that even they follow.

Piety or lack thereof of Malkioni countries (My opinion). The Malkioni as a whole are quite pious. Those that aren't sorcerers, that is. Among the nobility however, there is a cynical custom of calling in the Wizards to get out of a tough spot with respect to their gods (ie having sworn an oath of which they now repent). Loskalm, I've avoided discussing before now because it's complicated. The Man-of-All attitude towards the Hidden Mover could be considered pious. But I don't think the Men-of-All for the most part are sorcerers. Their magical power comes from a variety of sources such as practical god learning, possibly caste magic etc and is more geared to the heroic path rather than the studious path of a wizard. The few Men-of-All who are trusted enough to be wizards treat sorcery as a tool to benefit their fellow Men-of-All. I think most of the wizards in Loskalm (although they are Idealists) don't actually follow the Men-of-All path and start their sorcery from a very early age. It's that the top ranks of their orders are reserved to the Men-of-All who direct the order's resources into supporting their fellow Men-of-All (and if the real Wizards complain about this, they quickly find out that the consequences can be unpleasant). As for the God Learners, they were motivated by several factors. The first few centuries were a period of exploring the new horizons caused by their discoveries (such as the Abiding Book, the defeat of the Waertagi, the free seas etc). The restoration of Rightness to Seshnela and the destruction of the Dark Empire has been described as a crusade in the past and there still is a religious dimension of the war. The warriors and magicians in the war were sincere but to describe them as pious in doing so is I think a step too far as there's nothing in their religion that mandates a war

I had the idea that the High Temple was for savage Lodril and the Low Temple was for the civilized Twins. There is or was a temple to Lodril in Nochet. The main son of Lodril in Dragon Pass is Quivin but he was defeated by Maran Gor a long time ag. In Prax, Lodril makes his influence felt through the Oakfed cult (psychotic pyromomanics). Initially it was rock caves but I think the architecture would now be a mixture of Jrusteli and Holy Country buildings carved out of lava specially summoned for the purpose. Pamaltela IIRC.

You are using a non-religious definition of revelation in order to justify the religious usage of piety to describe the Malkioni. If I have been made aware of the four colour proof or the mass of the Higgs boson, it does not follow that my acquisition of such knowledge is a religious experience. The sorcerers of the Malkioni do not believe in the Invisible God in order to do magic, they *know*. There are valid philosophical arguments about the theory of knowledge (to wit "if the Wizards all start from the same facts and logical principles, why do they end up splintered into numerous schools of thought that hate each other?"). That is why I believe the use of the word piety to describe the Sorcerer's attitude towards his magic is a poor one.

Except that Malkion is not a prophet of a god (yes, I know he has been described as one in the past) but a philosopher presenting logical proofs. So revelations is not quite the appropriate word to use here.

The Lighthouse is a mountain south of the Low Temple. It can be seen on the map in the Guide p252 which also has the following information:

Why not say that then?

I'm not seeing the confusion. There's a big distinction between bound spirits and animal spirits (sacrifice for rune magic etc) and the bound spirit familiars in RQ2 have spells which can be cast as the owner desires (listed in the spells section as "known by <familiar's name>"