M Helsdon

It's a shame the finished version of this Seshnelan piece didn't get into the Guide:

True - my list covers only the Provincial Army. It does. From Jeff's listing, Imther contributes nothing to the Provincial Army. I've probably made a mistake in just considering formal regiments. My assessment of the Pelorian 'Barbarian Belt': Region Military Tradition Aggar Orlanthi, Templars, Hsunchen Anadiki Orlanthi Balazar Skirmishers Bilini Orlanthi Brolia Orlanthi skirmishers, Hsunchen Charg Orlanthi Holay Orlanthi, Templars, Pelorian Imther Orlanthi, Templars Jarst Skirmishers, Templars Skanthi Orlanthi Talastar Orlanthi – Dara Happan arms & armor Tarsh Orlanthi, Pelorian, Templars Vanch Orlanthi, Skirmishers, Templars Hsunchen: See Hsunchen Warfare. Orlanthi: See Orlanthi Warfare. Pelorian: Regiments of cavalry and infantry. Skirmishers: Light infantry. Templars: Sun Dome Temple soldiers. Bold: denotes Provincial kingdoms of the Lunar Empire.

Vanch provides the Foot Bison and (derived from one of your articles I believe) I've added the unfortunate New Lolon Foot, plus some Templars. The first two are both light infantry; the Foot Bison are equipped with spear, javelin, and broadsword, whilst the New Lolon Foot carry spear, javelin, kopis, and round shield. I was attempting to avoid listing too many as Hittite... but your comment is taken onboard. For Imther, no regiments are listed in the Army List, so I didn't include them, because I know nothing of their armament and armor other than there's a Sun Dome there. (Hmm, need to add that to my Army List...) Jeff's Army List: http://www.glorantha.com/lunar-army-list/ True. I've just uploaded the latest version of the document to dropbox - it includes this list plus many more additions, especially about cataphracti and chariots; the Army List has also been color coded, which makes the cultic associations of many regiments immediately apparent...

The only modern canonical Suvarian regiment is the Graineaters, who carry crescent-shaped wicker shields, wear square bronze pectoral plates and carry six javelins in a quiver and one in-hand. To my mind, this made them similar to Achaemenid infantry. The crescent-shaped shields are an issue, but was used by later Achaemenid takabara peltasts, who probably adopted its use from the Greeks (but seem to have used axes, not javelins)... Unfortunately, peltast was one of those terms the meaning of which drifted over time, so Seleucid peltasts probably wouldn't be suitable. To my mind, Scythians and Sarmatians are a closer fit. The mounts are the issue. Other than the Foot Bison regiment of the Lunar Army, Animal Nomads need their mounts, and I suspect the Foot Bison look more Pelorian than Praxian. My list is only for Central Genertela, as that's the region I write about. Adding the West (or East) would inflate a project that has already grown too large...

Below are my thoughts for war games figures to represent various Central Genertelan cultures. It is far from definitive, and posted here for discussion... Figures for Gloranthan Armies The following terrestrial cultures are suggested as sources for Gloranthan army figures. Note that figures armored in chainmail should be avoided as chainmail is rare. Group Terrestrial Equivalents Black Horse Troop Ridderan No equivalent Grazelanders/Pentans Grazelander /Pentan Scythian, Sarmatian Holy Country Caladraland Mycenaean Esrolians Minoan, Mycenaean Esvularings /God Forgot Sassanian, Byzantine Heortland Mycenaean, Bronze Age North Europeans, Thracian Islanders Minoan Hsunchen Basmoli Amerindian, Libyan Telmori Amerindian, Libyan Lunar Empire Aggar Thracian Carmanian Sassanian, Byzantine, Kushan Char-un Sarmatian Dara Happans Classical Greek, Assyrian Darjiini Assyrian Doblian Thracian Eolian Bronze Age Northern European Holay Gauls, Early Roman Imther Romano-British Pelandan Assyrian, Classical Greek Lunar Early Roman, Classical Greek, Sassanian Suvarian Achaemenid Persian Tarsh Saxon, Viking, Sassanian Vanch Romano-British Orlanthi Dark Orlanthi Hittite, Thracian Earth Tarsh Bronze Age North European, Hittite Humaki Battalion Early Roman, Gauls, Saxon Light Orlanthi Mycenaean, Hittite, Bronze Age North European, Thracian, Saxon, Viking Old Hendriki Sword Orlanthi Uroxi Warband Bronze Age North European, Viking Yelmalion Mycenaean, Hittite, Thracian Praxians Agimori Nubian, Zulu Bison No equivalent Bolo-Lizard No equivalent High Llama No equivalent Impala No equivalent Ostrich No equivalent Pol-Joni Scythian, Sarmatian Rhino No equivalent Sable No equivalent Unicorn Scythian Zebra Scythian, Sarmatian Sun Dome Temples Militia Classical Greek Templar Macedonian

It might be worth considering the use of weapons by different Gloranthan cultures, where some aren't connected with the Runes of the relevant religion... 'Favored Weapon' does not indicate these are the only weapons used by that group, just the most likely. So many groups use spears or swords, even if their religion isn't a Sky or Air cult (though of course there may be a mythological rationale that the god stole it from another). There's some Runic correspondence, but it is far from absolute. Favored Weapons Group Primary Secondary Tertiary Black Horse Troop Ridderan Kontos Sword Dagger Grazelanders Golden Bow Composite Bow Kontos Broadsword Grazelander Kontos Composite Bow Broadsword Hsunchen Basmoli Bow Spear Dagger Telmori Javelin Spear Short Sword Orlanthi Dark Orlanthi Club or Mace Sling Javelin Earth Tarsh Spear Axe Bow Light Orlanthi Bow Sword Spear Old Hendriki Spear Sword Javelin or Sling Sword Orlanthi Spear Sword Javelin Tarshite Spear Short Sword Bow Yelmalion Bow Long Spear Javelin Praxians Bison Lance Sword Javelin Bolo-Lizard Bolas Spear Dagger High Llama Lance Javelin Broadsword Impala Composite bow Darts Short sword Ostrich Boomerang Javelin/ Spear Short sword Pol-Joni Lance Sword Bow Rhino Lance Axe Mace Sable Any Any Any Unicorn Composite bow Sword Lance Zebra Composite bow Lance Sword Sun Dome Temple Militia Spear Bow Short sword Templar Sarissa Bow Short sword

Almost all the maces illustrated are based on real ones, including this one... I admit I looked at it, and thought: hmm, this looks Lodrilli...

Maces are highly effective against a foe lacking a helmet (especially a cavalryman bashing a non-mounted adversary on the head), or a foe wearing heavy armor. Whilst weapons in Glorantha have Elemental associations, I doubt this limits their use (cf Shargashi and maces when Shargash's Runes are Disorder, Sky/Fire, Death and his own Rune). And of course, an individual can have Runes that aren't common in their culture. The reason for the inclusion, out-of-world, is that maces were popular with cataphracti.

It seemed unreasonable to start a new topic for armor, axes and maces.... 8-)

Maces...

The only reason I mention it is that in reviewing volume 1, there were issues with the rune font used in places, meaning that some runes 'shifted'.

Might be worth noting on the errors page.

You don't mention the date in your campaign, and for Heruvernalda, on Kordros Island this could be significant, as it is the major center of the Fazzurites. In 1625 King Pharandros attempted to assassinate all of Fazzur Wideread's supporters, so that when the general returned home, civil war started to simmer in Tarsh. By 1627 Fazzur ruled much of Kordros without regard for decrees coming from Furthest, until he was assassinated in 1628 (though one source says 1629), a casualty of the continuing covert civil war. As the catalyst leading to wider warfare, it was a major miscalculation on the part of the Phargentites. Onjur, Fazzur’s eldest son, led the rebellion against the tyrannical king, who was already hard-pressed by the resurgent Sartarites. When the policies of the Phargentites failed, the people turned to Onjur for leadership. He forged an alliance with King Argrath, and when Sartar attacked Tarsh led the uprising that captured the king. So approaching Heruvernalda fits in with the larger meta-plot, if you want to take it that way, foreshadowing the rapprochement of Tarsh (or at least one side in the looming civil war) and Sartar.

Five smaller cities, including Giant Bones, and Stones over Souls forming a Dragonewt Rune, according to the Argan Argar Atlas, page 29. If there are three more, they are too small to appear on the map.

The inhabitants of Halkomelem, severely Tapped by their overlords in the past, dress in extremely garish blue clothes, despite being dronari.

Find a noble house advertising for Dart Competition mercenaries, and try to be recruited to act as bodyguards for a noble travelling in the desired direction... There may of course be assassination attempts, and all sorts of other interesting events, but Pelorians are used to seeing all sorts of weird outlanders serving as mercenaries.

Again, it's a matter of perspective. For something I've been working on, I've taken the picture maps in Pavis: GtA, Sartar: KoH and the Sartar Companion as 'accurate' and attempted to redraw the city gates, influenced by Mycenaean and Anatolian architecture, and by Iron Age brochs and other round towers (because whilst aspects of Glorantha are broadly analogues of terrestrial cultures, they aren't duplications). So the top image of the square towers found in some Sartarite cities (obviously based on an Esrolian template) is heavily influenced by Near East architecture, but the lower image is not so much. Round towers are found in Pavis and Jonstown. The dual gate and postern doesn't reflect any terrestrial defensive architecture I am aware of, but it doesn't have to. (I am in two minds about the form of the crenulations - but they are a work in progress). The stonework is decidedly cyclopean, but that's down to dwarves and magic...

It's on topic. Basically, I assume art in the Guide, HeroQuest: Glorantha, The Coming Storm to be canonical, plus Pavis: GtA, and older sources, such as River of Cradles, Sun County, Dorastor. Even when contradictory: some art is more canonical than other art: it's all down to your point of view. However, I also assume that the art depicts the interpretation of the artists, much as the art on Etruscan mirrors, Greek vases, Assyrian reliefs, Hittite statues etc. are canonical for the period they were made in, as they would have had to convince the contemporary audience. A great deal of information can be derived from these sources - but they can also be misleading - but, whether they are accurate portrayals, they convey information about the period. They may or may not show weapons, armor and their military usages accurately, but even if wrong, they tell us what the artist and their audience thought was right, even if it was inaccurate! Without visiting the period there is often no better source (Jeff obviously visits Glorantha and brings back sketches). Similarly, when drawing a sword or an axe (or a mace - work in progress) I attempt the pretense that the item has been shown to me by a Gloranthan authority, though what they know may be in error: a particular piece may be ceremonial, for display, was a parade ground piece, or may have an origin different from what they say. Much the same may be said of many pieces in a museum! Often the labels say what experts believe to be true, but even for the well documented periods our sources are often fragmentary.

By 1626 Queen Gagix Two-barb and her Chaos demons were ravaging central Heortland and captured the fortified city of Backford.

???? I don't understand your comment. My illustration is not definitive, given the wide variety of axe designs. It does, however, attempt to show those featured in canonical illustrations, including a ceremonial and a war-ready labyrs as their cultic importance is well documented. Whilst many aspects of Glorantha are near-analogues to Bronze/Iron Age Earth, there are differences. So Jan's bull-headed sagaris and Babeester Gor double-headed axes will be present in-world. In terrestrial history, the labyrs was commonly associated with female divinities, and for some in Glorantha it has more than symbolic importance.

It's derived from Jan's artwork, below. I believe similar sagaris are historical. There's a long history of double-headed axes being used, in warfare and forestry. They are mentioned in the Icelandic sagas and there are numerous examples in various collections. In Glorantha, they are the favored weapons of Babeester Gor axe women. There are two socketed axes in the picture if you mean a Celt, a wedge-shaped axe head with no shaft hole.

An attempt to categorize axes in the Guide and other canonical sources:

As noted, at the very least, the Zendamalthan School. There are also references in the Guide to ballistas, and a ballista uses torsion springs of twisted sinew or hair. I suspect you are confusing ballistas with flexion devices such as the gastraphetes or oxybeles. Fazzur's campaign seems to have lacked a siege train.

The ancient Greeks and Romans used torsion siege engines - the oldest known dates to the 4th century BC. Alexander used a number in the siege of Tyre. It is likely that tension and torsion siege engines are used by humans in 3rd Age Glorantha, certainly by the Zendamalthan School.

From the 4th Age pieces in King of Sartar, some magical abilities remain, such as what seems to be a truth detection spell, but the magical capabilities of the 3rd Age are going, because the cosmos is changing. Eventually all the magic will be gone, but perhaps in the 5th Age, humans will be using coal, and later oil and gas. And perhaps Elmal 11 will land men on the moon.