Shiningbrow

Sorry, but that's an "or", not an "and" in the book... WoD* clarifies very clearly that you can add to it later. And those are just Inscriptions, which may require all the POW to come from the sorcerer who uses is (they're supposed to be uniquely useable by them, and them alone). If we start talking about enchantments, then you should be able to take the POW from others.. and that can build up some powerful spells... (obviously, becoming relics). I have no idea where you got that. 'Immoral' certainly doesn't equal 'Chaos' - Otherwise the Wolf Pirates would be even scarier. (*I usually read this as World of Darkness... 😁)

Yes. I have never thought there would be a simple one shoe fits all. But, there should definitely be some characteristics (eg, skills) that are common across all (obviously, a couple of spells, knowing a Technique or two, a Rune or two...). Every sorcerer will need Read/Write (as mentioned above). The "any thoughts" is an indicator for people to share their ideas...

Yes, much harder and longer to advance. And for that matter, to have at a fairly high skill for a starting character. However, there are multiple ways to augment those casting chances, which you don't get with any other magic form. While Duration may be a huge advantage over other systems, you don't get that much use out of it. Just to equal a 5pt Extension takes 12 Intensity. For most sorcerers, that means the strength of the spell is going to be pretty weak (8 pts... unless you've got a decently high INT over species Max.. unless you're 'cheating'). Ummm... what? It's only +2 for the highest rated Rune. But, getting to 32 INT (or higher) is easy!!! (expensive, but easy). You can increase Intensity via Inscribing with extra POW... That's possibly how some of those you mention did it. Also, crystals. And enchantments (as evidenced by one NPC in a scenario). That last might be the "sneaky rort magics", but the others are already RAW. As for Enhance INT, I'd be ok with throwing in a Man Rune to lower that Intensity:INT ratio (actually, Intensity: whatever stat your boosting).

I tolerate the idea, because it's coming from an academic institution. In some countries (and universities), you have to submit a thesis in your final year of your Bachelor's degree. Most countries and universities don't require this. So, it's simply arbitrary. So, having you create your familiar is sort of appropriate for them. While other traditions don't do that. Lhankor Mhy doesn't care how good (or bad, or non-existent) your sorcery is... Priesthood isn't based on it. Although, it wouldn't surprise me if the Black Robes in Nochet have come up with something equally as arbitrary. (PS - I normally hate arbitrariness... it's so open to abuse and complete irrelevancy... sort of like the need to have your own familiar!)

Not mentioning the spirit bound into the staff was actually rather significant... so, his " Issaries iron bound ironwood staff his familiar... with a spirit bound into it". Makes a HUUUGGGEEEE difference to understanding. Now then, for RQG, we'll have the question of whether a familiar will be capable of storing sorcery spells, as they don't actually know any Runes or Techniques... Binding spirits for their MPs is a no-brainer! @JRE My question wasn't about why have a familiar. It was why use an inanimate object like a staff. I just see it as a huge waste of characteristics (in a version where each point of STR, DEX, etc would cost the sorcerer those... esp the INT and POW).

Mongoose has almost entire books dedicated to the subject, and it was mentioned (with mechanics etc) in almost every other book they published.

I'd always presume the latter, unless they're presented with an overwhelming reason not to.

Well, daddy shouldn't have died then, should he?? And, let's face it, all that came about because he was too arrogant. At least the pillowtalk wouldn't be only about himself with AA.

What's the point/intention here? We can already store spells in objects, as well as MPs (non-regenerating), and a spirit (both spirit magic spells, and regenerating spells). So this idea confuses me, as it seems quite impractical.

That wasn't the point of my question. The point was, being animal gods, does it make sense for them to have (provide themselves) a spell for a human weapon?

In my book, Yinkin doesn't have Sing, and it's not in the WoD corrections. And I agree with those skills being useful.

Reminds me of the Melniboneans.

Ummm, no, we don't agree as much as you think. The cults actually have those skills as cult skills, and one can get training in them. Where we are disagreeing is purely on whether any of those skills should be in the Chargen section for cult skills, and thus adding 15-40%. And that really means - has the cult specifically gone out of its way to teach them to the new Initiate as an important part of being a member of that cult? Given the other skills that are taught (Worship, Cult Lore, Sing, Meditation, etc.), I'm personally not convinced that they are that integral to the nature of the cult itself, such that they have that level of priority, in the same way that Orlanth doesn't focus on any warrior skills. For Odayla, certainly Peaceful Cut is a very important skill to the cult. Singing is obviously related to Worship. Track... debatable. For Yinkin, Beastspeak (for having friendly philosophical discourse with your alynx), and Track - again, debatable. Probably should have mewl rather than sing (which appears to be missing). I do agree that Survival should probably be a part of both, and especially Yinkin, given the requirement to stay in the wilderness alone for a year... that's missing, and can be fairly easily argued.

To PC Chargens in cult skills - yes (although, I'd say that Track is the most important of the hunting skills). But that's been addressed already. I also find it odd that some cultists will have 4 skills to choose from, while Yinkin only has 2. Clearly, adjustments need to be made! RE: Scan and survival... yes, but that's in the Occupation.... What's Orlanth's main role, such that their available cult skill bonuses are only for Orate, Speak Other Language (Stormspeech) and Sing? Seems to be a lousy warrior cult! Ernalda only gets Dance, Animal Lore or Plant Lore, Sing, and Speak Other Language (Earthtongue).. what's her role supposed to be? Her cultists do sod all! (yes, I'm taking the pun there). So, what I'm saying is - cult skills aren't the only important thing to consider. Yes, your PC is. So, should all cults only be written with the PCs in mind? I would suggest not. I am sensing an element of elitism though. If your PC can't hit 80-90% in their main skills (plural), then they aren't worth playing. Yes, you could. And that's an option. I still don't think it makes it a *better* hunting cult. To make it a *better* hunting cult, you'd need to do the exact same thing we're suggesting you do to Odayla and Yinkin - make your own adjustments. OMGs, I only just realised/noticed.... why do neither of them have Animal Lore? Literally, probably the very first skill any hunter would have to learn! "Animal Lore represents knowledge of wild fauna".

I think you are overlooking the great benefit of not having to skin and cook your prey after you've just fried it! That's the Gloranthan version of fast-food. (and, with the Umbroli, you can get home delivery!)

Ok @Rodney Dangerduck, I'll take on this seriously. Sure, they could all be handy. However, they don't make them better than either Yinkin or Odayla. Firstly, given that Orlanth offers no hunting skills whatsoever, how is this "hunter" going to even find the right place to even be able to find the game to catch them? Sure, you could Flight around a lot... but that might need a good bit of Extending... (too bad your Scan is likely to suck). Darkwalk is great - at night and maybe under heavy foliage. But, seriously, as Jeff said above - you'd blow a Rune Point on that? As said above, you need to be fairly close to your prey for that to be useful - and we haven't established that you can find them. The other 2/3/4 spells you've mentioned all have the same issue... Once you've found your quarry, then you can use them. You may as well add Teleportation to the list, or Thunderbolt. And, of course, what does the new Initiate, with only 1RP do? Sure, you could use that 1RP for any of your above, but then, what do you do for the rest of the season? Go back to the town/city to participate in some associate cult's Seasonal or High Holy Day? Apparently Orlanth will have a Minor Holy Day each week, but that's a lot of trudging about for an Initiate to do. Basing a "good" hunter cult on only the Rune spells available is unwise, and it certainly doesn't make it "better". So, do you have anything else to justify the claim?

As I mentioned previously, I don't like the idea of a 'Gloranthan' movie, as most of the time, as in reality is Glorantha mirroring earth that we're seeing (eagerly awaiting a real Gloranthan movie, with ducks, trolls, and tree-like "elves"). However... I've just started on an Italian series (8 episodes) called Romulus. it's set in the 8th century BCE, so fairly fully into the Iron Age. Overt belief in gods, but not much actual magic (however, it's probably a good representation of reality).There are, of course, some anachronisms (including in the title 😛), but so far (2nd episode), it's not bad, and would seem familiar to many of us! (however... far too many red tunics for my liking!)

Depends on the rules for creating them... 😁🤪 Is your new (or old) familiar creation always obedient and respectful? Can conditions be placed on the creature during the creation? (eg, for 1 POW, the condition that the creature take no action to the detriment of the master - or not do an action such that the omission would lead to harming them)

I think I wrote this somewhat earlier in this thread, but since it's been resurrected... I take the Theyalan word for western "sorcery" to be something with the meaning of "meldek heretic magic", whereas LM's 'sorcery' is actually a word meaning "Lhankor Knowing good God magic". I would presume this meaning of words will occur a few times across languages and cultures, even to the point that the Malkioni word for it will have the LM version of sorcery including ideas of corruption. That is, the word(s) we use as 'sorcery' (in English) has many different forms and meanings, depending on the culture and language (and probably even time).

I presume, then, that a LM sorcerer (or, for that matter, any other appropriate cultist) can't have both in your Glorantha.

I'm actually confused. How, exactly, does joining Orlanth make you a better hunter than either Odayla or Yinkin? Orlanth has neither the cult skills or spells for hunting (unless you really like doing it the redneck way, and just Lightning or Thunderbolting your prey...). Do you want to hack your prey to death with a broadsword? Both of these "hunter" cults have the skills... although, I acknowledge (and would change - see my previous post) that there should be some adjustments to the starting cult skills. But as I also wrote above, Orlanth (for example) has many other roles, and yet the Chargen cult skills don't reflect those. Same with Ernalda... Why doesn't Yelmalio have 1H Pike & Shield in their cult skill selection - it's something he's famous for (well.... not, but it's actually a similar argument to yours). Odayla - Cult Skills: Climb, Hide, Missile Weapon, Move Quietly, Peaceful Cut, Scan, Survival, Track. Spirit Magic: Detect Life, Disruption, Mobility, Protection, Slow, Speedart, Strength. Special Rune Magic: Bear’s Skin, Bear’s Strength, Claws... and Transform Self. (I've removed the less huntery spells and skills) Yinkin - Cult Skills: Climb, Hide, Move Quietly, Scan, Speak (Beastspeech), Survival, Track. Spirit Magic: Coordination, Detect Life, Disruption, Mobility, Silence, Slow. Special Rune Magic: Catseye, Charisma, Claws, Identify Scent.. and Transform Self. (again, I've removed the less huntery spells and skills) So, what of the above is not a demonstration of being a hunter? And what do you want to add to the above to make it more huntery? I don't see it.... In fact, I see it as much more closer than many of the others (and therein is the problem - it's closer to the god, and not how players use the cults. Sure, there needs to be more details - but I can say that for literally all the cults as written in the RQG. Hence, a gods book is coming out with long-form write-ups. I just want you to answer 1 question - do you think either of those cults should have Sureshot? (BTW, technicality... "So where are the perception bonuses? 15% or 20% to Track is it." - remember that you can add a further 15-20% on top of that, as per p73)

All cultists try to be more and more like their gods if they want to go further and further, deeper and deeper into the mysteries of that cult (ie, Initiate and further up to Rune mastery). They do the same sorts of things that their gods did. Most people don't. Certainly, even though they believe in those gods, they don't actively worship them. Specifically here, for both Odayla the bear, and Yinkin the cat: "it has been important to be able to... fight (both have done), shoot (not a missile user, but as previously discussed), run away (both have done), heal (certainly mentioned somewhere, no doubt), to know obscure facts (both have done), to deal with spirits (pretty sure both have done), to fight trolls (I don't recall specific mentions), to fight chaos (I don't recall specifically for Odayla, but Yinkin has). So, since you've done those, you've actually emulated those 2 gods... Some cultists will certainly do the transforming as well to get fully into it. But, like any other god, you don't need to go the whole hog (or bear.. or cat...) to be a good, up-standing member of the cult. (I would suggest though, that anyone who is heading for Priest for either of these does have the spells to become a cat/bear at least once a year.) The question then comes down to - how much of the god's actions need to be represented within the cult description? And, I think, it largely seems to be in the Cult section of Chargen that people are complaining, as well as appropriate Rune spells - but you can make those yourself. As for the Chargen... Orlanth was a hunter, where's his hunter skills? Argan Argar is the premier troll god of trade - where's the Bargain??? Where's Tradetalk? Where's Evaluate? Ernalda is the Queen... where's her queenly skills like Orate* or Intimidate? Intrigue? Insight*? (*in the Chargen) Going back to Rune spells - Orlanth is (in)famous for playing the bagpipes in the Celestial Court... where's his spells for being a bard, piper, harbinger of death and ear-gouging? So, I'm going to suggest a couple of things. a) wait for the GoG book to come out that may rectify such things. And b) if it's not sufficient (or in the meantime), houserule what you think they need in... (I'm currently working with Ian Thomson on the Pavis book... we're introducing new magics and skills all the time... so, go for it!) (perhaps one quick solution for all GMs & Players - in the Chargen skills, allow 1 exchange for any of the other listed cult skills). "If that is the real purpose of the cults, they are a pointless waste of time for PCs." Depends on what you think the purpose of a PC is... and what players want out of the game.

No cult offers up specifically missile weapons in the Cult section of Chargen, although a couple do allow for it as "other" (Humakt). So generally, you're just looking at Occupation skills. I also notice that Yinkin only has 2 cults skills to 'choose' from - whereas (all?) others have at least 3. So, there's an opportunity there to remedy that. However, bears and cats don't tend to use missile weapons, but their claws and teeth. I would definitely suggest Yinkin have a couple of sub-cults to show the different roles he's played in the Storm Tribe's mythology, including the hunter aspect with Orlanth, and thus some missile weapon love. And regardless of sub-cult or not, Move Quietly should definitely be a cult skill in Chargen (cos, he's a cat!) Except - Odayla is a bear, and Yinkin was usually a cat... The problem I'm seeing is that people are thinking that cult and occupation should be very closely related... but they're not always. You're demanding that the god follow the desires of the cultists. And people follow them because they like the solitary nature of the god (and in particular, in the wilderness), not usually because they want to be good hunters. Odayla is a "hunter" because bears hunt... but he's not a bear because he hunts. So, to worship and honour Odayla (and Yinkin), you do what he (they) did - and again, bows aren't it. Sure, if you want to create a Hero cult that has missile weapons, then you can add what you want. (it should also be noted that Yinkin was also a spirit, so should have some spirit cults around somewhere as well)

Where do Demibirds come from? it's when mommy Demi Moore meets up with daddy Birdman, and they love each other very much....

I doubt that's actually true. I'd probably be more inclined to say that many people (especially new to the game and world) don't have much of a grip on it, and thus may be loathe to commit to it without some sort of easy introduction. Granted, HQs take a lot of work (both for the characters, and for the players and GM) - lots of imagination and going outside the bounds of normal RPGs - because it does ramp up the power level a bit (some don't want that too fast), and because any rules are very basic frameworks, rather than full scenarios to run through. But, given a good enough framework to work with, I think it's yet another thing that will set RQ apart from other games, and thus get in more people who are bored with the 3.5 encounters to level up model. That goes without say 😛 And yes, I do understand that as well. I don't know about you, but I'll be dead long before then (40 years). And, given we have players who have hung on since their teens and 20s back in the 70s and 80s, quite possibly many of them won't be around then either. Which takes me back to my original point - the priorities as they appear to be expressed. Putting HQ rules on the backburner yet again is somewhat of a slap in the face to the loyal and dedicated fans. (and before anyone jumps on my throat for that comment, it's purely in relation to the above posts. I am fully aware that these rules are being done and being put into a book (or 2) already, due for release within my lifetime... probably... maybe.... possibly....... even next year. But I'd be pissed to find out that the HQ rules have been de-prioritised for a campaign book).