Is the wiggly way Runes are drawn relevant?

[benwaggoner]

So, going back to when I bought 2nd edition RQ in the early 90's, fonts have been drawn with ragged edges to the strokes. At first I thought it was trying to emulate how Norse runes looked carved onto the horizontal grain of wood (which is why there aren't any horizontal lines in the runes, IIRC). But the little divits or whatever follow the stroke, like perhaps it's supposed to look like a quill pen?

I suspect most of us just use the font or graphics that have been around forever and not really think about it. But someone I know wants a Harmony Rune tattoo, so it's become an important question.

So, in-universe, are the runes normally drawn with ragged edges like that? Or is that just an Oranthi thing or something, or just a creative artifact from 1970's California?

Thus, would a Harmony rune carved by a master stonecarver in Glorantha have nice straight stroke like old Roman stone carved text?

That's my tentative answer for my Glorantha, but I'm curious if anyone has other or deeper takes.

[Richard S.]

I think they were just drawn that way to look kind of old and worn. The way a rune is drawn doesn't really matter in the end, as long as the shape is generally the same. A straight edged Harmony rune is no different than a jagged edge one.

[scott-martin]

1 hour ago, benwaggoner said:

I suspect most of us just use the font or graphics that have been around forever and not really think about it. But someone I know wants a Harmony Rune tattoo, so it's become an important question.

It's a good and extremely important question. For ink just the three straight lines gets confused for "Roman Three" without additional design elements whereas too ragged a line may always look unfinished or cause the artist headaches. The official redbubble treatment is extremely ragged, looks like three twists of rope. That might not be what this person wants to convey.

In game the topology is the important thing. Greg just drew them with a ball point or pencil line like any other symbol. The magically sighted will probably see the edges in a kind of fractal flux as they interact with ambient reality but some runes will follow sharp borders and precise angles. 

I think the effect they were going for is "old and weathered." Sharp lines have softened and there are some incidental losses . . . chipping, flaking, abrasion, whatever.  Archaic. From the wear patterns it's probably originally clean calligraphy. It's an open question whether an ideal Darkness, for example, would be a perfect circle or whether modern copyists would painstakingly build in irregularities to match the ancient exemplars that have come down.

[Ian Absentia]

1 hour ago, scott-martin said:

For ink just the three straight lines gets confused for "Roman Three" without additional design elements...

...or a very simple barcode.

The runes have been written many ways.  When it comes to a tattoo, never hesitate to introduce personal design.  You're waering it for life -- what speaks "Harmony" to you? (Or rather, to your firend?)

!i!

Edited February 24, 2020 by Ian Absentia
Weird capitalisation

[Sir_Godspeed]

I'm gonna concur on the aesthetics argument. It's about them looking weathered and worn, partially to simulate their age and the "living" nature of Glorantha - but also to separate them from simple geometric clipart for the purposes of marketing, I think. 

[Darius West]

The runes are depicted as battered because they contain internal fractals that shift with their presence in the world.

[Scotty]

15 hours ago, benwaggoner said:

I suspect most of us just use the font or graphics that have been around forever and not really think about it. But someone I know wants a Harmony Rune tattoo, so it's become an important question.

As the person who put together the last Rune font, the runes are irregular as they look terrible as monolithic blocks of symetrical black. For the ones I had to redo, I scanned them, autotraced, then smoothed, then edited a bit more to make the rough. Here's the truth rune without fill, showing the line points.

15 hours ago, benwaggoner said:

So, in-universe, are the runes normally drawn with ragged edges like that? Or is that just an Oranthi thing or something, or just a creative artifact from 1970's California?

Thus, would a Harmony rune carved by a master stonecarver in Glorantha have nice straight stroke like old Roman stone carved text?

In world it would entirely be dependant on the surface it was applied to, cut into (type of wood, stone, cloth, skin, wax, clay, etc). The material or tool doing it (stylii, brushes, chisels, knives, etc). The material being used to make the strokes (brush material, stick, etc), the skill and style of the "artist", the pigment composition (animal, mineral, vegtable, magical, etc.)

So just like the real world. Take a look through the various Glorantha publications for various different forms.

For the Khordavan font, these were traced directly from Greg's original notes. Variations (uppercase) were basically Greg's different handwritting.

Gene Day's runes on a High Llama's neck armour in Nomad Gods.

Luise Perrin's Chalana Arroy priestess in Runemasters

Chalana Arroy ritual, Barbarian adventures, note the plinth.

There are loads of examples in HQG, GtG, RQG, etc.

[benwaggoner]

1 hour ago, Scotty said:

As the person who put together the last Rune font, the runes are irregular as they look terrible as monolithic blocks of symetrical black. For the ones I had to redo, I scanned them, autotraced, then smoothed, then edited a bit more to make the rough. Here's the truth rune without fill, showing the line points.

In world it would entirely be dependant on the surface it was applied to, cut into (type of wood, stone, cloth, skin, wax, clay, etc). The material or tool doing it (stylii, brushes, chisels, knives, etc). The material being used to make the strokes (brush material, stick, etc), the skill and style of the "artist", the pigment composition (animal, mineral, vegtable, magical, etc.)

So just like the real world. Take a look through the various Glorantha publications for various different forms.

For the Khordavan font, these were traced directly from Greg's original notes. Variations (uppercase) were basically Greg's different handwriting.

There are loads of examples in HQG, GtG, RQG, etc.

Wow, thank you for an answer more comprehensive than I could have imagined! Glorantha people are really the best people.

[Diana Probst]

18 hours ago, Scotty said:

As the person who put together the last Rune font, the runes are irregular as they look terrible as monolithic blocks of symetrical black. For the ones I had to redo, I scanned them, autotraced, then smoothed, then edited a bit more to make the rough. Here's the truth rune without fill, showing the line points.

Remaking Runes to my own taste so they'd be subtly different, I made them as monolithic blocks and then chipped them because they did indeed look terrible.  +1 for aging and weathering.

[Dragonsnail]

On 2/24/2020 at 5:23 PM, Scotty said:

As the person who put together the last Rune font, the runes are irregular as they look terrible as monolithic blocks of symetrical black. For the ones I had to redo, I scanned them, autotraced, then smoothed, then edited a bit more to make the rough. Here's the truth rune without fill, showing the line points.

Lhankor Mhy's constellation has many more stars than Orlanth's Ring.

[M Helsdon]

One thing to bear in mind is that in Glorantha there isn't any one way to portray the Runes; styles differ even among the Theyalans. These are pre-industrial cultures, and uniformity and stardardization are unlikely to present, save among dwarves... The God Learners probably created a standard 'font', but it is unlikely that many outside the West still use it? 

For that matter, a Movement Rune with three, four or more arms is still a Movement Rune. 

[Sir_Godspeed]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

One thing to bear in mind is that in Glorantha there isn't any one way to portray the Runes; styles differ even among the Theyalans. These are pre-industrial cultures, and uniformity and stardardization are unlikely to present, save among dwarves... The God Learners probably created a standard 'font', but it is unlikely that many outside the West still use it? 

For that matter, a Movement Rune with three, four or more arms is still a Movement Rune. 

YGWV, but I like to think that the shape actual representational glyphs are largely irrelevant, the main issue is the magic embedded into them/connected to them/whatever. In other words, the "Storm Rune" (as in the fundamental building block) isn't literally a spiral, that's just the visual metaphor most people tend to portray it as. 

This is likely to be counter to canon and to most people's vision of Glorantha, but it's my personal vision, at least. 

[GianniVacca]

Do we know who created the Runes as illustrated in the classic RQ2 book? They are much more evocative and beautiful than the ones in the RQ1 book.