Investing in Clan Creating & Feminine Story telling

[Nick Underwood]

20 minutes ago, Leingod said:

It's because the actual blood ties aren't actually that important; it's what anthropologists would call "fictive kinship," they're social ties of family stemming from shared residence, economic ties, and what's called "nurture kinship." They're exogamous because that's the easiest way to keep a family tree from becoming a family tumbleweed after several generations. The "reality" of your blood relation to any given member of the clan doesn't actually matter one whit for the most part. In addition, the clan is considered the basic legal unit of social organization (bloodlines are informal institutions and aren't recognized for legal purposes), and marriage is chiefly considered a way to create and maintain ties between clans, not individuals (the Orlanthi don't stigmatize sex between unmarried people, so you don't need marriage just to have babies), so there sort of just isn't really any legal basis or precedent for marrying within a clan.

Though, yes, a certain level of sex within the clan is pretty much inevitable, and so long as they're sufficiently distant in actual relation it probably isn't treated as an issue.

Awesome explanation Leingod. Agreed that would do away with the need for marriage between bloodlines as social glue. But how then should we interpret things like Agrath's clam to the Royal House of Sartar, or the inheritance of traits (among gods or mortals) that seem to be linked to direct parentage. Are these just happening in another paradigm, so that socially/culturally/legally I'm the daughter of my clan; but my heroic nature comes down in a straight line from my biological ancestors? 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Nick Underwood

[HeartQuintessence]

14 minutes ago, Nick Underwood said:

Awesome explanation Leingod. Agreed that would do away with the need for marriage between bloodlines as social glue. But how then should we interpret things like Agrath's clam to the Royal House of Sartar, or the inheritance of traits (among gods or mortals) that seem to be linked to direct parentage. Are these just happening in another paradigm, so that socially/culturally/legally I'm the daughter of my clan; but my heroic nature comes down in a straight line from my biological ancestors? 

It is possible that in Gloranthat is is simultaneously both?
The Direct parentage of any individuals (genetics), and then the mytho-history being laid on top of that?

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, Nick Underwood said:

And you found a solution to a perennial issue I have with clan exogamy! If everyone marries outside the clan, then bloodlines have no blood ties between them and share no ancestry. What is holding the clan together? Only the unifying force of the Wyter?

One of the solutions I have for that is ritual marriages (e.g. the clan member is marrying the Earth or the Storm, etc.).  I did this for my Harvest Games/Harvest Bride scenario when I transplanted the old MOB scenario from Sun County.  The Earth temple for the clan chooses the Harvest Bride for the year (always an unmarried woman from one of the bloodlines). The Harvest Games are then held with candidates (always unmarried young men) from the other bloodlines who compete to be the Barley King. The Barley King marries the Harvest Queen in a ritual marriage for one year (might last beyond, but likely some rite to do so). It's only one marriage a year done in this manner, but it helps to keep the bloodlines together.

[Leingod]

42 minutes ago, Nick Underwood said:

Awesome explanation Leingod. Agreed that would do away with the need for marriage between bloodlines as social glue. But how then should we interpret things like Agrath's clam to the Royal House of Sartar, or the inheritance of traits (among gods or mortals) that seem to be linked to direct parentage. Are these just happening in another paradigm, so that socially/culturally/legally I'm the daughter of my clan; but my heroic nature comes down in a straight line from my biological ancestors? 

I meant "bloodline" in the sense of "a sub-set of the clan recognizes a shared ancestor and so consider themselves more closely related to each other than to more distant members of the clan," which is basically just adding extra layers to the extended family model of the clan. The individual will have many ancestors and relatives who aren't of their clan, and obviously they will be recognized as kin by them. All clan are kin, but not all kin are clan. Your clan's ancestors are your ancestors, but so are other ancestors who aren't of your clan. Family is complicated, you know?

Orlanthi society in general is kind of predicated on trying to delicately balance between two not-always-but-often opposing forces: the needs of the community and the free will of the individual. This traces back to their very founding, because the Orlanthi as a people are considered to have truly begun when Orlanth married Ernalda, not because Orlanth was now a king, but because Orlanth is too much of an individual (that is, too self-centered) to be the sole culture-maker.

EDIT: Basically, yeah, it's both. Legally and magically, as part of a clan you are related to everyone else in that clan. As an individual, both legally and magically, you have kin outside of that clan as well. This can, and does, get both complicated and hard to reconcile, which is the kind of stuff great sagas are made of.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Leingod

[HeartQuintessence]

Ok,. I like this. and now I've got to figure out how to apply it to the Glimmerstones, who because they're new- (which is apart of this exercise), is something I am struggling with.

I guess I'll type up the short synopsis so I can show people what I am working with because my Glorantha Clan Folder notes are a mess.

Glimmerstone History

 

[Nevermet]

23 hours ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Actually Go for it, I want to see this character. Tell me about them, maybe it'll help me jump start my own ideas. I struggle a bit because whether heroquest or Runequest the assumption is characters are born by 1604 (I think).

 

I slapped together a draft of a character.  I wasn't trying to make a "weird" character in the sense of him not fitting into the clan, but he came out a bit more in that direction than intended.  He's a loyal, proud member of the clan, though there's some tension in the clan.  I'd imagine such a new clan would have some divisions that haven't been completely worked out.  Anyhow, here is Josvil, made with the HQG Prose Method:

 

I am Josvil Koldorson of the Glimmerstone Clan, and Fire calls me.  My father was a shepherd, but after a violent raid from Rival Clan left him crippled, I became an initiate of Elmal and Rigsdal to protect people as a warrior.  I care for the Helering Darala, but their parents do not like Fire.  I feel I must prove myself to the clan.  I wield the Steam Spear, an ancestral weapon given to me by an elder with no children.  I am infamous for being slow-witted in conversation, but I make up for it with my dancing.  I prefer having time to plan over spontaneity.

[Leingod]

Thinking about it a bit more to try to get this across, I would say that the creation of a clan history is essentially an exercise in storytelling both in and out of universe; it is the manufacture of a fictive shared history that binds everyone together in a shared identity as one people. You can see this with the story of the Red Cow clan's founding in the Red Cow Saga; they were a scattered refugee people, and many of the "deeds of their ancestors in God Time" that shape their practices and identity are in fact adopted values/history from their wyter, Many-Breath.

The creation of a clan, then, is usually a practice in crafting what anthropologists call "invented traditions," of creating a shared story and tradition that ties everyone together as one people, that explains what decisions and traditions make them unique and set them apart from others and what values they hold most dearly.

In general, most people only really know their personal ancestry from the last few generations; past that, it's mostly either vague or constrained to a few big names that, in all honestly, probably half the people in a given area could claim as an ancestor (by now, pretty much any Heortling probably had an ancestor who was descended from each and every Vingkotling tribe you could name, for example). This is why only the most recent or the most important of the ancestors are usually recognized by name and deed; the rest are usually just addressed as the unidentifiable collective of "the ancestors" when the rites are observed. No one can actually trace a direct and unbroken line all that far back with any certainty. So if the spirit of our community says that our clan is descended of the Berenethtelli, or the Liornvulli, or whoever, who's to say we aren't?

That said, finding some common ancestry is something a new clan will likely try to do if possible, and given the magic that suffuses Glorantha, it's quite possible to go as far back as you need to. If the Glimmerstone Clan is formed from refugees of Sartarites, Lunars and Grazelanders, for example...

Well, in the Sartar Companion, in the course of getting to the location where you can perform the Lawstaff Quest a Grazer Earth Priestess, Eneera, can be convinced to take you under her protection (followers of "Wingkolad," an enemy god, generally not being welcome deep in Grazer territory) and is curious about your party's ways, because spirits have given her visions that the peoples of Dragon Pass must find common ground and be unified "lest the coming Hero Wars kill us all." As such, throughout this journey Eneera will question the party on what sets the Sartarites apart from the Vendref, and will be fascinated by any in the party who worship Ernalda, as she'll recognize some of the prayers and names (the Grazers know their great Earth goddess as La-ungariant). Finally, once you get started on the Heroquest itself and are in the Gods World, Jarani Whitetop (a great-grandson of Vingkot) will feast the party and swap stories about their deeds and adventures. Most interestingly, when Eneera shows an interest in all this, Jarani recites for her the lineage of the Vingkotlings. He finishes his recitation by saying, "I recognize my grandfather's sister, Redayle, in you." This is, or rather can be interpreted as, divine confirmation of a connection and common ancestor shared between these two groups.

Whatever the actual, literal truth of the matter may be, the truth as it actually matters to the clan and its magic is "Of old our peoples were one but split apart, but now we come together again and recognize each other as kin through our shared ancestors once more." Or something to that effect. The clan builds a constructed history and shared ancestry through the adaptation or even wholesale invention of myth to weave together a cohesive whole... or rather, they "reveal/discover" a lost one. And if they can conclusively prove this through a Heroquest? All the better and more binding.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Leingod

[HeartQuintessence]

So then I suppose I can turn to you all to help me peg down this ideas, I am scratching these out as I go so feel free to feed into them, or comment:

 1625 is also the Dragonrise, which probably would have been relayed to the Clan in some form.
 
 So we're looking at invented traditions, and they're doing that rather wholesale:
 
 The Lioness(Alynx) Wyter- is the White Lioness, her hunting sisters form the bloodlines of the clans alynxes, and the Wyter herself was a hunting companion to Vinga during the Lesser and Greater Darknesses, Ernalda adopted the Lioness making her not a spirit persay, but not quite a godbeast either (?)
 
 But I do agree that ultimately the clan thrives on that idea:Of old our peoples were one but split apart, but now we come together again and recognize each other as kin through our shared ancestors once more."

The idea about the Companion's Lawstaff quest is something I'll have to research.
 
 Their Ancestresses include, each of the big bloodlines anyway
 Lunars: Thaenya Suren Estara
Grazelander: Eneela Ring-Mother
Orlanthi :Irvarnestra The Shepard

So I guesst the question is how does one weave together a mythos that's perhaps been untold for ages, and pull it back into the light.

I find that the clan draws from all of its groups to create something visually unique- like adult women wear their hair a certain way and advertise their williness for lovers or husbands with ornaments (rings woven or braided, so a girl's first set is important.)

I feel like the Lunar Empire needs to contributed polish- but since they're no long in big cities  its a little hard. Suggestions?

 

[Leingod]

49 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

1625 is also the Dragonrise, which probably would have been relayed to the Clan in some form.

They likely saw it in some form, given how important a cosmic event this is and how big the dragon in question was.

53 minutes ago, HeartQuintessence said:

So I guesst the question is how does one weave together a mythos that's perhaps been untold for ages, and pull it back into the light.

I find that the clan draws from all of its groups to create something visually unique- like adult women wear their hair a certain way and advertise their williness for lovers or husbands with ornaments (rings woven or braided, so a girl's first set is important.)

I feel like the Lunar Empire needs to contributed polish- but since they're no long in big cities  its a little hard. Suggestions?

It depends a lot on where the Lunars originated from. If they're from places like Tarsh, Sylila, Holay, etc., then they probably share Orlanthi identity, even if they adopted the worship of the Red Goddess and the Moon pantheon. If they're from parts further north, places that don't really have Orlanthi roots, then while you could go as far back as Darhudan(a) a.k.a. Daka Fal you'd probably be better off doing this syncretic thing where they recognize kinship as the children of the Great Earth Goddess, whether she be called Ernalda or Oria or something else. If they're from Sylila, Holay, or Tarsh, though, you could extend the Berenethtelli connection, since modern Sylila is where the Berenethtelli lived in the Storm Age and IIRC the reigning Queen of Holay reigns from a Horse Throne and has explicit associations with Redayle (or is at least implied to).

Not sure about specifically "Lunar" touches (rather than, say, Lunar Tarshite ones), other than some elements of Pelorian fashion, maybe the growing of rice or something, depending on whether the environment can support that? I'm definitely not the one to ask about it. Though maybe if they're Dara Happans they can claim some descent from lost Nivorah, the Golden Age city of Reladivus (one of Yelm's eight sons), who also had some implied connection with Redayle. Then again, I have a certain bias for pretty much all the assorted "Horse People" of Glorantha, so maybe I'm just looking for any excuse to put them everywhere at this point.

1 hour ago, HeartQuintessence said:

So I guesst the question is how does one weave together a mythos that's perhaps been untold for ages, and pull it back into the light.

Comparing myths and gods and such to see where the stories might line up and have traits in common, explore those connections through speaking to gods and ancestors, or even through a Heroquest if they feel really confident that they'll find the answer they're looking for on the path they're embarking on and won't crash and burn on the way (an experimental Heroquest is not something to embark on lightly, and not something your average magician can pull off).

[Bohemond]

On 6/28/2020 at 8:31 AM, Nick Underwood said:

I was inspired by the notion of internal vs external stories to look back over some of the agricultural stuff: thinking along the lines that internal stories will be driven by events and practices of everyday life, and what is more everyday than getting enough food on the table.

Looking at the RQG stuff on agriculture that I'd ignored before, I came across this: "A plow requires two oxen to pull. Among most farmers in the Dragon Pass region, only certain people may use the plow upon the earth, most commonly initiates of Orlanth or his son, Barntar the Plow God." (RQG: p177)

So my first thought was: Typical Orlanthi sexists with their patriarchal appropriation of the means of production.

Second thought was: Wow!! What potent mythological significance lies behind that social rule. Ploughing the land: the violent penetration and scarring of the submissive Earth by masculine power, followed by the casual broadcasting of his seed...  This is not only about limiting women's access to the tools of survival, this is about ritually re-enacting the rape and submission of womankind. Barntar, you dark horse!

How would your Women's Clan respond to the cultural and mythological constraints? 

Do you subvert the social rules (and the narrative) by becoming Plough-women and adopting mythologically appropriate attitudes. (I can plough Ernalda as well as any man...)

Or could you instead adopt a no-plough agriculture that depends on cooperation with the feminine powers of fertility rather than domination? (There is is more than one way to bring a food forest to climax.) This latter option could be something that looks a lot like modern permaculture. But it may also be a more ancient tradition from a time before the windy gods when Earth cults predominated. So as your new clan looks for a mythological voice, it may find it is rediscovering something that has always been just under the surface.

Or, another idea, perhaps you could invert the power relations within in the dominant myth? A shy and timid Barntar cultist has to be coaxed (actually paid!) into action, and is symbolically tied to the plough - now pulled by feminine-associated dinosaurs who scrape Orlanth's brother over the land until the Earth goddess is satisfied.(Yay, triceratops-plough!)

Whatever the solution, women's agriculture offers some interesting opportunities (and motivations) for building the mythological foundations of your clan.
 

Another way to read plowing is not as the violent violation of the earth but as a response to the earth goddess 'opening her legs' to receive the male phallus/plow. So one could posit a ritual in which the priest(ess) asks the earth to receive the plow and the goddess responds by blessing the ritual. Also, there may be a plowing ritual in which the plower apologizes for breaking the earth open (the way Orlanthi men apologize for having to cut down Esrola in Earth Season). 

So it's all in how a particular clan frames the action. The former feels more Peace clan to me, while perhaps a Balanced clan does the latter. 

[Bohemond]

On 6/28/2020 at 12:40 PM, Nick Underwood said:

And you found a solution to a perennial issue I have with clan exogamy! If everyone marries outside the clan, then bloodlines have no blood ties between them and share no ancestry. What is holding the clan together? Only the unifying force of the Wyter? Your solution is a first-class anthropological discovery: same-clan parents may be common, but needs no marriage contract as there there can be no dispute over which clan the children belong to. That will be my answer hereon-in.

 

But if multiple clans traditionally marry amongst themselves using female exogamy, what will happen within a few generations is that the clans are all woven together. I'm in Bloodline A. My sister marries out of the Bluerock Clan into the Greenrock clan. A generation later, her Greenrock daughter marries into Bloodline B of the Bluerocks. That means that My grandson is now a member of Bloodline B but has ties to me through his mother. So Bloodline A and Bloodline B are now cousins. Over time the Bloodlines are going to be pretty tight, with everyone's aunt being someone else's cousins. 

[jajagappa]

55 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

But if multiple clans traditionally marry amongst themselves using female exogamy, what will happen within a few generations is that the clans are all woven together.

Assuming the bloodlines mostly take wives from the same clans.  If Bloodline A (perhaps due to a prominent spouse) marries from the Ernaldoring clan, but Bloodline B prefers to marry from the Hiording clan, then rather than becoming tight, the bloodlines grow divergent.  

This is where the Earth temple and the leading women come into play in "weaving" together sufficient marriages across the bloodlines to ensure strong kinship.

[Ian Absentia]

1 minute ago, jajagappa said:

This is where the Earth temple and the leading women come into play in "weaving" together sufficient marriages across the bloodlines to ensure strong kinship.

And to produce the Kwisatz Haderach!

!i!

[jajagappa]

27 minutes ago, Ian Absentia said:

And to produce the Kwisatz Haderach!

Or the Argrath! 😉

[Leingod]

3 hours ago, Bohemond said:

Another way to read plowing is not as the violent violation of the earth but as a response to the earth goddess 'opening her legs' to receive the male phallus/plow. So one could posit a ritual in which the priest(ess) asks the earth to receive the plow and the goddess responds by blessing the ritual. Also, there may be a plowing ritual in which the plower apologizes for breaking the earth open (the way Orlanthi men apologize for having to cut down Esrola in Earth Season). 

So it's all in how a particular clan frames the action. The former feels more Peace clan to me, while perhaps a Balanced clan does the latter. 

The way it's described in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes is that the plowman "turns the Earth to meet the Air." So, in the Heortling view, you're uniting husband and wife to make the land fertile so that Ernalda's daughters (the crops) can be born and grow. Barntar himself is repeatedly described as the link between the powers of Air and Earth, as much Ernalda's son as Orlanth's even if he isn't allowed to know the deeper mysteries of life and fertility (merely being the facilitator of it).

Further, Barntar is described as Ernalda's favorite son, and there's no mention of any enmity or hostility directed his way from Maran or Babeester (in fact the former tried to keep him as a thrall once and put him to work for her), so it doesn't seem like the Earth goddesses treat Barntar's plowing as a rape or defilement or any such kind of crime or injustice (and if it were, Babeester in particular would have a lot to say about it, and her axe would be doing the talking). Of the Earth goddess I'm aware of only Aldrya hates that kind of thing, but only on the principle that she wants wild forests instead of farmlands and doesn't care about what anyone else wants or needs.

2 hours ago, Bohemond said:

But if multiple clans traditionally marry amongst themselves using female exogamy, what will happen within a few generations is that the clans are all woven together. I'm in Bloodline A. My sister marries out of the Bluerock Clan into the Greenrock clan. A generation later, her Greenrock daughter marries into Bloodline B of the Bluerocks. That means that My grandson is now a member of Bloodline B but has ties to me through his mother. So Bloodline A and Bloodline B are now cousins. Over time the Bloodlines are going to be pretty tight, with everyone's aunt being someone else's cousins. 

That's sort of how you get what's called a "triaty," a small three-clan tribe seen in the Human Resettlement where men of Clan A only marry women from Clan B, men from Clan B only marry women from Clan C, and men from Clan C only marry women from Clan A (potentially you could also reverse this with male exogamy, which may well be what the Tree Triaty did, we don't actually know much about them). It's a good way to help cut down on inbreeding and ensure strong relationships in a tense situation where you don't know your neighbors (and may not have any for a while) and your population is quite small.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Leingod

[HeartQuintessence]

1 hour ago, Leingod said:

The way it's described in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes is that the plowman "turns the Earth to meet the Air." So, in the Heortling view, you're uniting husband and wife to make the land fertile so that Ernalda's daughters (the crops) can be born and grow. Barntar himself is repeatedly described as the link between the powers of Air and Earth, as much Ernalda's son as Orlanth's even if he isn't allowed to know the deeper mysteries of life and fertility (merely being the facilitator of it).

Further, Barntar is described as Ernalda's favorite son, and there's no mention of any enmity or hostility directed his way from Maran or Babeester (in fact the former tried to keep him as a thrall once and put him to work for her), so it doesn't seem like the Earth goddesses treat Barntar's plowing as a rape or defilement or any such kind of crime or injustice (and if it were, Babeester in particular would have a lot to say about it, and her axe would be doing the talking). Of the Earth goddess I'm aware of only Aldrya hates that kind of thing, but only on the principle that she wants wild forests instead of farmlands and doesn't care about what anyone else wants or needs.

That's sort of how you get what's called a "triaty," a small three-clan tribe seen in the Human Resettlement where men of Clan A only marry women from Clan B, men from Clan B only marry women from Clan C, and men from Clan C only marry women from Clan A (potentially you could also reverse this with male exogamy, which may well be what the Tree Triaty did, we don't actually know much about them). It's a good way to help cut down on inbreeding and ensure strong relationships in a tense situation where you don't know your neighbors (and may not have any for a while) and your population is quite small.

 Well all of this is super informative.
I definately think this clan is more Peaceclan, or a Balanced clan. From their outset 'There is ALWAYS another way' has helped and held them together.
I think male Exogamy is what I was going for originally, that the men marry out more often, but if/when the women do marry out, they always make sure to leave a child or two with the clan.

[jajagappa]

22 hours ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Their Ancestresses include, each of the big bloodlines anyway
 Lunars: Thaenya Suren Estara
Grazelander: Eneela Ring-Mother
Orlanthi :Irvarnestra The Shepard

So I guesst the question is how does one weave together a mythos that's perhaps been untold for ages, and pull it back into the light.

I find that the clan draws from all of its groups to create something visually unique- like adult women wear their hair a certain way and advertise their williness for lovers or husbands with ornaments (rings woven or braided, so a girl's first set is important.)

I feel like the Lunar Empire needs to contributed polish- but since they're no long in big cities  its a little hard. Suggestions?

The Lunars are about Balance - the balance of elements, the balance of Runic powers, etc. None of that needs to have anything to do with a city, but it suggests they would push for a Balanced clan that mixes peace and war together.  Not too far one way, not too far another.

You could draw on the approach used in the Eleven Lights p.160 when the Eleven Lights forms their wyter.  Think of it as a ceremonial ritual (if RQG, then all three leaders would make their respective Worship roles on some Sanctified ground within the community). 

What they do is tell the stories that are important for the clan.  Maybe they draw lots to determine who tells which piece.  Maybe they do it jointly, each adding the next piece to the tale, so they never quite know where it's going to go.  As in the Eleven Lights, use the Clan Generation Questionnaire from SKoH, but only the questions related to the God Time (not to the Era of Time).  In my games, I would do this collectively, probably using a Poll for each question and determining the outcome.  But, if you have three players acting as the leaders, and they draw lots, then the players take turns deciding on a given answer.  If you have certain questions for which you get two or three different but equally chosen outcomes, then weave those answers together - maybe there were two ancient foes, not one, and that is why the ancient clan shattered (think of the fall of Hippoi the horse who had three ancient foes).  Where there are multiple answers, there is a story that is unique to this clan.

Given the mix of Lunars, Grazelander, and Orlanthi, I might replace certain questions or add in more responses.  (e.g. KoDP has a similar clan generator, but some slightly different answers.  Grazer myths may suggest some other alternatives.)  I tend to like variety so I've added in to mine .

E.g. Which treasure did Asrelia give your people?  In the basic version it's either the Rich Swan or the Full Dish and Spoon.  But maybe pull something out of GRoY or the Entekosiad.  Maybe it was the Measuring Stick, or the Silver Scales, or the Plumb Bob?  

Or What Remnant people joined you?  Maybe this ties into one of the three groups that have formed this clan?  Maybe it was Youmeemuoy, the Half-and-Halfs? Or Nohpyrg, the Lost Wings?

But the end result is that you have the myths and stories that the new clan realizes are Truths - the pieces that have been woven together and make them something new.  At the end you have a clan that has discovered what they like or don't like, who their allies are, and their foes. They realize the Virtues and Passions that are important to them.  Based on what you've put together, you can likely sketch out some of the powers that the clan wyter possesses, too.

[HeartQuintessence]

13 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

The Lunars are about Balance - the balance of elements, the balance of Runic powers, etc. None of that needs to have anything to do with a city, but it suggests they would push for a Balanced clan that mixes peace and war together.  Not too far one way, not too far another.

You could draw on the approach used in the Eleven Lights p.160 when the Eleven Lights forms their wyter.  Think of it as a ceremonial ritual (if RQG, then all three leaders would make their respective Worship roles on some Sanctified ground within the community). 

What they do is tell the stories that are important for the clan.  Maybe they draw lots to determine who tells which piece.  Maybe they do it jointly, each adding the next piece to the tale, so they never quite know where it's going to go.  As in the Eleven Lights, use the Clan Generation Questionnaire from SKoH, but only the questions related to the God Time (not to the Era of Time).  In my games, I would do this collectively, probably using a Poll for each question and determining the outcome.  But, if you have three players acting as the leaders, and they draw lots, then the players take turns deciding on a given answer.  If you have certain questions for which you get two or three different but equally chosen outcomes, then weave those answers together - maybe there were two ancient foes, not one, and that is why the ancient clan shattered (think of the fall of Hippoi the horse who had three ancient foes).  Where there are multiple answers, there is a story that is unique to this clan.

Given the mix of Lunars, Grazelander, and Orlanthi, I might replace certain questions or add in more responses.  (e.g. KoDP has a similar clan generator, but some slightly different answers.  Grazer myths may suggest some other alternatives.)  I tend to like variety so I've added in to mine .

E.g. Which treasure did Asrelia give your people?  In the basic version it's either the Rich Swan or the Full Dish and Spoon.  But maybe pull something out of GRoY or the Entekosiad.  Maybe it was the Measuring Stick, or the Silver Scales, or the Plumb Bob?  

Or What Remnant people joined you?  Maybe this ties into one of the three groups that have formed this clan?  Maybe it was Youmeemuoy, the Half-and-Halfs? Or Nohpyrg, the Lost Wings?

But the end result is that you have the myths and stories that the new clan realizes are Truths - the pieces that have been woven together and make them something new.  At the end you have a clan that has discovered what they like or don't like, who their allies are, and their foes. They realize the Virtues and Passions that are important to them.  Based on what you've put together, you can likely sketch out some of the powers that the clan wyter possesses, too.

I like this plan, but now this means I have to understand what  in the Lozenge any of this actually means? Like what answers are correct? I don't have a group to do this with (I don't know how to GM or the understanding).. but dang would that help in form things.

 

But that does make me think about the world that must exist.

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, HeartQuintessence said:

Like what answers are correct? I don't have a group to do this with (I don't know how to GM or the understanding).. but dang would that help in form things.

What answers are correct? Any, none, whichever. 🙂

If helpful, I can post you the typical questions and possible answers here, and you can choose as you see fit (or tell the story of the answer!)

[John Biles]

 

5 hours ago, Leingod said:

The way it's described in Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes is that the plowman "turns the Earth to meet the Air." So, in the Heortling view, you're uniting husband and wife to make the land fertile so that Ernalda's daughters (the crops) can be born and grow. Barntar himself is repeatedly described as the link between the powers of Air and Earth, as much Ernalda's son as Orlanth's even if he isn't allowed to know the deeper mysteries of life and fertility (merely being the facilitator of it).

Further, Barntar is described as Ernalda's favorite son, and there's no mention of any enmity or hostility directed his way from Maran or Babeester (in fact the former tried to keep him as a thrall once and put him to work for her), so it doesn't seem like the Earth goddesses treat Barntar's plowing as a rape or defilement or any such kind of crime or injustice (and if it were, Babeester in particular would have a lot to say about it, and her axe would be doing the talking). Of the Earth goddess I'm aware of only Aldrya hates that kind of thing, but only on the principle that she wants wild forests instead of farmlands and doesn't care about what anyone else wants or needs.

Barntar's secret power is nitrogen-fixing; he draws down the chemicals needed to renew the land from the sky.

I would note that an option for a tribe which was female-led / male hostile would be cultivation of fruit trees.  No plowing required, gives fruit every year, also a source of wood for you to some degree.Fruit trees would probably be mainly tended by women, as they would be seen as the gift of Ernalda.  Ditto for berry bushes.

  

[Ian Absentia]

1 hour ago, John Biles said:

I would note that an option for a tribe which was female-led / male hostile would be cultivation of fruit trees.  No plowing required, gives fruit every year, also a source of wood for you to some degree.

I've noted hint of this heresy further up-thread.  That way lies Aldyra.  Next thing you know you lot will be offering up sacrifice in a wicker-man.

!i!

[Leingod]

Plenty of Heortlings and Sartarites seem to cultivate fruits already. There are clans named for fruits or with nicknames referring to fruits (the Antorling are called the "Apple Clan," there's a Cinsina clan called the Blueberry, the Konthasos are named after the goddess of grapes and are called the "Wine Clan"), and one of the oldest adventures set in Sartar takes place in a hamlet called Apple Lane.

EDIT: Found a relevant passage from Sartar: Kingdom of Heroes:

Quote

Farm land is gifted by the clan to each free farmer in small field strips about the size a plow team can work in a day or two. A team of four to eight oxen pulls the plow, guided by the plowman (usually a carl) and the ox-driver (often his wife or a son). The fields of a single farmer are typically scattered throughout the clan lands and marked by low walls built from the stony ground. Many clans also have small fruit orchards and vineyards that are worked by individual families.

 

Edited July 1, 2020 by Leingod

[Grievous]

Come on, plowing is sex (and definitely not non-consentual, it's not like Broolings sprout out of the earth or anything*): reproductive, fertile, wholesome, sweaty.

* That would make a decent adventure hook, though.

[Leingod]

50 minutes ago, Grievous said:

Come on, plowing is sex (and definitely not non-consentual, it's not like Broolings sprout out of the earth or anything*): reproductive, fertile, wholesome, sweaty.

* That would make a decent adventure hook, though.

Depends on which kind of plow you're using. The lodril plow? Absolutely, that's his wife after all.

Edited July 1, 2020 by Leingod

[HeartQuintessence]

I do envision my clan as Female Led, but they're not male hostile. They just are not. Their real female lead and oriented leadership structure reflects their earliest years in 1613 ect. And the fact that they never truely had a enough adult men. So they've had to sort of deal with it.  Their first protofyrd, all women (Vingans, Babesteer and Maran Gor worshipers). And  they seemed to gain more women with each passing year, simply because they too people in who needed it (didn't make the clan who's land they were living on happy hence telling them to leave)

Actually I guess the Koza's existance on the Anwyth's land would be pretty bad- but maybe the Koza +cloudsheep were a good thing. Good herd genetics.

@jajagappa - The question aire, sure. I think coming up and creating a solid question aire might be worth it. For this clan, since we can spice it up with 3 times the questions.