Consequences for Killing Major Named NPCs

[ZedAlpha]

Our Heroes get sent to the Isles to re/claim them for Esrolia (and the rest of the Holy Country, of course, but mostly Esrolia), and find some of these magical Chaos monster eggs that attract the attention of the giant monster. The heroes are sent North to get the help of Argrath the Illuminated (who also needs help fighting the Battle of Heroes now that Harrek's gone--or maybe that battle never happens since the Lunars are distracted up North, dealing with vengeful glacier gods?), and by fleeing north with their treasures, the monster follows them. 

The Dragonrise happens, a True Dragon fights Godzilla, and...I don't know, something happens, but it'd be neat.

[John Biles]

15 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

Our Heroes get sent to the Isles to re/claim them for Esrolia (and the rest of the Holy Country, of course, but mostly Esrolia), and find some of these magical Chaos monster eggs that attract the attention of the giant monster. The heroes are sent North to get the help of Argrath the Illuminated (who also needs help fighting the Battle of Heroes now that Harrek's gone--or maybe that battle never happens since the Lunars are distracted up North, dealing with vengeful glacier gods?), and by fleeing north with their treasures, the monster follows them. 

The Dragonrise happens, a True Dragon fights Godzilla, and...I don't know, something happens, but it'd be neat.

The True Dragon needs to be played by King Ghidorah, then

(If Dragonnewts mistake the eggs for Dragon Eggs, they could deliver them to the Dragonrise Dragon, giving a good readon for them to fight each other)

[ZedAlpha]

Could/should I cheat the timeline a bit so that this is both after the sack of the City of Wonders and the Battle of Heroes, but before Dragonrise? Would that make sense?

[John Biles]

5 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

Could/should I cheat the timeline a bit so that this is both after the sack of the City of Wonders and the Battle of Heroes, but before Dragonrise? Would that make sense?

It's your Glorantha and you can do what you want

The Battle of Heroes is outside Esrolia, so you can easily jigger it around.

 

[ZedAlpha]

that still sound so friggin' weird to hear (well, read, but you know what I mean) on the official forum of the actual setting. I'm not used to that anywhere outside discussions of homebrew settings.

[Darius West]

On 2/1/2021 at 4:55 PM, ZedAlpha said:

I don't know. I'm curious as to what might happen. I'm also really curious about any times where any of y'all's games might have had a similar situation with another Big Important Named NPC From The Lore.

Firstly, it isn't going to work.  Harrek should be modelled on pirate kings, and famously Edward Teach (Blackbeard) could leave his purse full of gold on the counter at any drinking hole in Port Royal and nobody would dare to touch it.  This was because quite apart from his own fearsome reputation, Teach had hundreds of sailors spying for him who would instantly report any such transgression to their boss.  It is likely that any plot to kill Harrek is already pre-detected and pre-infiltrated.  Then there is the problem that Harrek is essentially more of a badass than Conan the Barbarian, and you can't really surprise him.  And even if you do manage to slip him poison and he somehow dies of it, you won't get to destroy the body and he can just be resurrected that afternoon by the local Chalana Arroys.  A superhero invariably has a party of personal retainers and supporters who are also extremely dangerous.  If it were easy to kill a superhero, everyone would be doing it.  Strangely, while plenty may try, nobody does it.  Even the assassin token is very unlikely to succeed (16% if I remember the maths) in the KoDP boardgame, and those guys are professionals.

On 2/1/2021 at 6:54 PM, John Biles said:

If they kill Harrek in front of his men in a blatant 'we just slaughtered Harrek' kind of way, the Wolf Pirates probably take off and flee back to Ygg's islands because you are a terrifying person.

Nah, murder by stealth is not going to intimidate the Wolf Pirates.  Any schmoe might get lucky and sucker punch any one of them, and then they need their crewmates to intervene to remind the lucky schmoe that he ain't so lucky. The assassins will be reduced to paste and fed to the sharks.  After that, the Wolf Pirates will just go and get Harrek resurrected.  At worst they will elect Gunda to be the new commander if Harrek can't be resurrected.  Harrek is no stoop, and can almost certainly resurrect himself however, straight out of the underworld in a short sweet hero quest.  Even superheroes can't really kill other superheroes for long. It's a major undertaking even for other superheroes.  That's one of the problems with the Hero Wars... everyone keeps coming back for another swing.

You would literally have to pursue Harrek into the underworld and kill him over and over again until his spirit lost all connection to his identity.  Even then, the Lunars did this to Sheng Seleris in their Lunar Hells, and it didn't quite take, but then, he was rescued.  I would strongly advise having you own personal hellscape in order to keep Harrek properly contained, or it could go badly.  No, let's just face the fact it is going to go badly.  Jar-Eel couldn't kill him, and had to give her life to merely pacify him, and Jar-Eel is the Red Moon Goddess incarnate.

[ZedAlpha]

My group has already figured out a way that it can be done, at least in the 'canon' of our own game. The one experienced Gloranthan gamer among us basically gave us that same speech, but we're going along with it 'cause it seems fun. This thread is more about planning/plotting out what would/could happen next. 

[John Biles]

44 minutes ago, Darius West said:

Firstly, it isn't going to work.  Harrek should be modelled on pirate kings, and famously Edward Teach (Blackbeard) could leave his purse full of gold on the counter at any drinking hole in Port Royal and nobody would dare to touch it.  This was because quite apart from his own fearsome reputation, Teach had hundreds of sailors spying for him who would instantly report any such transgression to their boss.  It is likely that any plot to kill Harrek is already pre-detected and pre-infiltrated.  Then there is the problem that Harrek is essentially more of a badass than Conan the Barbarian, and you can't really surprise him.  And even if you do manage to slip him poison and he somehow dies of it, you won't get to destroy the body and he can just be resurrected that afternoon by the local Chalana Arroys.  A superhero invariably has a party of personal retainers and supporters who are also extremely dangerous.  If it were easy to kill a superhero, everyone would be doing it.  Strangely, while plenty may try, nobody does it.  Even the assassin token is very unlikely to succeed (16% if I remember the maths) in the KoDP boardgame, and those guys are professionals.

Nah, murder by stealth is not going to intimidate the Wolf Pirates.  Any schmoe might get lucky and sucker punch any one of them, and then they need their crewmates to intervene to remind the lucky schmoe that he ain't so lucky. The assassins will be reduced to paste and fed to the sharks.  After that, the Wolf Pirates will just go and get Harrek resurrected.  At worst they will elect Gunda to be the new commander if Harrek can't be resurrected.  Harrek is no stoop, and can almost certainly resurrect himself however, straight out of the underworld in a short sweet hero quest.  Even superheroes can't really kill other superheroes for long. It's a major undertaking even for other superheroes.  That's one of the problems with the Hero Wars... everyone keeps coming back for another swing.

You would literally have to pursue Harrek into the underworld and kill him over and over again until his spirit lost all connection to his identity.  Even then, the Lunars did this to Sheng Seleris in their Lunar Hells, and it didn't quite take, but then, he was rescued.  I would strongly advise having you own personal hellscape in order to keep Harrek properly contained, or it could go badly.  No, let's just face the fact it is going to go badly.  Jar-Eel couldn't kill him, and had to give her life to merely pacify him, and Jar-Eel is the Red Moon Goddess incarnate.

Eh, if the PCs of a game can't change anything, they might as well just kill themselves.

This is an RPG, not a novel.

But let me point out a few things.

Harrek is not the 'have a big network of agents in the area' kind of Pirate King.  He's more of a 'Viking who comes out of nowhere, slaughters you, moves on' kind of figure.  Harrek doesn't get away with what he does through intelligence operations.  He shows up and is an unstoppable killing machine.

Also, the Holy Country is not the Caribbean, it's not overrun with pirates normally, and the whole social context is rather different.  Also, whatever spies Blackbeard had failed to save him *from being hunted and killed*.

Secondly, you really think Esrolians are going to all spy for Harrek?  Harrek is everything the nation of Esrolia hates.  No one in the Holy Country actually likes Harrek save his men and many Argath.  

Thirdly, this is a conspiracy of four PCs.  It can't be infiltrated.  From reading the actual thread of their plan, anyone who DID spy on them would think they were some sort of Trickster lunatics not worth caring about.

Fourthly, a warband disintegrating on the death of its heroic leader is pretty much plugged into the tropes about these kinds of warbands and leaders.  But also, anyone who can kill a Superhero normally is the kind of person who will go through ordinary wolf pirates like Bruce Lee fighting unnamed mooks.

Fifthly, given their plan (which I am guessing you didn't read the thread), Harrek is going to be seriously weakened by all this if it works, as he will lose his control of the Bear God.  He may well get resurrected, but it's a setback.

But finally, this is a thread which presumes it's possible to kill Harrek, so what happens, not a thread for asserting that the OP is wrong-bad-fun.

 

 

[Akhôrahil]

2 hours ago, John Biles said:

Harrek is not the 'have a big network of agents in the area' kind of Pirate King.  He's more of a 'Viking who comes out of nowhere, slaughters you, moves on' kind of figure.  Harrek doesn't get away with what he does through intelligence operations.  He shows up and is an unstoppable killing machine.

Harrek doesn’t seem to be all that interested in smarts when he raids, perhaps because he doesn’t need to be. The attack on Holy Country in the comic is depicted as a frontal assault on the military might of the HC and one of the top ten or so magical persons of Genertela, and only works out because Harrek is personally unstoppable.

[ZedAlpha]

When we eventually have the Harrek Must Die session, should I put the recap here, or is that what the blog section of the website is more properly for?

[Rodney Dangerduck]

"Bear Harrek must die!
Don't let him get back together
With Glenn Frey!
Bear Harrek must die!"

[jean]

A side question.

Once Harrek is dead, what will the group do with his white bear skin?

 

Such a powerful artefact can certainly be put to good use to restore peace in Glorantha.

Who will be strong enough to put on this mantle?

 

[ZedAlpha]

good question. Right now, the players' main plan is to separate Harrek from the Bear God first through use of the Infinity Rune, then just murder the pissed-off meat man that remains. I'd imagine that after that, the bear skin would just be a rather warm, impressive cape. 

[soltakss]

57 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

When we eventually have the Harrek Must Die session, should I put the recap here, or is that what the blog section of the website is more properly for?

Here and in the blog!

 

[Akhôrahil]

1 hour ago, jean said:

Such a powerful artefact can certainly be put to good use to restore peace in Glorantha.

Who will be strong enough to put on this mantle?

That thing needs to be brought to Caladraland and tossed in a volcano, and even then I wouldn’t be certain! 🙂

[jajagappa]

1 hour ago, ZedAlpha said:

I'd imagine that after that, the bear skin would just be a rather warm, impressive cape. 

Or suddenly they find that the bear skin is in fact a god, a rather angry White Bear god in its own right (it might actually take its own revenge upon Harrek!).  And it's only going to be happy when the PC's aid it in returning to its glacial home...

[Eff]

22 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Or suddenly they find that the bear skin is in fact a god, a rather angry White Bear god in its own right (it might actually take its own revenge upon Harrek!).  And it's only going to be happy when the PC's aid it in returning to its glacial home...

Why, it might even give them the strongest blessings of the White Bear! They may never (need to) sleep again! They may feel compelled to eat the fattiest foods they can find, or sit still for days while they fish, waiting for the right prey to come along! 

Certainly, gifts such as those can't be refused. 

[Akhôrahil]

4 minutes ago, Eff said:

Why, it might even give them the strongest blessings of the White Bear! They may never (need to) sleep again!

Or they may have to sleep all winter! 🙂

[Eff]

1 minute ago, Akhôrahil said:

Or they may have to sleep all winter! 🙂

Well, the White Bear's blessing is to avoid hibernation and stay awake through the winter, (and when Harrek skinned the White Bear, all of the Rathori had to sleep through the entire winter from then on) but maybe normal humans are so deficient in the simple bear necessities of life that they end up needing to hibernate. 

[Akhôrahil]

Just now, Eff said:

Well, the White Bear's blessing is to avoid hibernation and stay awake through the winter

Huh, interesting! I always thought it was just something Polar Bear related, and they’re not famous for that.

[ZedAlpha]

8 minutes ago, Eff said:

Well, the White Bear's blessing is to avoid hibernation and stay awake through the winter, (and when Harrek skinned the White Bear, all of the Rathori had to sleep through the entire winter from then on) but maybe normal humans are so deficient in the simple bear necessities of life that they end up needing to hibernate. 

 

45 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

Or suddenly they find that the bear skin is in fact a god, a rather angry White Bear god in its own right (it might actually take its own revenge upon Harrek!).  And it's only going to be happy when the PC's aid it in returning to its glacial home...

ooh. 

I like it. To go with @Eff's idea from yesterday: the heroes are given stewardship of the Three Step Isles. During the journey there or while they're there, they're approached by a Rathori who was sent there by their reawakened Bear God: their groggy god seeks to reunite his skin (now a seperate, very angry entity) with himself through a Heroquest. Before Harrek gets woken up by his valkyrie friend and decides to kill his way through half the God Time to get "his" god back. 

Then meanwhile, Argrath of Sartar, missing one of his key allies, asks for the Bear-Killers for help against the Lunars. Our Heroes can definitely use the Rathori bear-god's assistance against the Lunar Empire, and then....OH. 

OH OKAY. 

I'm typing like this because (while typing) I finally decided to read the Guide to Glorantha I purchased last night and happened on the Monster island page. Our Heroes could return the stolen Kaiju eggs to Monster Island, gain the loyalty of one of the Non-Copyright-Infringing God-Monsters that are there, claim the lost treasure for good measure, and return to Gernetela at the head of a swarm of mountain-sized beasts that can and will stomp their way through the Lunar Empire. 

[jajagappa]

7 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

Our Heroes could return the stolen Kaiju eggs to Monster Island, gain the loyalty of one of the Non-Copyright-Infringing God-Monsters that are there, claim the lost treasure for good measure, and return to Gernetela at the head of a swarm of mountain-sized beasts that can and will stomp their way through the Lunar Empire. 

Certainly sounds like a grand plan!

Watch out for the returning Firebergs though, and the chaotic Mother of Monsters (who if I recall correctly was forced out into the ocean by Harrek during his circumnavigation of the ocean and may be heading northward).  Or Leviathan who hasn't been seen in awhile but now that the Closing has ended, just might show back up...

[ZedAlpha]

gonna have to look up who those monsters are

[jajagappa]

6 minutes ago, ZedAlpha said:

gonna have to look up who those monsters are

Mother of Monsters is fun.  More like a feature of nature, but she used to wander the shores of the Maslo Sea (in Pamaltela) and each day gave birth to one chaos monster.  The type of chaos monster born depended on whether it was born on land, at sea, or on the shore (based on the tidal factor).  These horrors are dangerous enough!

[ZedAlpha]

oh god, if this timeline turns the Hero Wars into the Monster Wars...