rust Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 For what its worth, GURPS has a series of PDFs detailing a, I believe, rather abstract ship construction system. It also includes s space combat system focused on the PCs at their different stations. I've no idea how good either is, but I think the intent was to design simple, quick and fun systems to play. The ship design system is indeed quite good, it is a version of the GURPS Ve- hicles system with the unnecessary complexities removed - still a little more complex than the simple modular system used for GURPS Traveller, with a lot more modules / options, but not more difficult to handle. One basically chooses a hull of a specific size and then fills it with whatever modules one wants for the type of ship: Bridge, drives, staterooms, weapons, cargo hold, and so on. Each module has a size and mass and power require- ments and a specific function. Quote "Mind like parachute, function only when open." (Charlie Chan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 The ship design system is indeed quite good If one had the time, one could combine the OGL release of D6 Space Ships (weg51017OGL.pdf) with the MRQ or OpenQuest SRD. The feasibility of such an endeavor is at least worth investigating. WEG Forums OGL Books Link Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarulf Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 One basically chooses a hull of a specific size and then fills it with whatever modules one wants for the type of ship: Right. I bought the first PDF out of curiosity, but only read through it the once. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atgxtg Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Well, I'm letting the cat out of the bag here, but I've got something in the works to cover Spaceship Design in BRP. I've sent out a one-page design sheet, with no rules and only my old SIZ table to accompany it, to a few people, and so far it looks like it is fairly easy, and workable. It's possible to put together a ship in a few minutes (I hope). It still has a few teething problems-mostly getting the numbers to match up with the handful of spaceships in the BRP core book, but it's getting close. I'm awaiting feedback from my Guinea Pigs...er, playtesters to see how well it works and how easy it is to pick up. The system is design to scale automatically with the SIZ of the ship, so it won't be much more difficult to design a battleship as it would be to design a starfighter. You will spend a bit more time selecting weapons for the battleship and figuring out the crew complement, but not too much. One perk to the system, at least from my point of view, is that it actually does do things like thrust/mass ratio and power generated, but does so in the background. Designers don't need to know about that stuff, and can choose to look tit up on tables or not. The only thing they need to look up is the SIZ and mass of their ship. Additionally, the system is somewhat modular, so people can create "plug-ins" to customize the rules to a particular setting. So if someone wanted to run a Star Wars, Star Trek, or Traveller campaign using BRP, they would just need to use the appropriate "plug-in"m and replace things like the default FTL drive with the rules for Hyperdrives, Warp Drives, or Jump Drives. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 If one had the time, one could combine the OGL release of D6 Space Ships (weg51017OGL.pdf)... I playtested that one :thumb: Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingTriskele Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 As long as your re-writing everything in your own words you should be ok. GURPS cant copyright Berserk, nor the fact that it makes you disregard your own safety or attack your own friends any more than Wizards of the Coast can claim copyright infringement if Classic Fantasy happens to have a Fireball spell with a 3 meter radius. I hate to say this, but at this point the quickest/easiest way for me to do conversion of GURPS Advantages/Disadvantages would be to copy the whole section from a PDF and transcribe the rules information from GURPS to BRP-- leave the wording the same. The obvious problem is that I wouldn't be able to distribute it in good conscience until I changed the wording, which could take a lot longer. Still, I guess it could be used as a play-testing prototype. Quote "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." "When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking." ~Albert Einstein~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RosenMcStern Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I still don't see this as necessary. Many people like this part of GURPS. Others don't. BRP does not have this mechanics, and most people like it this way. It's a feature, not a fault. Which does not mean that you cannot write the list and put it on the wiki, of course. Quote Proud member of the Evil CompetitionTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawner Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 (edited) Well, I'm letting the cat out of the bag here, but I've got something in the works to cover Spaceship Design in BRP. I've sent out a one-page design sheet... The more I hear about this, and other SciFi stuff, the more I like it. It's even getting me, an inveterate fantasy fan*, interested in it... (* as opposed to 'invertebrate fantasist') I hate to say this... <naughty idea snipped> Still, I guess it could be used as a play-testing prototype. I can't help thinking both of these situations could be helped by having a less-formal Downloads or Wiki area, like I mentioned the other day. Atgxtg should feel able to whack his not-quite-finished Spaceship Design system there, so we could all comment/playtest it. LivingTriskele could put his Ads/Disads Conversion up there too with just their names (no copyright-infringing descriptions), and those of us with spare time could help out by typing-up original wordings for them. Wouldn't that help us get things to make BRP more popular, more quickly? Edited December 19, 2009 by frogspawner Quote Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 I hate to say this, but at this point the quickest/easiest way for me to do conversion of GURPS Advantages/Disadvantages would be to copy the whole section from a PDF and transcribe the rules information from GURPS to BRP-- leave the wording the same. The obvious problem is that I wouldn't be able to distribute it in good conscience until I changed the wording, which could take a lot longer. Still, I guess it could be used as a play-testing prototype. I have done the same thing many times for my home group. For instance, I took a complete PDF of Star Frontiers and changed the entire thing over to BRP. Completely re-working the weapon and armor tables, racial write-ups etc. Classic Fantasy really got it's beginnings when I was playtesting BRP. I took the players book from the D&D red box set (awesome Elmore cover) and completely converted the PDF as well. Nothing exists within CF from that early beginning, but it's where the idea really originated. Even now I want to do the same thing with the D20 RPG called Mars, and convert my PDF of In Search of the Trollslayer over to Classic Fantasy. The latter would admittedly be considerably easier to do. Of course, for the very reasons you mentioned they will stay within the small confines of my gaming group, which is sad because I think the BRP rules really suit them and I love to share. Rod Long PS - On a more official note, I want to OK with Chaosium the possibility of allowing me to create a cheat-sheet for using In Search of the Trollslayer with Classic Fantasy. Nothing major even needs to be changed. Add alignment and treasure factor to the beasties, re-write the characters as CF Classes (they are already your typical class stereotypes), and maybe substitute a CF spell here and there. What I can do is tell them I'm working on it now, and if I don't hear otherwise in a week, I'll assume it's OK to release. That will pretty much guarantee it's release. >:-> Anyone know how to get a hold of Troy Wilhelmson, the author of Trollslayer? Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingTriskele Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 LivingTriskele could put his Ads/Disads Conversion up there too with just their names (no copyright-infringing descriptions) This might actually be in the realm of the possible! Quote "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." "When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking." ~Albert Einstein~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rust Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Many people like this part of GURPS. Others don't. Over here the point buy system with advantages and disadvantages was the fashion in game design a few years ago, when every new game had to have it. Meanwhile this fashion has died down a lot, mainly because it was so easy to abuse such systems for min/maxing bordering on munchkinism, with cha- racters that were wheelchair bound, blind and allergic to flowers from Ant- arctica, but could read minds and fly through walls ... Right now the trend is once again more like "You can have what you can ro- leplay" than "You can have what you can buy for your points". Quote "Mind like parachute, function only when open." (Charlie Chan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingTriskele Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Over here the point buy system with advantages and disadvantages was the fashion in game design a few years ago, when every new game had to have it. Meanwhile this fashion has died down a lot, mainly because it was so easy to abuse such systems for min/maxing bordering on munchkinism, with cha- racters that were wheelchair bound, blind and allergic to flowers from Ant- arctica, but could read minds and fly through walls ... Right now the trend is once again more like "You can have what you can ro- leplay" than "You can have what you can buy for your points". I've seen that problem before too. I think the point-buy system requires a degree of 'role-player maturity' (oxymoron?) when used without guidelines and restrictions. My thought is to provide it as an option. Fundamentally I don't think BRP needs to be changed much (if any) at all. It would be nice to have some optional components to play with though. Quote "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." "When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking." ~Albert Einstein~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawner Posted December 19, 2009 Author Share Posted December 19, 2009 'role-player maturity' (oxymoron?)Tortology, rather. It would be nice to have some optional components to play with though. Exactly. Some, not many, have in the past criticized BRP for not having Ads/Disads. So it would be nice to be able to refute them. (Even if many, including me, are unlikely to use the system). Which does not mean that you cannot write the list and put it on the wiki, of course. ...so please do, even if incomplete. I guess I'm just imagining the Wiki is too 'formal' for such works-in-progress. Go for it! Quote Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rust Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 Go for it! Yes, indeed. And once we have the "construction site" Frogspawner is thinking of, we can perhaps find a way to make such a system a bit more "munchkin proof", for example by deleting those GURPS advantages that are more likely to be Po- wers in BRP and by also deleting the more silly disadvantages, Quote "Mind like parachute, function only when open." (Charlie Chan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingTriskele Posted December 19, 2009 Share Posted December 19, 2009 ...so please do, even if incomplete. I guess I'm just imagining the Wiki is too 'formal' for such works-in-progress. Go for it! I'll see what I can come up with and keep you posted! Quote "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." "When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking." ~Albert Einstein~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingTriskele Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Over here the point buy system with advantages and disadvantages was the fashion in game design a few years ago, when every new game had to have it. Meanwhile this fashion has died down a lot, mainly because it was so easy to abuse such systems for min/maxing bordering on munchkinism, with cha- racters that were wheelchair bound, blind and allergic to flowers from Ant- arctica, but could read minds and fly through walls ... Right now the trend is once again more like "You can have what you can ro- leplay" than "You can have what you can buy for your points". I think this is a really good point. It's interesting that there are (generally speaking) differences in game style between the U.S. and Europe. I've always been under the impression that BRP is a little more popular in Europe than here. The idea is particularly relevant when discussing ideas to make BRP more popular globally. I confess that I'm probably injecting a more, ehem, American approach to the goal of making BRP more popular. My thoughts in providing an Advantage/Disadvantage component would probably be in lieu of the superpowers already available (though I still need to check out that supers PDF mentioned earlier). But as I said, this would be an optional component. BRP to me is like an old BMW motorcycle, not a lot of frills but its engine is pretty much bulletproof. I wouldn't want to change that. Quote "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." "When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking." ~Albert Einstein~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rust Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) It's interesting that there are (generally speaking) differences in game style between the U.S. and Europe. As for Germany, the differences are probably not very big. In my view the main differences are that many German roleplaying gamers are somewhat less interested in military themes and somewhat more interested in the at- mosphere of a setting than their counterparts in the U.S., and that sex is not as much of a no go in roleplaying. Call of Cthulhu could be an example. Compared to most of the Chaosium coun- terparts, the German supplements deal less with how to fight and kill mythos monsters, and on the other hand describe the setting in as much well resear- ched details that some of the supplements could almost be used as school textbooks (minus the mythos references, of course). And the solo adventure in the back of the player's handbook puts the player into the role of a young woman that has been raped by Deep Ones, has forgotten all about it due to shock amnesia, discovers that she is pregnant, and now tries to find out what has happened to her. Edited December 20, 2009 by rust Quote "Mind like parachute, function only when open." (Charlie Chan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrippyHippy Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I think Call of Cthulhu is more popular in Europe. It may be because it appeals to the sensibilities of Europeans, pertaining to World War 2. That is, American audiences prefer to open up a can of whupass on the bad guy, whereas European's see more heroism in endurance and stoicism in the face of overwhelming adversity. Playing Call of Cthulhu is a bit like listening to late-Pink Floyd or The Smiths maybe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivingTriskele Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) As for Germany, the differences are probably not very big. In my view the main differences are that many German roleplaying gamers are somewhat less interested in military themes and somewhat more interested in the at- mosphere of a setting than their counterparts in the U.S., and that sex is not as much of a no go in roleplaying. Lucky you guys weren't founded by Puritans Kult is another ambiance-filled game I appreciate. There are quite a few gamers in this area that aren't so attracted to the more militant styles of gaming, but I personally know more who'd rather kill things. It can be frustrating. I think Call of Cthulhu is more popular in Europe. CoC is very popular in this area, but then Chaosium used to be literally five minutes away. Edited December 20, 2009 by LivingTriskele Quote "If you want your children to be intelligent, read them fairy tales. If you want them to be more intelligent, read them more fairy tales." "When I examine myself and my methods of thought, I come to the conclusion that the gift of fantasy has meant more to me than any talent for abstract, positive thinking." ~Albert Einstein~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister Apocalypse Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 The more I hear about this, and other SciFi stuff, the more I like it. It's even getting me, an inveterate fantasy fan*, interested in it... (* as opposed to 'invertebrate fantasist') Well if you want, I can send you the sheet to try out. I could probably do with a few more playtesters. They not only have a good chance of spotting something really stupid that I missed, but they also give me a good idea about if the rules are too complex for BRP. I know what I'm willing to go through, but I don't know just what everyone else considers too much. Besides the faster I get feedback, the faster I can get this ready to put in the Download Section. And once there is some sort of spaceship design system, we will have the last missing requirement for the genre. At least the last complex bit. With a few sample designs, then people who don't want to design their own ships could at least use (and maybe modify) the stock designs. And maybe we could collect a bunch of peoples designs into some sort of database or PDF file. I can't help thinking both of these situations could be helped by having a less-formal Downloads or Wiki area, like I mentioned the other day. Atgxtg should feel able to whack his not-quite-finished Spaceship Design system there, so we could all comment/playtest it. LivingTriskele could put his Ads/Disads Conversion up there too with just their names (no copyright-infringing descriptions), and those of us with spare time could help out by typing-up original wordings for them. I suppose I could start a thread like I did in the past for various aspect of vehicle design and my revised SIZ table.Now that SIZ table I really should put in the DL section. Several people seem to use that. What format? PDF or a spreadhseet?. Wouldn't that help us get things to make BRP more popular, more quickly? Yes, new stuff will probably help. What might not be a bad idea would be if we took that list of things and maybe make them a "sticky: in a locked thread. As other good ideas pop up, they could get put into the sticky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frogspawner Posted December 20, 2009 Author Share Posted December 20, 2009 (edited) Well if you want, I can send you the sheet to try out. I could probably do with a few more playtesters. That would be very kind of you. But I'm not sure when I'd get the chance to properly test them [your Spaceship Design rules]. Besides - why should I be so honoured, but others hereabouts miss out? Publish, and be... praised (I expect). Now that SIZ table I really should put in the DL section. Several people seem to use that. What format? PDF or a spreadhseet? Why not both? But also: Download or Wiki? I remember your SIZ table being highly acclaimed, so I'd say it clearly deserves a place in the Wiki. Though I don't really understand the criteria for putting things in one or the other. What's the difference? (If we put things in both places, though, we could run into versioning problems). The downside I see with the Wiki is the special formatting it needs; but it is better for collaborations, because it tracks changes. PS: I suspect a sticky 'ideas' thread would just add to the confusion. Things get lost in long threads, and hopefully it would become long. We probably have all the areas we need already, if we can use them right. Edited December 20, 2009 by frogspawner PS Quote Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 I playtested that one Do you think the ship rules presented in D6 Space Ships would work well with BRP and D100? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rust Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Do you think the ship rules presented in D6 Space Ships would work well with BRP and D100? For those who do not know them, you can download them for free from Drive Thru RPG: D6 Space Ships - West End Games | DriveThruRPG.com Quote "Mind like parachute, function only when open." (Charlie Chan) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dragonewt Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 For those who do not know them, you can download them for free from Drive Thru RPG Those versions are the originals. The link I provided earlier points to the versions that have the OGL license officially appended to the end of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
threedeesix Posted December 20, 2009 Share Posted December 20, 2009 Do you think the ship rules presented in D6 Space Ships would work well with BRP and D100? Maybe, it's been a really long time since I looked at them. Right now I'm more interested in seeing what atgxtg (Mr. Apoc) has come up with as he has always impressed my with his previous vehicular endeavors. If we could get him to rebuild his awesome Space 1999 stuff as well (which I think he said has been lost) I would be very happy. Rod Quote Join my Mythras/RuneQuest 6: Classic Fantasy Yahoo Group at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/RQCF/info "D100 - Exactly 5 times better than D20" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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