How Could BRP Be More Popular...?

[frogspawner]

...BRP needs to be brought up to modernity's standards to compete. To do this it needs to be restructured so it has the option of being a point-buy system (like GURPS 4th Edition or Hero System), with modular balanced components and options. ... And for BRP to really compete with other multi-genre compatible game systems out there it needs to be hardbound with color artwork.

Good points. The hardback/colour art thing is probably beyond Chaosium's capabilities, sadly - but I faced the truth of what you say when I was in my FLGS the other day. But is there no-one around here who could work up a 'modern' point-buy system for BRP?

In my view the BRP science fiction flagship should have all the chapters expected of a good science fiction roleplaying game, for example starship construction, system and world design, and so on.

And someone who could create these things, too?

If I were to propose something in this brainstorming phase, according to my tastes, it would certainly be John Varley's Eight Worlds (a future history that runs very different from Hinleins's one). It was considered the most promising SF saga in the '80s, lots of prizes won. Maybe not today's piece of cake, but it would make a superb RPG.

Certainly it has interesting ideas. Most licensed settings seem to be more trouble than they're worth, though.

Personally, I think we'd need a lot more than Future World, even with O19 added. Future World... barely scratches the surface.

Mmm. There doesn't seem to be much enthusiasm for FutureWorld. BUT... (see later).

(I'm being as non-specific as possible to avoid spoilers). ... I believe very much in the Gate Warden Universe - and whilst I also firmly believe it's a project whose future lies with Chaosium, I'm in no way waiting on them for anything. Dustin has expressed interest in a sequel / follow up to Outpost 19 and I had started something, but this year has been bloody hard both personally and at work...

Sorry to hear about your hard year. Understood about spoilers.

It seems to me the lack of enthusiasm for FutureWorld is an opportunity. We could make of it what we will. Or, rather, Nick - as the only author I know of who's published anything for it (?) in the last 25 years - you can make of it what you will. With some guidance from the guys here, perhaps...

What IS the relationship between the Gate Warden universe and FutureWorld setting, in your view? Is it the same place? Or a slightly-different (or vastly different) parallel? Is GW the future of FW? (Whatever you can tell us without spoilers would be great).

IMHO, the old FutureWorld was a stinker. (Let's politely forget the grossly stupid 'City of Wonder' bolt-on, but even so...) A Sci-Fi setting where everyone walks to the stars (via gates)?? Sci-Fi needs Starships. It's a no-brainer.

However the setting could be salvaged. I'd favour some sort of technological advance, that renders the gates obsolete (difficult) or somehow unusable, perhaps due to a cataclysm (hinted at in the setting already). (Obviously not because of "things from beyond", though ) Suddenly everyone would have to rediscover the (largely lost?) space-travel technology from the First Terran Empire.

But I notice O19 already has at least some proper space-travel - so, how does it tackle the problem?

[rust]

If I had the task to write a science fiction supplement for BRP, I would most

probably ignore Future World completely and take a closer look at Other Suns

and at Star Frontiers.

Other Suns has a partially ridiculous setting (the furry aliens ...), but it could

give a lot of ideas about how a percentile system can be used to solve the

typical problems of a science fiction game, for example the starship construc-

tion. Not all ideas used in Other Suns are good ones, but they would make for

a better start than Future World.

Star Frontiers is an excellent example of a space opera roleplaying game that

was interesting enough to survive even the death of its publishing company

for a very long time. It still has its devoted fan community, the Star Frontiers-

man magazine does still publish new material, and so on - the authors of this

game must have done something right, so I would take a very close look at

how they built their space opera.

[GianniVacca]

Sci-Fi needs Starships. It's a no-brainer.

Well, my favourite sci-fi settings are: Blade Runner, the Terminator films, the Alien films, Cowboy Bebop (Cowboy Bebop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and Iria (Iria: Zeiram the Animation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Hardly any starships in those.

[rust]

...the Alien films ... Hardly any starships in those.

We must have seen different versions. :shocked:

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Well, my favourite sci-fi settings are: [...] Cowboy Bebop [...] Hardly any starships in those.

Now I know you're pulling our collective legs ...

[SDLeary]

Well, my favourite sci-fi settings are: Blade Runner, the Terminator films, the Alien films, Cowboy Bebop (Cowboy Bebop - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia), and Iria (Iria: Zeiram the Animation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia). Hardly any starships in those.

Yes, but in Blade Runner, they are implied... at least ships that allow transport to the Belt. The Alien films don't show many, but two are pretty important in the first two flicks (Nostromo and Sulaco).

SDLeary

[rust]

The Alien films don't show many, but two are pretty important in the first two flicks (Nostromo and Sulaco).

I would even say that Alien I shows almost nothing but the Nostromo, as the

interior of a starship still is a starship.

[Thalaba]

I'm not really familiar with Future World, but the names Quertzl and Sauriki sound...kinda cheesy. I'm slowly coming to the conclusion that I'm not representative of the RPG community when it comes to taste in games, but I would definitly be put off the book if I read those names on the back cover. I'm one of those people that craves originality in a setting. I don't want people to copy the work of some author - I want new and interesting settings. I suppose that's why the most cherished settings in my collection are Glorantha, Jorune, Artesia's Known World, Mechanical Dream, and Blue Planet.

Personally, I don't care if the setting has starships as long as it can evoke that sense of wonder that I crave.

[dragonewt]

... and Iria ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iria]Iria: Zeiram the Animation - Wikipedia

One world I am working on shares a certain feel with that in Iria. Although mine is a little more mythic and ancient in feel, but it is certainly sci-fi.

[LivingTriskele]

Good points. The hardback/colour art thing is probably beyond Chaosium's capabilities, sadly - but I faced the truth of what you say when I was in my FLGS the other day. But is there no-one around here who could work up a 'modern' point-buy system for BRP?

I've started tinkering with one but it's a ton of work and I have many projects on the burners...

[GianniVacca]

Now I know you're pulling our collective legs ...

What I meant was that these settings were not centred on FTL travel, spaceports, navigation skills, or stuff like that.

G.

[Atgxtg]

Good points. The hardback/colour art thing is probably beyond Chaosium's capabilities, sadly - but I faced the truth of what you say when I was in my FLGS the other day. But is there no-one around here who could work up a 'modern' point-buy system for BRP?

I don't know how 'modern' a point-buy system is, since it goes back almost as far as RQ, but doing one up wouldn't be that difficult. Steve Perrin pretty much did so back with Superworld, his attempt at Champions. Player could spend Hero Points to buy up stats, skills and powers.

To turn that into a full "point-buy" method we could just set all the stats to racial average, and then give players a number of points to buy things with. Since the Superpower section is included in BRP, we already have most of what we would need to do that.

The next bit would be to work out what an "Average" starting character would total up to in Hero Points-using the assigned method for stats and converting starting skill points into Hero Points.

[RosenMcStern]

Characteristic point within racial average: 5 points

Characteristic point above racial average: 10 points

Professional skill point within 75%: 1 point

Professional skill point above 75%: 2 points

Free skill point: 2 points

Super power: 10 points per power point (racial abilities must be "bought")

Magic spell: bought as skill

Sorcery spell: 10 pts. per level

Psionic power: bought as skill

Should be enough. An average character is about 800 points.

[frogspawner]

Steve Perrin pretty much did so back with Superworld, his attempt at Champions. Player could spend Hero Points to buy up stats, skills and powers.

To turn that into a full "point-buy" method we could just...

I've started tinkering with one but it's a ton of work and I have many projects on the burners...

Well, I didn't think it should be very hard but I've never looked that closely at such things (happy with randomness!), so I expect I'm being overly simplistic.

But if you guys (and anyone else who cared to help) could get together on it... maybe LivingTriskele would be willing to put what he's got in the downloads, and go from there...?

PS: Or even use Rosen's !

Edited December 18, 2009 by frogspawner
PS

[Nightshade]

Speaking purely personally, it would have to be Chaosium - the setting makes reference to some elements from the original Future*World (albeit IIRC only the Quertzl and Sauriki are in O19) and I always conceived of it as playing in / with "their" setting. I have other SF ideas

Out of curiosity, did you do updated versions of their specs for that? The ones in Future*World aren't quite compatible with modern BRP (mostly because they were done with the assumption of the old 3D6 straight rolls for Int and Size for humans). How about the tech assumptions?

(I'm interested because I've got a campaign idea based on Future*World called Doorways in the Sky (yes, its more or less a Heinlein reference) that I'd like to do at some point and if you've saved me some of the conversion work...)

[Nightshade]

as how thoroughly it is supported. Different rule sets tend to influence different styles of play. Nice packaging/artwork

This is the key to why rules matter, really; unless the GM is only using the most vague outline of the rules, they'll influence how the game tends to play out; the same setting using BRP, Hero or True20 will play out quite differently among the three.

[Nightshade]

So, any of you SF-fans think the WorldsOfWonder FutureWorld, with added Outpost 19, would be good to develop into a Flagship BRP setting?

Having now read the WoW/FW stuff I have my own opinion, but I'm not into SF, so what do I know?

(BTW, "the Quertzl and Sauriki are in O19", Nick? How? Intriguing...)

Well, the one thing it does as a virtue could also be a flaw; Future*World was done the way it was in part specifically to avoid the issue of ships and ship combat. Its a nice simplifying assumption, but it also takes out an element some people like.

[Mister Apocalypse]

Characteristic point within racial average: 5 points

Characteristic point above racial average: 10 points

Professional skill point within 75%: 1 point

Professional skill point above 75%: 2 points

Free skill point: 2 points

Super power: 10 points per power point (racial abilities must be "bought")

Magic spell: bought as skill

Sorcery spell: 10 pts. per level

Psionic power: bought as skill

Should be enough. An average character is about 800 points.

Wow! That was fast.

[LivingTriskele]

The idea is definitely there with the superpowers component, though I'm inclined to rebuild from the ground up.

I've started (creating a point-buy system), using GURPS 4th Edition (Advantages/Disadvantages) as a model. The hardest part is just finding the time (I'm looking at 200 to 300 pages). There is some transcription work as GURPS functions on a 3d6 bell curve and BRP is a straight percentage. My idea has been to leave the generation of Characteristics as it is, and offer this as an optional modular component, though I imagine it wouldn't be too hard to branch of into all aspects of character creation.

At this point, my biggest concern (aside from finding the time) is in regards to legality-- I'm changing the wording but the idea is still taken from another game system. Then again, GURPS was heavily inspired by Champions (as was BRP's superhero component).

[Nightshade]

At this point, my biggest concern (aside from finding the time) is in regards to legality-- I'm changing the wording but the idea is still taken from another game system. Then again, GURPS was heavily inspired by Champions (as was BRP's superhero component).

As the person who invented the predecessor to Hero's Disadvantage system, I'd say there's enough prior art here you can do it in good conscience.

[Mister Apocalypse]

This is the key to why rules matter, really; unless the GM is only using the most vague outline of the rules, they'll influence how the game tends to play out; the same setting using BRP, Hero or True20 will play out quite differently among the three.

Yup. A good example would be running a firefight using D20 Modern. Once the characters hit a certain level, they are not going to drop from a single hit--even from a .50 caliber rifle! Most character have more that 20 hit points and the weapon does 2D10. This leads to tactics such as charging machinegun nests.

Conversely, running the same fight in a different RPG results in a different style, fell and tactics. In something like the James Bond RPG or BRP charging a .50 cal. is usually suicidal.

It's one reason why I would not want to run a Old West campaign using d20. The classic western "showdown" would turn into a comedy, with each shooter having to reload in order to do enough damage to drop the other guy.

[Nightshade]

Yup. A good example would be running a firefight using D20 Modern. Once the characters hit a certain level, they are not going to drop from a single hit--even from a .50 caliber rifle! Most character have more that 20 hit points and the weapon does 2D10. This leads to tactics such as charging machinegun nests.

Conversely, running the same fight in a different RPG results in a different style, fell and tactics. In something like the James Bond RPG or BRP charging a .50 cal. is usually suicidal.

It's one reason why I would not want to run a Old West campaign using d20. The classic western "showdown" would turn into a comedy, with each shooter having to reload in order to do enough damage to drop the other guy.

On the other hand, its quite likely that vanilla BRP would produce a virtually unplayable game in such settings, as the ability to avoid incoming fire is so limited by the book that unless it was a heavily non-combat setting, it'd be hard to get any continuity of PCs.

(Fate points help this a little, but only a little; the combination of difficulty in dodging bullets, lack of useful armor in the setting and lack of healing is probably just impossible to overcome).

[LivingTriskele]

Yup. A good example would be running a firefight using D20 Modern. Once the characters hit a certain level, they are not going to drop from a single hit--even from a .50 caliber rifle! Most character have more that 20 hit points and the weapon does 2D10. This leads to tactics such as charging machinegun nests.

I'm running a Pathfinder game right now in grim dark fantasy setting I've been working on. Everyone has a 'handy haversack'. It's like Walmart had a going-out-of-business sale. Granted, I'm to blame. But creating encounters using Pathfinder/3.5's system of determining Challenge Rating assumes the party has a certain level of magic items in its possession. The mystique of magic is hard to maintain under these circumstances.

[LivingTriskele]

As the person who invented the predecessor to Hero's Disadvantage system, I'd say there's enough prior art here you can do it in good conscience.

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You came up with that? Who is this masked man?

[Mister Apocalypse]

On the other hand, its quite likely that vanilla BRP would produce a virtually unplayable game in such settings, as the ability to avoid incoming fire is so limited by the book that unless it was a heavily non-combat setting, it'd be hard to get any continuity of PCs.

(Fate points help this a little, but only a little; the combination of difficulty in dodging bullets, lack of useful armor in the setting and lack of healing is probably just impossible to overcome).

Possibly. I know I "offed" a lot of PCs in Morrow Project.

My suggestion for adapting BRP to handling something like this would be to swipe Hero Point system from the James Bond RPG. Each Hero Point would allow a character to shift the die result by one level of success (or failure). So a character with a few HPs could use them to avoid the occasional lucky hit.

A very minor modification, as far as tweaking goes, with a very major impact on game play.