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All Hail the Mighty Mongoose!


frogspawner

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From the Systems & Settings sub-forum. Worthy of more prominence, I thought...

(bunny-ears mine)

Oooo - I'm an "ardent purist"! Thanks, chaps! :) ("MRQ2" it remains to me, though, for anti-confusion purposes. But I'll drop the trailing "E", in honour of Loz/Pete's sterling work). And it's like they wrote that preview for me, personally - it's even got "primitives venerating their ancestral frog totem" ! :D

O M G ! :shocked:

It looks like they've cracked it. Sounds as if they've fixed Magic and done some good things with it - but that was expected. They've repackaged the Feats, sorry 'Legendary Abilities', as reasonable rewards for HeroQuesting. They've done some stuff with combat manouevres that they're proud of and could also be good - we shall see.

However, the big one is this: For combat at least, Opposed Rolls are GONE! :thumb:

I've long thought myself a Mongoose-o-phobe, with an unspoken oath to never buy any of their product. But this is "Damascus Road II" ...I'm converted. Exactly when is it coming out, and where's my chequebook?

:innocent:

Edited by frogspawner

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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I suggest some caution.

Loz is now kindly explaining the new parts in further details on the MGP forum, but I doubt he is allowed to post every single detail. Are you sure you have understood how things work from this initial abstract? Wait until you read everything before being "converted". Excess expectation can lead to a big disappointment. Ask Trif about his expectations for MRQ 1.

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Is anyone else having trouble reading this thread? It just looks like gibberish on my screen...:ohwell:

Heck, one lousy split-infinitive and I'm declared incomprehensible! It's not like I'm challenging Atgxtg for his "Most Amusing Typo's" Crown, or anything. (Still not figured out what his name was supposed to be, btw. ;) )

OK, I guess it doesn't make much sense until you've followed that link, downloaded the magazine, and read the preview article. But I recommend doing so.

Are you sure you have understood...?

"Combat does not use Opposed Rolls for resolution, as introduced in the Players’ Guide PDF and reverts to standard rolls for each party in the fight. This removes the ‘Downgrade’ situation which caused a great deal of consternation when introduced! However, neither are there tables for combat resolution. It has been simplified – as an attacker you either hit or miss and as a defender you parry or you don’t. Whether damage penetrates your parry depends on the comparative sizes of the weapons used." - Loz/Pete, Signs & Portents 75

You tell me, but it seems clear. Of course, we could be being deceived - a mongoose is pretty nearly a weasel, after all...

Damn - Frogspawner praising Mongoose - I thought this wasn't supposed to happen until December 2012.

Aiee! Aiee! The stars are Right! Early. :)

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Guarded optimism here as well. If the actual document matches the preview, it looks like a worthy version. I'm not elated by everything I see, but Mongoose's ability to publish add-ons quickly means that I'll check this out.

Maybe I don't understand what opposed rolls in combat are...if they're keeping the attack and parry rolls both, isn't that an opposed roll? Or did I miss a generation on the definitions?

Steve

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Heck, one lousy split-infinitive and I'm declared incomprehensible! It's not like I'm challenging Atgxtg for his "Most Amusing Typo's" Crown, or anything. (Still not figured out what his name was supposed to be, btw. ;) )

OK, I guess it doesn't make much sense until you've followed that link, downloaded the magazine, and read the preview article. But I recommend doing so.

Actually, I was referring both to your sig and to your premature enthusiasm. Imagine, reaching for your chequebook before reading independant reviews and thumbing through a copy. Sheesh. :rolleyes: No wonder there's so much mediocre product* in the industry if people are willing to go out and spend money on just any old thing that sounds vaguely interesting. If we made purchases based more on quality, we'd have higher overall quality in gaming products. (Same applies to movies, BTW - don't get me started on Hollywood).

While the article does make it sould like MRQ2 will be an improvement, I didn't see anything in that article about bringing back strike ranks (the real strike ranks), characteristic rolls, or resistance rolls, so I don't really see any improvement over what I'm currently getting with BRP, for my money.

Doesn't Atgxtg stand for "Axe-to-grind-something-something something"? :confused:

*not suggesting any particular product here.

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Maybe I don't understand what opposed rolls in combat are...if they're keeping the attack and parry rolls both, isn't that an opposed roll?

Nope. Here's the difference...

I roll a critical hit. With ORs, I don't know how good a hit it is until you come back from the loo and roll your parry, because your roll's Degree of Success will be subtracted from mine (e.g. a normal parry 'downgrading' my max-damage crit to a double-damage impale). With 'standard rolls' [oh, Loz/Pete, I love that name, and all the more non-capitalized!], I immediately know what I've done (i.e. max damage by-passing armour); how well you parry it is your business, not mine.

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Nope. Here's the difference...

I roll a critical hit. With ORs, I don't know how good a hit it is until you come back from the loo and roll your parry, because your roll's Degree of Success will be subtracted from mine (e.g. a normal parry 'downgrading' my max-damage crit to a double-damage impale). With 'standard rolls' [oh, Loz/Pete, I love that name, and all the more non-capitalized!], I immediately know what I've done (i.e. max damage by-passing armour); how well you parry it is your business, not mine.

Thanks.

So now parries absorb damage...again. I always liked that approach.

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Actually, I was referring both to your sig and to your premature enthusiasm. Imagine, reaching for your chequebook before reading independant reviews and thumbing through a copy...

:lol: Yeah, I know. You're right - so now I'll have to tear up that cheque already made out to "Evil Empire of Mongoose". :ohwell:

While the article does make it sould like MRQ2 will be an improvement, I didn't see anything in that article about bringing back strike ranks (the real strike ranks), characteristic rolls, or resistance rolls, so I don't really see any improvement over what I'm currently getting with BRP, for my money.
Whereas they did mention 'Strike Ranks' (the fake ones: rolled initiative, is it?). My sympathies, but that's not an issue for me. However, they also actually mentioned the toolkit principle - so at least patching-in real SRs would be 'legal'...

Doesn't Atgxtg stand for "Axe-to-grind-something-something something"?
Aha! You are probably right. I'd just presumed it was a tyop... ;)

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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I roll a critical hit. With ORs, I don't know how good a hit it is until you come back from the loo and roll your parry, because your roll's Degree of Success will be subtracted from mine (e.g. a normal parry 'downgrading' my max-damage crit to a double-damage impale). With 'standard rolls' [oh, Loz/Pete, I love that name, and all the more non-capitalized!], I immediately know what I've done (i.e. max damage by-passing armour); how well you parry it is your business, not mine.

Alas, this is what you wanted to hear or understand. But this is not how it works. The truth lies in the middle between what you hope and what you loathe, and I am afraid it is too complex to explain thoroughly in a single paragraph. Maybe Loz and Pete want to explain this in more detail, but my advice is that you just wait until you can read all the rules before being enthusiastic or disappointed.

Edited by RosenMcStern

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This is sound, cautionary advise. However, the one thing I will say that is to the advantage of MRQ2, beyond a few years of extra marketing feedback, is that the current market is quite different to what it was 3-4 years ago.

D&D4.0 and WFRP3.0 are palpably different games to what they used to be, and RuneQuest remains one of the few recognizable 'classic' brands that actually adhere to something like a simple, traditional fantasy RPG game system.

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Heck, one lousy split-infinitive and I'm declared incomprehensible! It's not like I'm challenging Atgxtg for his "Most Amusing Typo's" Crown, or anything. (Still not figured out what his name was supposed to be, btw. ;) )

I don't hold the crown. That belongs to someone I used to game with who, when making his own character sheets, wrote down Marital Arts instead of Martial Arts. :lol:

How I regret that I was not the first to proofread that character sheet. :D

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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I don't hold the crown. That belongs to someone I used to game with who, when making his own character sheets, wrote down Marital Arts instead of Martial Arts. :lol:

How I regret that I was not the first to proofread that character sheet. :D

Or the typo of "% in Lair" in the original books that morphed into "% Liar" in all Dave Hargrave's game supplements.

Bathalians, the newest UberVillians!

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Alas, this is what you wanted to hear or understand. But this is not how it works...

Well, that was just my illustration of the principles of Opposed versus 'standard' rolling. The details were BRP-style, which I appreciate will be different in MRQ (e.g. it hasn't got specials/impales, has it?).

But if the rolls are independent, so you immediately know your hit's (potential) effect before the other guy rolls, I shall be happy.

Is it like that, d'y'know?

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Marital Arts instead of Martial Arts. :lol:

Ah, the Classic! Yours are much more original - I look forward to your posts. If I've now spoilt that by mentioning it, then that is my deep regret. Sorry. :o Please, type on fearlessly!

PS: Back in the Old Days, a mate of mine would refer to stuff like his "+1 Halibut" and "Vaporal Sword". Entirely unintentional, and endearing. Immensely clever guy, his brain just didn't spare the time to bother much with trivial stuff like words. :)

Edited by frogspawner
PS

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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Ah, the Classic! Yours are much more original - I look forward to your posts. If I've now spoilt that by mentioning it, then that is my deep regret. Sorry. :o Please, type on fearlessly!

In my defense, I'd like to mention that constantly switching keyboards from US layout to Japanese layout might be partially responsible for some of my typos. But only some.

But I glad that my errors bring you so much happiness.

Edited by Atgxtg

Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.

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In my defense, I'd like to mention that constantly switching keyboards from US layout to Japanese layout might be partially responsible for some of my typos.

Thanks! Now I know what to say to my boss next time he mentions my spelling - these Chinese keys are all over the place, and there's no umlaut! :P

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Well caution is always a good idea and buying or not buying on the strength of one rule seems rather extreme.

Personally, if opposed roll combat has gone I'll be disappointed. Though I didn't like MRQ1.5's version of it, I use opposed roll combat in my version of MRQ and am loathe to turn back the clock.

I'll also be really surprised if opposed rolls are gone for good or the resistance table is back or characteristic rolls are back. For me the selling point of the MRQ toolkit, as it were, was the attempt to strip back the system into something streamlined. Though MRQ1 kept failing to implement its ideas well, the philosophy behind it was a good one. So hopefully, MRQ2 will stick with the philosophy but implement it properly.

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But if the rolls are independent, so you immediately know your hit's (potential) effect before the other guy rolls, I shall be happy.

Is it like that, d'y'know?

If you score a degree of success over your opponent (you successfully attack, he fails to parry, for example), you gain a Combat Manoeuvre.

I think Loz or Pete should state which details they want / are allowed to reveal and post clear examples of how it works, as in the sentence above. About the rest, it is better to avoid brainstorming - one could be sorely wrong in interpreting sentences along the lines of his own thought.

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... it is better to avoid brainstorming - one could be sorely wrong in interpreting sentences along the lines of his own thought.

I can live with that - but with the assumption these 'Combat Manoeuvres' are extras, not alterations to the hit just scored. So, we shall see...

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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I'm not going to elaborate too much on the detail of combat for obvious reasons, but let me clarify a few things.

First, resolving attack/parry does not use the opposed roll system of roll-under-but-higher. Its a straight forward roll under to succeed. Your opponent can do the same to parry. If you both succeed, there's no advantage (but damage/reducing it through parrying then happens). If you both fail, nothing happens. If one of you succeeds whilst the other fails, it confers a level of advantage which translates into a combat manoeuvre. The combat manoeuvres are varied, some can only be used by certain weapon types and some manoeuvres can only be used if a particular degree of success is achieved.

There are some further subtleties, but its not really much more complicated than that.

I can't and won't elaborate further; you'll just have to wait for the rules to come out! :innocent:

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I can't and won't elaborate further; you'll just have to wait for the rules to come out! :innocent:

OK, fair enough, you might not know if you can do an extra combat manoeuvre until the other guy's rolled his parry, but...

Can you calculate your damage before he comes back from the loo? Or would that be telling too much? ;)

Edited by frogspawner

Britain has been infiltrated by soviet agents to the highest levels. They control the BBC, the main political party leaderships, NHS & local council executives, much of the police, most newspapers and the utility companies. Of course the EU is theirs, through-and-through. And they are among us - a pervasive evil, like Stasi.

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