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Erol of Backford

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Not canonical, but the small chivalrous order of St. Ehilm that I wrote into Jansholm might be "it".

The Balazar citadel architecture for their Yelmalio temples is actually the sign of a fairly prosperous or at least powerful expression of Yelmalio presence. The Trilus one failed to survive the end of that lineage of Balazar's descendants by much, the Elkoi one is overshadowed by the Lunar presence, and in Dykene it loses to the exotic giant vrok hawk roosts in memorability.

Mercenary halls may have a pompous shrine with a gilt cupola, and "tribal" temples to all associates of Ernalda and Orlanth may have structures above the Lightfore altars symbolizing the sun dome in the sky, too.

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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12 hours ago, Joerg said:

Not canonical, but the small chivalrous order of St. Ehilm that I wrote into Jansholm might be "it".

01. On the cover of TT12 where were they riding to and what year was it supposed to be roughly. I imagine blue, gold, white but Ehilm may not use red or have transitioned out of it due to the move to Yelmalio or might that not have reached into Central Heortland ~ Backford? (not canonical)

02. Also where would shrines to the Ascended Masters be? "Ascended Masters venerated by the Hrestoli include Xemela, Hrestol, Tomaris, Gerlant, Arkat, Talor, Halwal, Tryensaval, Snodal, and Siglat." GtGp51. I assume they would be in the cathedral in Mt. Passant but where else might they be, surely each town/hamlet would have a patron no?

03. Who knows if there are any maps of Jansholm? I did a quick search and didn't see one? If anyone developed one I'd love to see it?

Mr. Baumgartner, half the reason for developing the Backford Campaign was that beloved TT12 article... back in the early 90's. Glad for the renascence Mr. Richard, fond memories.

Thanks again all!

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I had another question...

04. If a bear-walker were to try to ride a horse in human form would the horse bolt sensing the "human" was actually a predator or would a trained warhorse be ok with it, just curious if that came up what everyone's thoughts are on it, assuming the PC bear-walker didn't just turn into bear form and run parallel to the party as a scout per say?

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5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

04. If a bear-walker were to try to ride a horse in human form would the horse bolt sensing the "human" was actually a predator or would a trained warhorse be ok with it, just curious if that came up what everyone's thoughts are on it, assuming the PC bear-walker didn't just turn into bear form and run parallel to the party as a scout per say?

The horse would probably be fine, in my games.

Sure, the human might smell funny, but all humans smell funny anyway.

 

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Simon Phipp - Caldmore Chameleon - Wallowing in my elitism since 1982. Many Systems, One Family. Just a fanboy. 

www.soltakss.com/index.html

Jonstown Compendium author. Find my contributions here

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Still looking for Jansholm but... Some old timeline Heortland stuff from Joerg (non canonical I assume from 1998)

Joerg, do you happen to have the "Stormgull Rock scenario" in English!?

Take my chosen region in Heortland. Campaign date 1617, recent events:

1615 Lunar spies (low-level heroquesters) map the mythic landscape of the Holy Country for Jar-eel

1615/1616 The cousin of the king of Heortland is killed in a parody of a duel. The duelist escapes, a bounty is offered for his head.

1616 Pharaonic army defeated in Ditaliland, many Hendriki knights die there, including the uncle and last direct relative of the King of Heortland.

1616 Wolf Pirates raid Mirrorsea Bay in strength, sink Pharaonic fleet

1616 Pharaoh disappears (now, how much information can this module give about this?)

1616/1617 King of Heortland attempts to bring back the Pharaoh (or at least his sovereignty) with a fleshed-up Short LBQ during Sacred Season, is wounded and possessed by a crimson demon manifesting like a poisoned wound (and madness).

1617 King of Heortland dies 8 weeks after having impregnated a dozen girls of noble birth in a frenzy during the Vorian fires. The pregnancies are well recognized by then, and the crown council keeps regency for the firstborn of the king. Alas, one by one all thes pregnancies abort.

1617 Civil war is about to break out after the last "continued pregnancy" is revealed to be a sham. Several contenders muster their support and forces. In northern Heortland Laird Korlaman of the Orshanti, Warden of the Footprint Marches, emerges as the sole candidate after the Duke of Jansholm repeated his refusal to contend. Korlaman has the support of Brian of the Volsaxi, most of the warriors guarding the Footprint, and numerous local nobles. He also has distant blood ties to the Hendriki royal family (not a requirement but a bonus when succeeding the Hendriki line of kings, who are thought to be more willing to support a descendant than a stranger).

In the capital Durengard, the crown council (the chancellor and other members of the king's ring of councillors, including mercenary captain Richard the Tigerhearted) decide not to support any claimant until the land is united. The Seshnegi knights of Richard, recently reinforced by other companies leaving Ralios in the course of the Seshnegi kingdom's expansion into Dangim and the end of the Chaos Monk campaign, serve as the military arm of the council, regarded as impartial in the native conflict.

1617 Volsaxi supporters of Korlaman perceive an insult in the words of the Sehsnegi embassy (including Mularik Ironeye, a lieutenant of Richard), and honour-bind Korlaman to strike prematurely against the Seshnegi, putting forth his claim for the capital. The Seshnegi chivalry meets Korlaman's forces at a ford across the Syphon River east of Backford (which had been closed to either force), and for a day the battle wages without any decision. Just before nightfall a relief force from Durengard led by Richard the Tigerhearted joins the fray and pushes back Korlaman's bridgehead across the river. After a day or two of occasional skirmishes across the river, Korlaman has to acknowledge that he will not be able to reach Durengard, and steps back from his claim. After this, the civil war continues in southern Heortland, but the north is out of the picture.

1617 After only two native contenders are left, Richard the Tigerhearted puts forth his own claim for the throne, based on achievements as defender of the throne. The two native forces join up against him and are defeated in a field battle. Richard is crowned king of the Hendriki by his own bishop, Vancelain du Tumerine of the see of Nochet. He installs his lieutenants as sheriffs of the ducal seats of Jansholm and Mt. Passant to quell the residual unrest.

1617 Richard proclaims his kingdom to be Malkonwal, the new holy kingdom of Malkionism. Orlanthi and many Aeolians protest.

1618 Mularik Ironeye, Sheriff of Jansholm, starts a strong campaign of iconoclasm against Orlanth symbolry in the Aeolian temples, transforming them into austere white Rokari temples as propagated by the White Wyzards movement. The valuable ornaments disappear into the bishop's and the sheriff's coffers. Pagan worship of Orlanth is prohibited in the shared temples. Protesting nobles are tried for treason. This way, Mularik succeeds Duke Karlman of Jansholm. Korlaman of the Orshanti takes refuge first at estates of Brian of the Volsaxi (just outside the Kingdom of Malkonwal), but after a military strike of Mularik against the Volsaxi he hides in the Troll Woods with a band of followers outlawed with him (and no longbows in Glorantha, <sob>).

1619 The Lunar Empire conquers the Volsaxi lands, besieges Whitewall, and assaults the city of Karse. No refugees from Volsaxi lands filter into Heortland because of the religious suppression of the Orlanthi faith.

1619 Dark Season: the annual outbreak of scorpionman brood is a lot worse for neglect of this pest during the last two years and destroys several steads and villages before checked by local levies. The ducal troops of Jansholm were held back to deal with rebellious tax-payers.

1620 Earth Season: The Lunar Empire invades the Kingdom of Malkonwal. King Richard summons whatever support he can get from his subjects and meets Fazzur in an open battle. He is betrayed by Mularik Ironeye, who captures and sells his king and former captain for a considerable sum plus all of his plunder from Jansholm. Mularik sets sail from the Lunar-controlled port of Karse for the Three-Step Isles with a small flottilla manned with his followers and joins the Wolf Pirates.

1620 The Talars and Horali of God Forgot invade southern Heortland and capture Mt. Passant, as agreed upon in a secret treaty with the Lunars who lay claim to Refuge and the access to Prax from the south, though. The Marcher Barons submit to Lunar supremacy, faced with being cut from essential support.

1620 The Lunar administration installed by Fazzur re-opens the temples for worship of Barntar and Ernalda, and is greeted as liberators. Recently landed Seshnegi knights are forced from their estates. Many return to their former lives as mercenaries, whereas others linger in the land hoping to regain their estates, meanwhile robbing the native farmers.

1621 Mostly minor domestic troubles, the Lunar officials taken from Fazzur's Tarshites offer little troubles for the natives.

1621 Fall of Whitewall, the defenders disappear.

1621 Stormgull Rock scenario (a "forgotten holy spot" crawl I published a few years ago in German language).

1621/1622 Sacred Season: Fazzur is relieved from his office as Gouvernor-General, succeeded by the Dara Happan Tatius the Bright. Many of Fazzur's officers take their leave and accompany him to his lands in Tarsh rather than take second rank to Tatius' Dara Happan preteges placed over them. the new Dara Happan administration is effective in offending Orlanthi sensitivities, and the climate of goodwill towards the Lunar liberators soon fades away. Brian of the Volsaxi emerges among the Hendriki, gathering support.

1622 Hendriki rebellion crushed with the help of the Scorpionman Queendom of Jab released by Tatius' magicians from the Footprint. Brian and his followers leave Heortland rather than endanger their supporters in a guerilla warfare and join forces with the anti-Lunar faction in Esrolia.

1622 Archbishop Gwydion and a mix of Aeolian and converted Seshnegi followers liberate Mt. Passant from the God Forgot occupation. The Lunars don't push after them, being occupied in eastern Sartar. The Tarshite prince-governor in Refuge collects what Lunar troops are left to him, and declares his city an independent province of Tarsh.

1623 The Hendriki followers of Brian defeat the Grazer mercenary army in Esrolia, which is replaced by Provincial forces and more Grazers mercenaries.

1623 The Queendom of Jab continues to lay waste to the foothill clans along the Storm Mountains; local forces are led by rebels sought by the Lunars and suffer from lack of equipment and provisions. The Lunar forces are mostly withdrawn from the countryside and offer no aid, except for single (mostly Tarshite) garrison commanders (some of which even accept the rebels as their equals for the duration of the conflict).

1624 The anti-Lunar forces in Esrolia led by Brian defeat the Lunar and Grazer occupation forces at Pennel Ford. Brian takes his followers and Argrath the Wolf Pirate over to Heortland, lands at Milran and defeats the local Lunar forces with the help of Argrath's firespear warriors (Dragontooth Runners?). Argrath continues through the Border Marches and Prax to Corflu.

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"One interesting NPC I came up with is Findilas Beastwise, a Lhankor Mhy sage from Backford specialized on Godtime biology, and a rabid collector of fossilized fauna from the Stonewood. The PCs had gone astray in the Stonewood after a Krarshtkid assault felling several stone trees. After a few hungry days they encountered Findilas and his escort of hired Storm Bull berserks (from the minor temple at the southern end of the mouth of the Print) and permanent Humakti guards." Joerg Thu Mar 20, 1997.

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3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Still looking for Jansholm but... Some old timeline Heortland stuff from Joerg (non canonical I assume from 1998)

Joerg, do you happen to have the "Stormgull Rock scenario" in English!?

Take my chosen region in Heortland. Campaign date 1617, recent events:

1615 Lunar spies (low-level heroquesters) map the mythic landscape of the Holy Country for Jar-eel

1615/1616 The cousin of the king of Heortland is killed in a parody of a duel. The duelist escapes, a bounty is offered for his head.

1616 Pharaonic army defeated in Ditaliland, many Hendriki knights die there, including the uncle and last direct relative of the King of Heortland.

1616 Wolf Pirates raid Mirrorsea Bay in strength, sink Pharaonic fleet

1616 Pharaoh disappears (now, how much information can this module give about this?)

1616/1617 King of Heortland attempts to bring back the Pharaoh (or at least his sovereignty) with a fleshed-up Short LBQ during Sacred Season, is wounded and possessed by a crimson demon manifesting like a poisoned wound (and madness).

1617 King of Heortland dies 8 weeks after having impregnated a dozen girls of noble birth in a frenzy during the Vorian fires. The pregnancies are well recognized by then, and the crown council keeps regency for the firstborn of the king. Alas, one by one all thes pregnancies abort.

1617 Civil war is about to break out after the last "continued pregnancy" is revealed to be a sham. Several contenders muster their support and forces. In northern Heortland Laird Korlaman of the Orshanti, Warden of the Footprint Marches, emerges as the sole candidate after the Duke of Jansholm repeated his refusal to contend. Korlaman has the support of Brian of the Volsaxi, most of the warriors guarding the Footprint, and numerous local nobles. He also has distant blood ties to the Hendriki royal family (not a requirement but a bonus when succeeding the Hendriki line of kings, who are thought to be more willing to support a descendant than a stranger).

In the capital Durengard, the crown council (the chancellor and other members of the king's ring of councillors, including mercenary captain Richard the Tigerhearted) decide not to support any claimant until the land is united. The Seshnegi knights of Richard, recently reinforced by other companies leaving Ralios in the course of the Seshnegi kingdom's expansion into Dangim and the end of the Chaos Monk campaign, serve as the military arm of the council, regarded as impartial in the native conflict.

1617 Volsaxi supporters of Korlaman perceive an insult in the words of the Sehsnegi embassy (including Mularik Ironeye, a lieutenant of Richard), and honour-bind Korlaman to strike prematurely against the Seshnegi, putting forth his claim for the capital. The Seshnegi chivalry meets Korlaman's forces at a ford across the Syphon River east of Backford (which had been closed to either force), and for a day the battle wages without any decision. Just before nightfall a relief force from Durengard led by Richard the Tigerhearted joins the fray and pushes back Korlaman's bridgehead across the river. After a day or two of occasional skirmishes across the river, Korlaman has to acknowledge that he will not be able to reach Durengard, and steps back from his claim. After this, the civil war continues in southern Heortland, but the north is out of the picture.

1617 After only two native contenders are left, Richard the Tigerhearted puts forth his own claim for the throne, based on achievements as defender of the throne. The two native forces join up against him and are defeated in a field battle. Richard is crowned king of the Hendriki by his own bishop, Vancelain du Tumerine of the see of Nochet. He installs his lieutenants as sheriffs of the ducal seats of Jansholm and Mt. Passant to quell the residual unrest.

1617 Richard proclaims his kingdom to be Malkonwal, the new holy kingdom of Malkionism. Orlanthi and many Aeolians protest.

1618 Mularik Ironeye, Sheriff of Jansholm, starts a strong campaign of iconoclasm against Orlanth symbolry in the Aeolian temples, transforming them into austere white Rokari temples as propagated by the White Wyzards movement. The valuable ornaments disappear into the bishop's and the sheriff's coffers. Pagan worship of Orlanth is prohibited in the shared temples. Protesting nobles are tried for treason. This way, Mularik succeeds Duke Karlman of Jansholm. Korlaman of the Orshanti takes refuge first at estates of Brian of the Volsaxi (just outside the Kingdom of Malkonwal), but after a military strike of Mularik against the Volsaxi he hides in the Troll Woods with a band of followers outlawed with him (and no longbows in Glorantha, <sob>).

1619 The Lunar Empire conquers the Volsaxi lands, besieges Whitewall, and assaults the city of Karse. No refugees from Volsaxi lands filter into Heortland because of the religious suppression of the Orlanthi faith.

1619 Dark Season: the annual outbreak of scorpionman brood is a lot worse for neglect of this pest during the last two years and destroys several steads and villages before checked by local levies. The ducal troops of Jansholm were held back to deal with rebellious tax-payers.

1620 Earth Season: The Lunar Empire invades the Kingdom of Malkonwal. King Richard summons whatever support he can get from his subjects and meets Fazzur in an open battle. He is betrayed by Mularik Ironeye, who captures and sells his king and former captain for a considerable sum plus all of his plunder from Jansholm. Mularik sets sail from the Lunar-controlled port of Karse for the Three-Step Isles with a small flottilla manned with his followers and joins the Wolf Pirates.

1620 The Talars and Horali of God Forgot invade southern Heortland and capture Mt. Passant, as agreed upon in a secret treaty with the Lunars who lay claim to Refuge and the access to Prax from the south, though. The Marcher Barons submit to Lunar supremacy, faced with being cut from essential support.

1620 The Lunar administration installed by Fazzur re-opens the temples for worship of Barntar and Ernalda, and is greeted as liberators. Recently landed Seshnegi knights are forced from their estates. Many return to their former lives as mercenaries, whereas others linger in the land hoping to regain their estates, meanwhile robbing the native farmers.

1621 Mostly minor domestic troubles, the Lunar officials taken from Fazzur's Tarshites offer little troubles for the natives.

1621 Fall of Whitewall, the defenders disappear.

1621 Stormgull Rock scenario (a "forgotten holy spot" crawl I published a few years ago in German language).

1621/1622 Sacred Season: Fazzur is relieved from his office as Gouvernor-General, succeeded by the Dara Happan Tatius the Bright. Many of Fazzur's officers take their leave and accompany him to his lands in Tarsh rather than take second rank to Tatius' Dara Happan preteges placed over them. the new Dara Happan administration is effective in offending Orlanthi sensitivities, and the climate of goodwill towards the Lunar liberators soon fades away. Brian of the Volsaxi emerges among the Hendriki, gathering support.

1622 Hendriki rebellion crushed with the help of the Scorpionman Queendom of Jab released by Tatius' magicians from the Footprint. Brian and his followers leave Heortland rather than endanger their supporters in a guerilla warfare and join forces with the anti-Lunar faction in Esrolia.

1622 Archbishop Gwydion and a mix of Aeolian and converted Seshnegi followers liberate Mt. Passant from the God Forgot occupation. The Lunars don't push after them, being occupied in eastern Sartar. The Tarshite prince-governor in Refuge collects what Lunar troops are left to him, and declares his city an independent province of Tarsh.

1623 The Hendriki followers of Brian defeat the Grazer mercenary army in Esrolia, which is replaced by Provincial forces and more Grazers mercenaries.

1623 The Queendom of Jab continues to lay waste to the foothill clans along the Storm Mountains; local forces are led by rebels sought by the Lunars and suffer from lack of equipment and provisions. The Lunar forces are mostly withdrawn from the countryside and offer no aid, except for single (mostly Tarshite) garrison commanders (some of which even accept the rebels as their equals for the duration of the conflict).

1624 The anti-Lunar forces in Esrolia led by Brian defeat the Lunar and Grazer occupation forces at Pennel Ford. Brian takes his followers and Argrath the Wolf Pirate over to Heortland, lands at Milran and defeats the local Lunar forces with the help of Argrath's firespear warriors (Dragontooth Runners?). Argrath continues through the Border Marches and Prax to Corflu.

That is wildly non-canonical. You can go with however you want in your Glorantha of course, but it does mean that you will likely have a lot of work in front of you if you want to use any of the material coming down the pike that is set in the Holy Country.

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5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

but... Some old timeline Heortland stuff from Joerg (non canonical I assume from 1998)

As Jeff noted, definitely into the YGWV here.  Your best sources at this point will be whatever you draw out of the old fanzines and your own imagination.

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As we have many voids to fill starting from 1600 and some of the Joerg stuff will fit nicely, not canonical but interesting and appropriate for this campaign. 

I'd love to use information available but a good bit just doesn't seem to be availabel, not yet.

The GtG does call out "Ascended Masters venerated by the Hrestoli include Xemela, Hrestol, Tomaris, Gerlant, Arkat, Talor, Halwal, Tryensaval, Snodal, and Siglat." GtGp51. I so I assume they would be like saints and would have shrines at the least in the cathedral in Mt. Passant but where else might they be? Surely each town/hamlet would have a/some patrons on a lessor scale compared to Orlanth, no? I cannot let go of Archbishop Gwydion as he is a key NPC for us.

I'll adapt the Holy Country material as it comes and will welcome it with open arms!

I'd still like to see any work on Jansholm...

Thanks once again!

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8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Still looking for Jansholm but... Some old timeline Heortland stuff from Joerg (non canonical I assume from 1998)

Basically what I could find in the sources available at the time, canonical as well as non-canonical like How the West Was One, and using every little shred of informaton.

Possibly a YGWV romp, but too many later releases of canon to be useful today,  I'm afraid.

 

8 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Joerg, do you happen to have the "Stormgull Rock scenario" in English!?

Not yet. When I do, I might put in on Jonstown Compendium, but it is quite old-school RQ3 as it stands.

Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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5 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

The GtG does call out "Ascended Masters venerated by the Hrestoli include Xemela, Hrestol, Tomaris, Gerlant, Arkat, Talor, Halwal, Tryensaval, Snodal, and Siglat." GtGp51. I so I assume they would be like saints and would have shrines at the least in the cathedral in Mt. Passant but where else might they be? Surely each town/hamlet would have a/some patrons on a lessor scale compared to Orlanth, no?

They will not be present in the Aeolian school.  An important aspect of Aeolianism is that while it worships the Invisible God, the other gods are seen as emanations of the Invisible God as revealed by the prophets Malkion and Aeol.  Which means... Orlanth, Ernalda, and the Lightbringers are among the greater emanations of the Invisible God, and the commoners worship the lesser emanations (i.e. Barntar, the Grain Goddess, the Lowfires, etc.) as well as the Invisible God.  This is noted in RQG p.389.  

It is those deities who will have alcoves or the like in the shrines to the Invisible God and serve as local "patrons", if you will.

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Posted (edited)

I'd still like to see any work on Jansholm...

Would the Lhankor Mhy temple in Jansholm have a wing or floor of a wing for strength, con and dex training or is that only something made up for a zine years back?

Would any wall at Jansholm be cyclopean or other? What would any wall parapet be like in elevation?

When was Jansholm founded?

I see starting the town as a river crossing and trade road intersection but could there have been a Lhankor Mhy sage who was interested in say urban planning (a little)? Was Jansholm any different than the typical Sartar Bronze Age town of was it possibly set up on a slightly deteriorated grid like some far Eastern early city plans where everyone wants to move to the east side of town?

Could an Issaries Priest have discussed an overall town plan early on with the Lhankor Mhy and positioned things orderly in lieu of the typical hodge-podge arrangement of cities set up at earlier Bronze-Age times? 

Are any other cities in the Holy Country possibly set on any sort of grid as I've not seen one yet that has been?

On the main Heortland map posted by Mr. Richard, Janshlom is set on the north side of the Solthi River and appears that the town is a bit set back from the river? How wide is the river here, does it flood seasonally?

As it appears to be on a rather flat river valley area would there not be large expanses of farm land surrounding on both sides of the river or am I not seeing this correctly?

Possibly Sora Goodseller's parents could be defined? Maybe a grandmother of hers runs the Inn there in 1600?

Assuming the city was set at the location for ease of a ferry crossing or a bridge, what is there? What about a wharf or dock? do any river craft simply pull up on the river bank?

Would it be similar to the cityscape depicted in Mark Smylie's wonderful rendering of Nochet (for an upcoming Jonstown Compendium) on a much smaller scale?

image.png.df8fb5df93a2575482b7f9e451422894.png

Do any ships get built there and if so are there good sources for timber or have they all been cleared for farming as the lands surrounding Jansholm look fairly flat compared to the other cities to the south. I assume Smithstone would be similar as to topography though I have not looked into what has been posted on Smithstone yet?

(I realized I am a very needy Rune Quest addict...)

Thanks once again to everyone!

Edited by Erol of Backford
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2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Would it be similar to the cityscape depicted in Mark Smylie's wonderful rendering of Nochet (for an upcoming Jonstown Compendium) on a much smaller scale?

No. Nochet is an ancient port metropolis; Jansholm is a large city, but not accessible by sea-going ships as I understand it. Sklar, near the mouth of the Solthi River is a shipbuilding site.

In that picture you see what are probably the largest temples to Ernalda and to Issaries anywhere, and the same is probably true of the temple of Dormal. All three probably have near unique architecture. The Solthi isn't navigable as far upriver as Jansholm. 

Edited by M Helsdon
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6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I'd still like to see any work on Jansholm...

Would the Lhankor Mhy temple in Jansholm have a wing or floor of a wing for strength, con and dex training or is that only something made up for a zine years back?

Would any wall at Jansholm be cyclopean or other? What would any wall parapet be like in elevation?

When was Jansholm founded?

I see starting the town as a river crossing and trade road intersection but could there have been a Lhankor Mhy sage who was interested in say urban planning (a little)?

I have done a map of Jansholm, but not at a point of posting yet.

Roughly it is a citadel on a rocky island in the middle of the river overlooking the ford below it.  Bridges connect to both banks.  About half the citadel is the palace grounds.

There is no significant LM temple here.  The great LM temples in Heortland are at Derensev (5km north of Whitewall) and Jelenkev (~10km west of Mount Passant).  There's a reasonable LM temple at Durengard that supported the needs of the Governor.  Those are where clans sent promising youngsters to learn to be scribes (bearing in mind that scribal training is the primary temple purpose).  There was no urban planning here per se.

The Solthi is not navigable to Jansholm.  There's falls and a gorge below it, and no significant trade from the coast.  Jansholm is an intermediate site along the Heortland Road between Smithstone and Backford.

As @M Helsdon noted, there is a fleet-building center at Sklar along the coast, but that was maintained by the God-king and has been raided multiple times by the Wolf Pirates after 1616.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Could an Issaries Priest have discussed an overall town plan early on with the Lhankor Mhy and positioned things orderly in lieu of the typical hodge-podge arrangement of cities set up at earlier Bronze-Age times? 

Unlikely.  The place that has more orderly placement is Mount Passant where the design accords with the social order of the castes, the needs of the wizard-priests, and the instructions of Aeol and the Invisible God.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

How wide is the river here, does it flood seasonally?

All the Heortland rivers flood seasonally - they are sourced from the Storm Mountains.  Storm and Seaseason floods, low in Fireseason and Earthseason, upper reaches iced over in Darkseason.

I have the river at around 200m wide here, but broadening at the ford right below Jansholm.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Assuming the city was set at the location for ease of a ferry crossing or a bridge, what is there? What about a wharf or dock? do any river craft simply pull up on the river bank?

Not built for shipping.  The villagers on the north and south banks keep small fishing boats only.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

are there good sources for timber or have they all been cleared for farming as the lands surrounding Jansholm look fairly flat compared to the other cities to the south

The original forests have Heortland have all been pushed far back towards the Storm Mountains.  The plateau lands are high (~300m at the coast and gradually rise towards the mountains).  It is pasture and farm land with isolated groves and orchards.

6 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I assume Smithstone would be similar as to topography though I have not looked into what has been posted on Smithstone yet?

The Marzeel vale is a lower and longer climb up through Volsaxiland.  While broad, the Marzeel is not fully navigable to Smithstone - that's why the port is at Karse and goods unloaded and carried north by wagon and mule from there.

 

Edited by jajagappa
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Possibly the town/village downstream of Jansholm, connected by the red dashed road would be a small port helping to support Jansholm? Is there a name for it, red arrow in clip below?

image.png.91a1922fe784f4f51fab3aa59a82d82a.png

I'd love to see even a sketch of the work in progress Jaja, as something to go on for Jansholm, so whenever its the right timing for you please share and thank you both for the input.

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1 hour ago, jajagappa said:

There is a fleet-building center at Sklar along the coast, but that was maintained by the God-king and has been raided multiple times by the Wolf Pirates after 1616.

They might offer sacrifices to the Hurlant Wolf to protect them from the pirates?

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4 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Possibly the town/village downstream of Jansholm, connected by the red dashed road would be a small port helping to support Jansholm? Is there a name for it, red arrow in clip below?

I've got it up on the bluffs not down on the water.  Named Solthvale in my work.  Good place for keeping a lookout over the sound.  But the sound is 1000 feet below.

The reason that Karse and Leskos/Durengard are so important in Heortland is that the high plateaus really restrict access from the sea and those are the river vales that allow the best access.  (Remember this is one place where the Storm gods drove back and defeated the Sea gods and that's reflected in the landscape.)

4 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

the Hurlant Wolf to protect them from the pirates?

The Hurlant Wolf is farther south - the "mouth" is the Horting Sound (the Bullflood outflow).  The upper jaw/snout is the Hurlant plateau between the Syphon and the Bullflood.  The lower jaw is between Horting Sound (Bullflood) and Vizel Sount (Minthos).

But... perhaps those farther north can find a means to summon it? 🙂 

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7 hours ago, jajagappa said:

The Hurlant Wolf is farther south - the "mouth" is the Horting Sound (the Bullflood outflow).  The upper jaw/snout is the Hurlant plateau between the Syphon and the Bullflood.  The lower jaw is between Horting Sound (Bullflood) and Vizel Sount (Minthos).

Looking at the coastline, Sklar looks to sit at the hinge of the Hurlant Wolf's cub's jaw.... The headlands between the Solthi and Syphon look to form the jaws of a lesser wolf?

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3 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

Looking at the coastline, Sklar looks to sit at the hinge of the Hurlant Wolf's cub's jaw.... The headlands between the Solthi and Syphon look to form the jaws of a lesser wolf?

Could be! Maybe just needs awakening... and with the Hero Wars at hand.

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So assuming that a lot of silk, spices and maybe some rice comes from the Nochet colony on Melib in Dosakayo and from Lur Nop in Wanzow to Karse, what is going the other way, wine, bronze, what else, wool? Possibly Amazonian slaves are also coming to the Holy Country? Is there high quality ceramics, tea?

What might be dropped at Corflu (after 1611? Wasn't there a port "of sorts" there before then to service Pavis?) and picked up going the other way from the Holy Country?

 

Again this campaign is running from 1600...

 

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3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

So assuming that a lot of silk, spices and maybe some rice comes from the Nochet colony on Melib in Dosakayo and from Lur Nop in Wanzow to Karse, what is going the other way, wine, bronze, what else, wool? Possibly Amazonian slaves are also coming to the Holy Country? Is there high quality ceramics, tea?

Amazon slaves are unlikely. The Holy Country will probably be sending artifacts, cloth, copper, gems, metalworking, parchment, wine, and perhaps things like papyrus.

3 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

What might be dropped at Corflu (after 1611? Wasn't there a port "of sorts" there before then to service Pavis?) and picked up going the other way from the Holy Country?

Corflu was never a major port, and at most ships might go there to refill their water tanks, but they can do that without stopping at such a sorry excuse of a port.

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On 5/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, Erol of Backford said:

So assuming that a lot of silk, spices and maybe some rice comes from the Nochet colony on Melib in Dosakayo and from Lur Nop in Wanzow to Karse, what is going the other way, wine, bronze, what else, wool?

Bronze, small quantities of iron from Seshnela, wine, dyes, Teshnan produce traded for Kethaelan goods. Dosakayo is a trading hub to the east and south and will provide other goods than those produced in the Holy Country to pass onward.

The Quinpolic league probably has little to offer in terms of trade goods for Kralorela other than iron, as many of their luxury products appear to have been introduced to the Tanier Valley and estuary as transplants from Teshnos and Kralorela in the Second Age.

I don't think that anybody exporting silk has ever accepted wool in payment.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Possibly Amazonian slaves are also coming to the Holy Country?

Do you mean males captured by the Marazi? Sure, Esrolia sounds like a market for tamed males. Not in high volume, though.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Is there high quality ceramics, tea?

Tea is grown both in Kralorela and Tanisor. While there may be prestigious cultivation regions, I don't think tea can have the same impact on post-Opening overseas trade that it had on the initial Jrusteli one.

High quality ceramics and glass are always an option, but while e.g. the Dutch exported ceramics in Europe, they don't appear to have carried any as a trade good to Batavia (now Jakarta) or onward. Statuary made from specific minerals might be good, but again Kralorela is too much like Cathay in having achieved cultural perfection to imagine jade imports rather than exports of second-rate ware.

 

On 5/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, Erol of Backford said:

What might be dropped at Corflu (after 1611? Wasn't there a port "of sorts" there before then to service Pavis?) and picked up going the other way from the Holy Country?

Pavis had one major export - artifacts from the Second Age, including Cradle items and copies thereof. Its main imports always were food, but mainly from regional sources, and small amounts of luxuries, most of those via Karse and Sartar prior to 1602, I suppose, and hardly any after the Lunar conquests as the Princes of Sartar were no more.

Feroda was unusable after the Closing, and too haunted for a trading place, which is why Tolkazzi settled for the location at Corflu instead.

On 5/17/2022 at 5:36 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Again this campaign is running from 1600...

In that case you could have an overseas partner of the Corflu venture returning a year or two delayed, only to find the successor of the venture disappeared into the Wastes due to delivery of a hyena skin. And then the wolf pirates appear in unprecedented numbers, and Fazzur captures Karse.

 

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Telling how it is excessive verbis

 

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