Definition of 'Undead'

[svensson]

58 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Presumably the Jolanti in Aggar that were ’hacked’ by Elves now have both INT and POW - I think I like this solution.

The Jolanti are constructs... while they do not have gears and boilers, they are constructed by Dwarfs as manipulative entities of the World Machine.

[svensson]

And how do folks figure that Humakt isn't the Orlanthi /Storm go-to deity for dealing with Undead?

For one thing, in Orlanthi cultures there's a Hell of a lot more Humakti running around than there are Daka Fals [pun intended].  For another, Humakt is an understood entity. While he has severed his kinship ties with Orlanth, Orlanthi cultures understand his purpose and nature far better than the widely varying mysticism of Daka Fal. Humakt has one set of 'rules' that are consistent across the cult [although there are certainly cultural variations here and there]. But every Shaman of Daka Fal makes it up as he goes and each is a highly individual mystic.

And my impressions from the KoDP game is that Kolatings, the 'pantheonic' shamans of Orlanthi culture' are not much help when it comes to hauntings and so forth.

It seems to me that there are three aspects /roles in Humakt cults, two of which are far more common than the third. The first is the mercenary captains /weaponmasters of the God of Death in Battle. The second isn't really really a sub-cult, as any practicing Humakti with the proper spells can fulfill the role, but the Oath-Keeper is still an important aspect of the God of Truth. The third is rarer but still vital in Storm communities... ESPECIALLY in the Colymar and other tribes bordering the Upland Marsh... is that of the Slayer of Undead. And in that role, a Humakti could have reasonable knowledge of ghosts and hauntings, as well a material Undead, sorceries [generic term, not the RQG magic type] that enslave spirits or create ghosts, Thanatari Heads and other such abominations.

Edited January 11, 2022 by svensson

[soltakss]

1 hour ago, svensson said:

And how do folks figure that Humakt isn't the Orlanthi /Storm go-to deity for dealing with Undead?

Why would we figure that?

Humakt is the go-to deity for Orlanthi/Storm when fighting Undead.

 

[svensson]

Several posters said something to the effect when discussing ghosts and spirits.

[Alex]

24 minutes ago, svensson said:

Several posters said something to the effect when discussing ghosts and spirits.

i.e. when discussing ghosts and spirits.  Not when discussing undead.  Thus, not to the same effect at all.

[Akhôrahil]

3 hours ago, Alex said:

i.e. when discussing ghosts and spirits.  Not when discussing undead.  Thus, not to the same effect at all.

Humakti can handle ghost to an extent - Truesword cuts them up but good, and even more so with Sword Trance - but aren’t as flexible with it as shamans in general and DF shamans in particular. Which seems like how it should be.

[Alex]

45 minutes ago, Akhôrahil said:

Humakti can handle ghost to an extent - Truesword cuts them up but good, and even more so with Sword Trance - but aren’t as flexible with it as shamans in general and DF shamans in particular. Which seems like how it should be.

Certainly.  Humakti can "handle" all sorts of entities and problems...  all in pretty much the same way. 🙂  (What was that line about "taking care of" something -- in the Robert de Niro sense.)  But there's things they're especially mythologically and temperamentally opposed to, and things that might just happen to get killed -- sooner or later, at least!  Undead are the former, spirits are the latter.

[g33k]

4 hours ago, svensson said:

Several posters said something to the effect when discussing ghosts and spirits.

"ghosts and spirits" as "undead" is a D&Dism, frankly.
Plenty of ancestral-spirit interactions that are OK; ancestor veneration (and contact with their spirits!) is actually an important part of Orlanthi culture.

Humakt has no issue with this.


Humakt's beef with the undead is specifically about corpses that don't lay down to quietly decompose, the way they are supposed to.

(edit to add:  "spirits" are the specialty of Shamans; and spirits of the dead are specifically Daka Fal's interest)

 

Edited January 11, 2022 by g33k
spirits & shamans

[Jeff]

On 1/10/2022 at 10:32 AM, svensson said:

Sorry, should have been more clear.

What I mean is the difference between Spirits [benevolent or neutral, acting within their nature] and Ghosts [malevolent, acting outside of their nature].

For example, a the ghost of a mortal held against its will is angry and trying to take over the living. That ghost is 'Undead' by Humakti definition and should be put to rest. But an ancestral spirit haunting its descendants for just cause is NOT 'Undead' and therefore must be appeased rather than put down.

From the perspective of the Humakt cult? A benevolent or neutral spirit is not usually dangerous, a ghost usually is. But the God of Death doesn't really care that much about either, except for those spirits that serve him.

[Martin Dick]

I would think that the go-to person for handling ghosts in an Orlanthi clan would probably be the nearest Ty Kora Tek priestess (or initiate if you don't know a priestess) given that they have the Rune spells of Command Ghost, Summon Dead and Turn Undead and her role is Goddess of the Dead. I'm pretty sure there are a lot more Ty Kora Tek initiates and priestesses that Daka Fal Shamans in Sartar. Probably less than Humakti initiates and worshippers, but maybe you don't want the ghost of old Uncle Alf destroyed, maybe you just want him to rest in peace in the Underworld.

But for a Sartarite clan, "Who you gonna call?" well, you gonna call whoever is the nearest available GhostBuster whether that is Daka Fal or Humakt or Ty Kora Tek or someone else, it's not like there's a GhostBuster Guild 🙂

As for Undead, sure, Humakt would probably be your first choice

[davecake]

On 1/11/2022 at 10:51 PM, svensson said:

And how do folks figure that Humakt isn't the Orlanthi /Storm go-to deity for dealing with Undead?

Of course he is. He just probably isn’t the most obvious go-to deity for dealing with ghosts, which aren’t undead. Ty Kora Tek probably is that, or talk to a shaman (Daka Fal are the most capable, but not the only shamans that can sort out a ghost).

But practically everyone has access to Spirit Block, and ghosts, by their nature, differ in their desires. Often the first person asked to deal with a ghost might be a rune lord or priest of the deceaseds cult. And often the ghost will be dealt with by finding out what is keeping it from the afterlife, and somehow satisfying it.

My favourite Gloranthan ghost story by far is the HeroQuest one where you deal with the village of ghosts by undertaking a lawsuit on their behalf against their neighbors. 
 

[Sir_Godspeed]

3 hours ago, davecake said:

My favourite Gloranthan ghost story by far is the HeroQuest one where you deal with the village of ghosts by undertaking a lawsuit on their behalf against their neighbors. 

There's also the one in King of Dragon Pass where you can sue the ghost (revenant? It looks like it has a body) itself on behalf of its bereaved family.

[Alex]

6 hours ago, davecake said:

My favourite Gloranthan ghost story by far is the HeroQuest one where you deal with the village of ghosts by undertaking a lawsuit on their behalf against their neighbors. 

Which story is that, remind us?

[Akhôrahil]

51 minutes ago, Alex said:

Which story is that, remind us?

"Ghosts of the Ridge" in Sartar Companion (p. 196), presumably.

Edited January 13, 2022 by Akhôrahil