Rules for the Pamalt cult?

[dumuzid]

I like Pamalt, a lot.  I like his myths, I like his way of doing things generally.  In the game I run my players have encountered a few of his worshipers among the Agimori of Prax and Pithdaros, and there was enough in the Red Book of Magic for me to approximate things at the table.  What I'm curious about is the current, broader thinking within the community and among the actual developers on how to render Pamalt's cult in RQG rules.  What would be his special rune magic?  How would his cult be structured?  Is Greg's idea from Revealed Mythologies that Doraddi societies reject sacrificial worship of the gods still a part of the equation?  Going deeper, what sorts of magical interactions arise from the Necklace of Pamalt?  Does the Necklace affect Pamalt's access to associated cults, cult spirits etc.?

In all my scrounging of older-edition texts i don't think I've ever seen a Pamalt cult write-up, though I suspect there might be one in Second Age Glorantha.  What does the tribe think the cult looks like?

[Richard S.]

Judging by the other cults, I'd say his RQ3 GoG form is most similar to what we'll eventually get. He has shamans and rune priests, though shamans may not become priests (though acolyte/god-talker is fine) since that position is reserved for chieftains. As a shaman cult, initiates can learn any common spirit magic, and Pamalt also provides Comprehension and Pamalt's Touch. Rune magic includes all common spells, Command Gnome, Earthtouch, and Gnome-to-Gargoyle. In terms of associated cults, Chalana Arroy provides Heal Body and Lodril provides Summon Lodril. I expect his full writeup will provide more associate cults, but I doubt the rest will change much.

[Godlearner]

10 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

i don't think I've ever seen a Pamalt cult write-up

There is one in the RQ3 Gods of Glorantha.

[dumuzid]

1 minute ago, Richard S. said:

Judging by the other cults

Excellent, excellent.  Is there any indication from RQ3 of what Pamalt's runes ought to be?  I'd guess Earth, Fire and Man from his myths, probably a double Earth like Ernalda under the current system.

[Richard S.]

2 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

Excellent, excellent.  Is there any indication from RQ3 of what Pamalt's runes ought to be?  I'd guess Earth, Fire and Man from his myths, probably a double Earth like Ernalda under the current system.

It lists him as Pamalt/Mastery, but since neither of those are character runes I'd go Earth/Man. I don't think double earth, that indicates ownership and that's still Ernalda, or Fire, since he's a direct child of Gata and that's the domain of his uncle Lodril anyways.

[dumuzid]

4 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

I don't think double earth, that indicates ownership and that's still Ernalda, or Fire, since he's a direct child of Gata and that's the domain of his uncle Lodril anyways.

See, what I would argue is that Genert had double-Earth too, and Ernalda has only moved into his permanently vacated seat.  She's 'owner' of the Earth Rune within the version of the Gods War that ended with Arachne Solara's Web, while Pamalt is the 'owner' within the version that ends with the Necklace of Pamalt.

All that's just me spitballing of course, based in part on what Sandy's done with the Earth faction in his Gods War game.

e: I suspect the God Learners of the Six Legged Empire probably made some attempts at asserting Ernalda's primacy over Pamalt, to force Pamaltela to yield suitable fodder for their horses 'naturally,' among other motives, but we know how that worked out for them.

Edited April 13, 2022 by dumuzid

[jajagappa]

49 minutes ago, Richard S. said:

It lists him as Pamalt/Mastery, but since neither of those are character runes I'd go Earth

I believe it is Earth, Mastery, and Pamalt (aka Power) runes.

The RQ3 spirit magics were: Comprehension, Coordination, Endurance, Glamour, Pamalt's Touch, Strength and Vigor.  The RQ3 Rune spells were: Command Earth Elemental, Earthtouch, and Gnome-to-Gargoyle.

I'd expect these to remain as-is for RQG.

 

 

[SDLeary]

8 hours ago, jajagappa said:

I believe it is Earth, Mastery, and Pamalt (aka Power) runes.

The RQ3 spirit magics were: Comprehension, Coordination, Endurance, Glamour, Pamalt's Touch, Strength and Vigor.  The RQ3 Rune spells were: Command Earth Elemental, Earthtouch, and Gnome-to-Gargoyle.

I'd expect these to remain as-is for RQG.

 

 

Also... organization is a bit different. Initiate and Shaman, as stated on the tin, though Shaman cannot later become Chieftains. Acolyte, priests who are not Chieftans. Chieftain, top of the heap. Cult Priest and leader of the social group in one.

SDLeary 

[David Scott]

14 hours ago, dumuzid said:

what Pamalt's runes ought to be?

See https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/p/pamalt/

[dumuzid]

1 hour ago, David Scott said:

See https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/prosopaedia/deities/p/pamalt/

What's the rune there that looks like an arrow pointing up?

[David Scott]

2 minutes ago, dumuzid said:

What's the rune there that looks like an arrow pointing up?

It's the Power / Pamalt Rune https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/home/gloranthan-documents/glorantha-2/glorantha-core-rune-font/

The Guide 151 says

Quote

Power is associated with Sovereign of the southern continent. Originally owner unknown, its current owner is Pamalt.

 

[metcalph]

16 hours ago, dumuzid said:

 Is Greg's idea from Revealed Mythologies that Doraddi societies reject sacrificial worship of the gods still a part of the equation? 

Rather than make special rules about High Shamanic Ideal, I'd say that Pamalt has a regular RQ style cult (Tales #11 is the fullest bar the prosopedia) with the following caveats:

• The Pamalting are expected to know as much spirit magic as possible.  
• Rather than sacrifice for Rune Magic at a temple, the Pamalting learns them from Spirit Cults instead.  

In other places, such as the northern coast, Pamalt might have a more conventional cult with organized temples

16 hours ago, dumuzid said:

Going deeper, what sorts of magical interactions arise from the Necklace of Pamalt?  Does the Necklace affect Pamalt's access to associated cults, cult spirits etc.?

The Necklace is IMO pretty much the same as the Storm Tribe or Orlanth's Ring, the relationship of the Gods of Pamaltela to Pamalt and vice versa.  

[davecake]

Pamalts cult is a shamanic cult in the sense that he has shamans that have access to rune magic rather, like Daka Fal or the Hsunchen cults. But he is also a god of sovereignty, to his chieftains may act as priests as far as rune magic and leading ceremonies go. 
The chieftains are too busy being chieftains, though, so most spirit magic is learnt from shamans. 
Peter is right that the RQ3 long form write up that was in Tales of the Reaching Moon is the best source on the Pamalt cult. I suspect the RQG version will be very similar. 

18 hours ago, jajagappa said:

believe it is Earth, Mastery, and Pamalt (aka Power) runes.

That’s what the Guide says. And as he seems to have only Earth spells as cult rune magic, that’s probably all that is needed. 
 

19 hours ago, dumuzid said:

In the game I run my players have encountered a few of his worshipers among the Agimori of Prax and Pithdaros, and there was enough in the Red Book of Magic for me to approximate things at the table.

I don’t really think there are worshippers of Pamalt in Genertela even among the Agimori. And if there were, he would be much weaker - none of his Power abilities, including no Necklace.  But YGWV. 
 

20 hours ago, dumuzid said:

Going deeper, what sorts of magical interactions arise from the Necklace of Pamalt?  Does the Necklace affect Pamalt's access to associated cults, cult spirits etc.?

I think yes - all the gods of the Necklace have each other as Associated cults, and there are a lot of them, so that is a lot of magic available. In some cases the god may be present only as a spirit cult, or only at particular sites or during special rituals, but it’s still useful. (Well, Bolongo may not actually be useful). 
Pamalt has connections to other gods, too, such as fiwan/animal gods, maybe some Artmali ones. 

I think the Power rune is about Pamalt becoming powerful because he has connections to others, whereas Orlanth or Yelm has connections to others because they are powerful. Or something like that. 

19 hours ago, dumuzid said:

I suspect the God Learners of the Six Legged Empire probably made some attempts at asserting Ernalda's primacy over Pamalt, to force Pamaltela to yield suitable fodder for their horses 'naturally,' among other motives, but we know how that worked out for them.

FWIW, I think the cults book will say that the God Learners identified Faranar as the Pamaltelan version of Ernalda, probably correctly.