Kyger Litor and Dagori Inkarth

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

Jeff mentioned that Kyger Litor rules Dagori Inkarth, and that got me thinking about how this relates to the compromise. Gods are allowed to give instructions to their followers and they have a castle of lead and those extend down into the underworld where Kyger Litor can act more freely. Can anyone elaborate on how she rules a middle word kingdom while following the compromise?

Edited June 14, 2022 by FlamingCatOfDeath
Grammar

[metcalph]

The Mistress Race Trolls there are practically her incarnations and if you suggest there's any daylight between them and Kyger Litor then you get eaten. 

[g33k]

Yeah, the Castle of Lead is virtually unique.

There are other places where you can just... walk... to the Underworld (or to some other Otherworld), but not very many.
Most of those aren't places that are simple residences of Middle-World creatures!

Offhand, the only similar place I recall is Glamour, where there's a staircase leading up to the Red Moon (note that Sedenya is also more active in the Middle World).

 

[FlamingCatOfDeath]

12 minutes ago, g33k said:

Yeah, the Castle of Lead is virtually unique.

There are other places where you can just... walk... to the Underworld (or to some other Otherworld), but not very many.
Most of those aren't places that are simple residences of Middle-World creatures!

Offhand, the only similar place I recall is Glamour, where there's a staircase leading up to the Red Moon (note that Sedenya is also more active in the Middle World).

 

There are other castles of lead besides the one in Dagori Inkarth. I wonder if their is a “Proximate Holy Realm” over DK’s castle of lead allowing her to manifest in any part of it?

[Dissolv]

I thought that part of the compromise was to sort of freeze things the way they played out in the Gods War.  Darkness had an iron grip on Dagori Inkarth, so they retained extra power there during Time.

[Brian Duguid]

I think a lot of this just hangs in what "rules" means. The big KL isn't a Queen sitting on a throne directing underlings. What she wants is defined through her cult - it literally tells her people how to behave. If they need more detail, the cult hierarchy is there to provide it.

[JRE]

I would agree that probably each Castle of Lead has an avatar of KL as the focus that gives them the direct connection to the underworld, something similar to what a Great Tree does with Aldrya in Elven forests. The avatar is most of the time her own Mistress Troll, but will be assumed by an aspect of KL when needed. 

It will be difficult to differentiate whether it is the deity's actual consciousness who is acting in time, or her instincts, presented as an aspect, mediated through the avatar to make decisions in Time, while KL the entity remains fixed (subject to heroic modification) outside of time. 

That opens the possibility for the avatar to initiate heroquests that eventually will make KL adapt to changes in time, which is how I envision responses to Nysalor's Curse of Kin. KL cannot change herself, but she can promote heroquests to change her to reverse the curse, as Nysalor broke her soul from within time. 

[French Desperate WindChild]

I think "Kyger Litor rules Dagori Inkarth" means a lot of things :

 

1) KL is the great goddess of trolls, trolls rule Dagori Inkarth, so KL rules Dagori Inkarth (not the goddess herself, the cult)

so no issue with the compromise

 

2) KL herself rules Dagori Inkarth

but how ?

Does she decide herself who is appointed to this position ? did she order her warrioris to attack tomorrow the forest ? to negociate some stuff with the neigbours because the tribes need more food that they have ?

For me no: she is not the temporal leader of the area. She doesn't breach the great compromise. As any god she doesn't make decision, plan, or anything temporal.

That is her heirs who do the job (figurarively the priestess, but because KL, physically some real great children mistress race trolls)

 

Now,

like, for me, Aldrya (and Magasta ?) she is both a goddess and an ancestor.

- as a goddess she offers spells, etc.. can answer (divination, DI, ...) and the most important for any god, has defined  the good behavior, laws and other rules since before the compromise. So yes she rules Dagori Inkarth

- as an ancestor (shamanism way) she may be summoned to share some temporal experience and activity. In all cases that the shamans who open the door, not she, herself. So no issue with the compromise (from my perspective)

 

another point is "geography" (like Magasta and the seas ?)  Dagori Inkarth is both in the mundane world and in the underworld (you may probably find some tunnels, caves, etc..)

So if you have mundane beings, probably the high priestess, who navigate (heroquest ? normal walk ?) between the upper and the under Dagori Inkarth, they can have even more information / instruction than any other spirit cult or god cult

 

the great compromise doesn't block the gods to do thing. They only cannot act by themselves, they cannot imagine new ways, they cannot decide. But if you ask, they may answer, with words or magic.

In th white bull campaign (don't remember the #), Orlanth was able to answer the pcs where was the lunar army.

the answer was x days  from Boldhome (if I'm right)

so Orlanth understand time (x day) and understand mundane location. He is here and now

 

So is KL, here and now, mother of all the trolls, ruler of all trolls empires

[Jeff]

Ask any troll who the ruler of Dagori Inkarth is and they will say it is the Goddess of Dagori Inkarth - Kyger Litor. This is HER place. The Elder Kin serve the Goddess of Dagori Inkarth, and we of course obey them.

[soltakss]

On 6/14/2022 at 10:02 PM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Jeff mentioned that Kyger Litor rules Dagori Inkarth, and that got me thinking about how this relates to the compromise. Gods are allowed to give instructions to their followers and they have a castle of lead and those extend down into the underworld where Kyger Litor can act more freely. Can anyone elaborate on how she rules a middle word kingdom while following the compromise?

Kyger Litor lives in all the Castles of Lead, however she lives in the deepest parts of them, in Hell.

She rules the Castles of Lead, as they are her home.

She also rules Dagori Inkarth.

However, she has no interest in the day to day affairs of folk, leaving that to lesser folk.

She provides guidance and leadership.

She whispers into the ears of the oldest of the UzUz, who whisper in the ears of other UzUz, who whisper in the ears of the leaders of the Uz, who tell the Uz what to do. There are lots of places where that message could be garbled and changed.

But, does Kyger Litor care than the Redstone tribe lost a monopoly to another tribe? Not at all, such things are beneath her and, to an extent, beyond her understanding.

[Darius West]

On 6/15/2022 at 7:02 AM, FlamingCatOfDeath said:

Jeff mentioned that Kyger Litor rules Dagori Inkarth, and that got me thinking about how this relates to the compromise. Gods are allowed to give instructions to their followers and they have a castle of lead and those extend down into the underworld where Kyger Litor can act more freely. Can anyone elaborate on how she rules a middle word kingdom while following the compromise?

Ya know its a bit hard saying you're the Only Old One when you can wander north and find Kyger Litor still hanging out there 😉 (just trolling)

[Joerg]

On 6/22/2022 at 10:58 AM, Darius West said:

Ya know its a bit hard saying you're the Only Old One when you can wander north and find Kyger Litor still hanging out there 😉 (just trolling)

If the OOO was just a troll, you'd be right, but he is the only one of an ancient race that can take on the shapes of troll, human, or dehori. Kitori masters of the Night Cult would attain these racial abilities (regardless of which species they started from) and become the New Ones of that race, but because Eurmal killed his son during that Underworld banquet in the Obsidian Palace, there is only one Old specimen of that race. (Perhaps species rather than race, but being able to breed with any of the shapes he was able to attain begetting fertile offspring may make the old biological meaning of race a better fit than species.)