Humakt?

[Ian A. Thomson]

Is Humakt suited as the deity of choice for a bunch of exiled Carmanian Knights and supporters?

Idovanus. Bisos?

Humakt is probably the easiest to deal with since it's fully officially detailed

Edited July 7, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[Nick Brooke]

Last option is correct. Only the Carmanian Magi are pure enough to worship Idovanus.

[Ian A. Thomson]

1 hour ago, Nick Brooke said:

Last option is correct. Only the Carmanian Magi are pure enough to worship Idovanus.

Thanks Nick

Bisos? Humakt? I just edited the post before your response appeared, so can't recall what last option was :(

Edited July 7, 2022 by Ian Thomson

[Nick Brooke]

(shrug)

Can't help you there.

[M Helsdon]

6 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Humakt is probably the easiest to deal with since it's fully officially detailed

Yes. If you want some Carmanian colour, previously there has been mention of a local version: Emgarvu is the keeper of the Dead, Bringer of Death, Keen Edge of War, Slayer of Men, and the Taker of Breath. This was his name as worshiped by the Spolites, who worshiped anything from the Underworld.  The Black Magi of the Carmanians consecrated worship of Emgarvu as acceptable - "some of us are killers".

Here is a typical Carmanian invocation of Emgarvu:

Oh Great Emgavu, we send you these hearts of seven beasts and a man, that you will keep our swords sharp, blind our foes and take their souls to hell for eternal suffering.

I have no idea if this variant of Humakt is still canonical.

Edited July 7, 2022 by M Helsdon

[Ian A. Thomson]

2 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

I have no idea if this variant of Humakt is still canonical.

Thanks for that

Very interesting

While I am basing the foundations and core of the Pavis & Big Rubble Companion stuff on canon of course. (Even going out of my way to make it so)...

... this version, as with the original, will be a 'What if...' variant of Glorantha

Mainly 'What if there really was a secret Pavis Grand Plan like me and Greg discussed'. How would that change history and politics

And alongside that a small range of other MGF differences will be added to the mix, such as the Yelmalion worshipping Ostrich Clan

So this Humakt idea sounds fantastic to me, canon or not :)

[metcalph]

9 hours ago, Ian Thomson said:

Is Humakt suited as the deity of choice for a bunch of exiled Carmanian Knights and supporters?

I think they would worship Yanafal Tarnils rather than Humakt as he's the better Fighting God.  Humakt to them would be kinda like Umath to the Orlanthi - once a powerful god but no longer.  Being his worshippers won't stop them from being exiled.   Bisos is really a version of Storm Bull (he once wasn't but he now is).  But it depends on why they were exiled.  In the Western Reaches, real troublemakers would be madea walk into the Ban while the potential trouble-makers (weaker side of a brewing feud) are not exiled as such but think it will be easier if they just went elsewhere.  

While there are local variants of Humakt (WelPolo in the Enkosiad), they would be used as colour in the local ceremonies rather than distinct cults in their own right.    If the exiles are pretty dedicated enough they may get an exotic rune spell or guft from his worship but that would be about it.

[JRE]

I would expect some clans unhappy with the Empire and the current satraps would make a statement by worshipping Humakt rather than YT, and that may be the kind of people that are sent to fight and die in the borders of the Empire. Up to using straight swords, in some cases family heirlooms from Syranthir days. The Guide specifically mentions Humakt.

Even if the name in Carmanian is different, for game purposes I would use Humakt as that will be easily recognized. I would emphasize they belong to the dark side of the Carmanian duality, and are more ruthless and probably less honourable have different honor compared to Sartarite humakti. Western lamellar armour rather than cuirasses would also help separate them from the Heartland Lunars. 

The supporters could be Lodrili servants, or even Invisible Orlanth supporting troops. I would expect the hazars (knights) all worship the same god, but Invisible Orlanth could be a nice twist. However as we do not know what the invisibility changes, I would use the familiarity of Humakt, with a twist as shown in M Helsdon quote. 

 

[Jeff]

On 7/7/2022 at 6:57 AM, Ian Thomson said:

Is Humakt suited as the deity of choice for a bunch of exiled Carmanian Knights and supporters?

Idovanus. Bisos?

Humakt is probably the easiest to deal with since it's fully officially detailed

Humakt is still an important god in the West Reaches and there are about as many Humakti in the West Reaches as in Dragon Pass.

[soltakss]

22 hours ago, M Helsdon said:

I have no idea if this variant of Humakt is still canonical.

Does it really matter?

If we want the canonical Humakt, we can use the one in the rulebook.

The other versions are local flavour.

 

[Jeff]

3 hours ago, Jeff said:

Humakt is still an important god in the West Reaches and there are about as many Humakti in the West Reaches as in Dragon Pass.

And remember, the West Reaches have quite a bit of Theyalan influence, and not just God Time Pelandan mythology as per the Entekosiad. Humakt likely was recognized in Pelanda as early as the First Age. Humakt was present in Fronela from at least the late First Age (certainly in the Gbaji Wars). It may seem at the edge of the map now because of the Ban, but until then what is now the West Reaches was a crossroads between Peloria, Fronela, and the so-called Barbarian Belt. With weird "atheist" rulers that had their own spin on things.

[Shiningbrow]

Related, but askew from the main point.

I'm watching the mini-series Romulus, an Italian production of 8th C BCE Italy (oddly enough!), where there's no actual magic, but has all the ideas of people believing it.

In episode 4, there's a type of initiation ceremony that I think should be fairly similar to what I think a god of Death would expect from their initiates, and to make it more than merely "can you use a sword?" Obviously Iron Age, but still with other metals common (apparently, including modern steel... yeah, there's a few issues with anachronistic stuff).

The series uses the names of Mars and Jupiter, etc although I'm not sure if that's a literal translation or not.

I won't give it away, so I'll just spoiler tag it for those who are interested.

Spoiler

A character wants to follow the path of Mars to avenge the murder of her lover. She is tied up with what is effectively barbed wire, and hung over a fire. She must endure the pain to be 'initiated' - well, actually it's merely the first step... there's still a bit after that she has to do.

So, I think I'll start a thread on the topic.

[Darius West]

On 7/8/2022 at 8:29 AM, metcalph said:

I think they would worship Yanafal Tarnils rather than Humakt as he's the better Fighting God. 

Idk man, reusable Sever Spirit is Humakt only.  Yanafal's big trick is that he is a lot like Humakt but can get resurrected.  But then, how often do you plan on getting killed?

[Akhôrahil]

On 7/7/2022 at 2:57 PM, Ian A. Thomson said:

Is Humakt suited as the deity of choice for a bunch of exiled Carmanian Knights and supporters?

I would say so. He fits unusually well as one of the gods judged to be of the Truth in Carmania. When the Carmanians called on their gods in their Dark aspects at Four Arrows of Light, Humakt was one of them.

Guide: "The most popular cults are those of Turos
and Oria, Charmain, Bisos and Esus, Oronin,
and the City Gods of Pelanda. Other deities
include Yelm, Humakt, Orlanth, Urox, and
the Red Goddess."

Sourcebook (4AoL): "At last Humakt fought Yanafal, but they fought
each other to a standstill, even though Yanafal was aided
by his devoted warriors and Humakt was not."

So maybe Humakt has become less popular since, but he still seems highly fitting. Perhaps especially with the conservatives?
 

Edited July 10, 2022 by Akhôrahil