Hill of Gold Myth

[Bohemond]

Is there a full, canonical (or semi-canonical) version of the Hill of Gold myth beyond the fragmentary details in Arcane Lore? There's Simon Phipps' version on his website, but I'm wondering if anyone else has a different or fuller text than that. 

[M Helsdon]

12 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Is there a full, canonical (or semi-canonical) version of the Hill of Gold myth beyond the fragmentary details in Arcane Lore? There's Simon Phipps' version on his website, but I'm wondering if anyone else has a different or fuller text than that. 

The fundamentals are that: 

At the Hill of Gold, Yelmalio was disarmed by Orlanth, fought Inora to a standstill, and was then ambushed by Zorak Zoran, who stole his fire powers. The Cold Sun fell and bled out his life-giving heat and power upon the Hill of Gold. His favored weapons of bow and sword fell also and were absorbed into the knowledge of the whole world. 

The various Sun Dome temples have more expansive versions, and the Hill of Gold is where Yelmalio is said to reside in his palace in the Otherworld.

[JRE]

It is mentioned in Arcane Lore, part of the Stafford library that is available for purchase. I have it in a box somewhere, and I do not remember the details. The canon status is mixed. That means it is true in some place in Glorantha, but not in others. I may try to find the right box this evening.

The Glorantha Sourcebook, which is canon, has a short version, and a nice illustration of Zorak Zoran and Yelmalio fighting.

Quote

At the Hill of Gold, he was disarmed by Orlanth, his Fire powers stolen by Zorak Zoran, and he bled out his life-giving heat. Wounded, robbed, and hounded from place to place, Yelmalio carried the spark of life throughout the Darkness.

In the Guide:

Quote

Not all results of Heroquests are beneficial, even when the Heroquest is performed perfectly. For example, Yelmalio gains immortality on the Hill of Gold Quest. Yet he must suffer terrible woes on his journey – Orlanth wounds him and steals his weapons; Zorak Zoran appears and breaks his thighs; Inora, the white princess, leaves him spurned and frozen immobile.

The Hill of Gold is a physical place in Vanch. I suppose the heroquest is easier (relatively) there.

We know that it is possible to "fail" the quest by beating the enemies and you get to keep the Fire powers. You cannot become immortal, however.

Edited August 2, 2022 by JRE
Additional information

[Bohemond]

I'm aware of what the quest involves, and as I said I have Arcane Lore. What I'm wondering is if someone else has actually published a full version of the myth itself somewhere. I'm looking at it from the Orlanth perspective and wondering if I have to write the text myself or if I can just steal it from someone. 

[David Scott]

33 minutes ago, Bohemond said:

Is there a full, canonical (or semi-canonical) version of the Hill of Gold myth beyond the fragmentary details in Arcane Lore? There's Simon Phipps' version on his website, but I'm wondering if anyone else has a different or fuller text than that. 

Have a look at Steven Marsh's Heroquest stuff: https://adrr.com/hero/

It's pretty complete, I doubt there's more in the original A&E

[Akhôrahil]

Also a lot - and I mean a lot  - here (make sure to check the links):

http://www.soltakss.com/hog1d.html

I believe this is the stuff that's going to form the basis for the forthcoming Jonstown Compendium publication?

Edited August 2, 2022 by Akhôrahil

[Bohemond]

2 hours ago, David Scott said:

Have a look at Steven Marsh's Heroquest stuff: https://adrr.com/hero/

It's pretty complete, I doubt there's more in the original A&E

Thanks!--I'd forgotten that. It's not the actual myth, but it's a pretty clear framework. 

[Bohemond]

What is the actual trade that Inora and Yelmalio enact? I know that the result of it is that sunlight reaches the Hill, but Inora's cold remains, but what is the deal in the myth? 

Also, what is Orlanth trying to accomplish? We know Yelmalio wants to reach the summit in order to speak with his father, but what's Orlanth's goal or motivation?

[Eff]

1 hour ago, Bohemond said:

What is the actual trade that Inora and Yelmalio enact? I know that the result of it is that sunlight reaches the Hill, but Inora's cold remains, but what is the deal in the myth? 

Also, what is Orlanth trying to accomplish? We know Yelmalio wants to reach the summit in order to speak with his father, but what's Orlanth's goal or motivation?

I don't think there's a canonical answer. So, 

1) Going by the Stephen Martin version, the deal they make is probably a simple truce, or a pact of non-interference, after they've realized neither can triumph over the other. But casting a broader net, I suspect that Yelmalio trades some of his celestial orientation to Inora and gets some of her earthly orientation, so that Yelmalio always is able to touch the ground in the mountains and Inora has a firm elevated position in the mountains. Neither of these translate well to RQG magic, and I can't help you there. 

2) This is a Yelmalio myth, so Orlanth doesn't have a motivation beyond being a thief and a brute. I have no real insight into what the Orlanth story is that underlies this mythological intersection point, and I think it has to be invented from nothing because Orlanth is straightforwardly a literary device to render Yelmalio vulnerable in the myth as it is roughed out. 

[jajagappa]

6 hours ago, Bohemond said:

canonical (or semi-canonical) version of the Hill of Gold myth

"Canonical" gets a bit dicey with myths/heroquests.  Besides what is noted above, there's about 8 different versions of the Hill of Gold myth from different perspectives in Enclosure #2.

2 hours ago, Bohemond said:

I know that the result of it is that sunlight reaches the Hill, but Inora's cold remains, but what is the deal in the myth? 

Yelmalio was frozen instead of dying.  Inora's ice sparkles brilliantly, even blindingly, in the light.

1 hour ago, Eff said:

I have no real insight into what the Orlanth story is that underlies this mythological intersection point

Storms inherently fight/block the light of the Sun.  It's effectively a repetition of Orlanth fighting Yelm or Umath fighting Aether.

[Bohemond]

49 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

"Canonical" gets a bit dicey with myths/heroquests.  Besides what is noted above, there's about 8 different versions of the Hill of Gold myth from different perspectives in Enclosure #2.

Yelmalio was frozen instead of dying.  Inora's ice sparkles brilliantly, even blindingly, in the light.

Storms inherently fight/block the light of the Sun.  It's effectively a repetition of Orlanth fighting Yelm or Umath fighting Aether.

The stuff in Enclosure really helps! Thanks!

[John Biles]

8 hours ago, Bohemond said:

What is the actual trade that Inora and Yelmalio enact? I know that the result of it is that sunlight reaches the Hill, but Inora's cold remains, but what is the deal in the myth? 

Also, what is Orlanth trying to accomplish? We know Yelmalio wants to reach the summit in order to speak with his father, but what's Orlanth's goal or motivation?

I believe if this plays out differently, it becomes the scenario where Yelmalio/Elmal and Orlanth become friends.

 

[JRE]

Sorry for not noticing you already had Arcane Lore, as there are two different versions and some discussion of it. Even in Arcane Lore, the trade with Inora is optional, as you can also fight her. I really like the image of exchanging ice sparkles for surviving being frozen.

There is also a different Dara Happan perspective in GRoY, where an emperor and several wanna be emperors visit the Hill of Gold and are defeated terribly, despite being supported by Antirius, weakening Antirius (possibly another mask behind Yelmalio). Deshvekorgos finally succeeds recovering the lost Imperial regalia. 

[jajagappa]

12 hours ago, Bohemond said:

The stuff in Enclosure really helps! Thanks!

Sure.

The Hill of Gold was very central in my development of myths in Imther and Vanch so I had a lot of interest in exploring variants.  And I'm still convinced that there are Vanchites who wait near the Hill of Gold for enterprising Yelmalions with the goal of leading them enough astray to gain treasures from them.

[soltakss]

On 8/2/2022 at 6:19 PM, Akhôrahil said:

Also a lot - and I mean a lot  - here (make sure to check the links):

http://www.soltakss.com/hog1d.html

I believe this is the stuff that's going to form the basis for the forthcoming Jonstown Compendium publication?

Yes, eventually.

[John Biles]

This has long been an enigma as to the full details, which is why I put this in my Blue Moon Empire project:

Hill of Gold:  This is the holiest site of Yelmalio, where he got his ass beaten down and was stripped of his strongest powers, but proved to be too tough to die.  Different Yelmalio sects identify different attackers, including Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, Sheng Seleris, Zzabur, merpeople, Elmal, Ernalda, seven different ice goddesses, Anterius, Yu-Kargazant, Waha, Bisos, Navaria (who tried to sacrifice him as a Corn King and bungled it), and Odalya (who mistook him for a deer somehow).  One myth cycle claims he somehow attacked himself.  This brings a steady tide of pilgrims to the base of the Hill to pray and carry out Heroquests.  This is also believed by Orlanthi to be where Elmal met Orlanth.  That also brings pilgrims.  A group of Zistorites, the Legion of Gold, briefly seized the Hill during the Second Age, but were basically mobbed by Sun Domers.

[jajagappa]

51 minutes ago, John Biles said:

A group of Zistorites, the Legion of Gold, briefly seized the Hill during the Second Age, but were basically mobbed by Sun Domers.

More likely they were robbed by thieving Vanchites... 😉

[EricW]

On 8/4/2022 at 6:15 AM, John Biles said:

This has long been an enigma as to the full details, which is why I put this in my Blue Moon Empire project:

Hill of Gold:  This is the holiest site of Yelmalio, where he got his ass beaten down and was stripped of his strongest powers, but proved to be too tough to die.  Different Yelmalio sects identify different attackers, including Orlanth, Zorak Zoran, Sheng Seleris, Zzabur, merpeople, Elmal, Ernalda, seven different ice goddesses, Anterius, Yu-Kargazant, Waha, Bisos, Navaria (who tried to sacrifice him as a Corn King and bungled it), and Odalya (who mistook him for a deer somehow).  One myth cycle claims he somehow attacked himself.  This brings a steady tide of pilgrims to the base of the Hill to pray and carry out Heroquests.  This is also believed by Orlanthi to be where Elmal met Orlanth.  That also brings pilgrims.  A group of Zistorites, the Legion of Gold, briefly seized the Hill during the Second Age, but were basically mobbed by Sun Domers.

Oh my, maybe the Hill of Gold like the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, where different groups of Christians regularly battle with clubs and other weapons over physical control the church, to decide who will perform important services to honour the Prince of Peace. 

Edited August 8, 2022 by EricW

[John Biles]

On 8/7/2022 at 10:55 PM, EricW said:

Oh my, maybe the Hill of Gold like the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, where different groups of Christians regularly battle with clubs and other weapons over physical control the church, to decide who will perform important services to honour the Prince of Peace. 

This being Glorantha, eventually, the battles themselves become a Heroquest performed there.

 

[EricW]

37 minutes ago, John Biles said:

This being Glorantha, eventually, the battles themselves become a Heroquest performed there.

 

Could explain Yelmalio fighting himself…