dead Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 I’m new to BRP and don’t own any books yet. I’m looking to start collecting and the ones below are the first ones I’ve lined up but I had some questions: --------------------------------------------------- - Basic Roleplaying (2nd Edition, 2008) - Monograph #0370 - Basic Magic (2009) - Monograph #0371 - Basic Creatures (2009) - Monograph #0372 - Basic Gamemaster (2009) - Basic Roleplaying (2nd Edition, 2011) - The Magic Book (2011) - Magic World (2012) --------------------------------------------------- My questions: 1) Is the 2011 printing of Basic Roleplaying the same as the 2008 printing with maybe just updated errata? They are both 400-pages. 2) Is The Magic Book the same as Monograph #0370 - Basic Magic? The blurbs sound very similar but Basic Magic talks about Spirit Magic, Divine Magic, Sorcery and Ceremony. Where as, The Magic Book talks about Spirit Magic, Divine Magic, Wizardry and Ritual Magic. Did Chaosium just change the names of the last two types of magic (ie. Sorcery to Wizardry and Ceremony to Ritual Magic)? 3) The core book details Sorcery. Is the Sorcery mentioned in Basic Magic the same as the Sorcery in the core book or is it different? 4) I understand Magic World is a self-contained book based on Elric! (which I might buy anyway as I liked the old Elric!), but does it contain any new material that is not in the core rulebook? 5) Are the “complete rules for nautical adventures” in Magic World the same as the “ships and the sea” supplementary rules in Basic Gamemaster? Thank you Quote
NickMiddleton Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 1) I believe so, yes 2) The Magic Book (2011) was revised to bring its terminology more in line with the 2008 / 2011 Basic Role Playing. Historically, that material was originally published as the Magic Book in the Avalon Hill edition of RuneQuest in the 1980’s, which is where the terms Sorcery and Ceremony originate iirc. 3) Sorcery in the core BRP rules and the Magic Book are entirely different magic systems. Confusingly, BRP 2008/2012 "Sorcery" is basically the same magic system from Magicworld (2012), derived from the same source, the system in Elric! 4) Magic World (2012) is indeed Elric! There are a few subtle revisions that are worth the trivial price of the PDF (a streamline version of cultures, some streamlining and clarifications in skills and combats). Also the spell list is somewhat consolidated to include various additions in other Elric! supplements but the Summoning and Binding systems that were core, and the whole sale new systems for Runes, Necromancy and others are NOT in the core Magic World (2012) book but in its single supplement, Advanced Sorcery. 5) The ships and sailing rules are derived from the Elric! supplement Sailing on the Seas of Fate - these were in turn derived from the Avalon Hill RuneQuest edition in the 1980’s, which are indeed the rules that appear in the Basic Gamemaster book. Edited March 9, 2023 by NickMiddleton edited for clarity Quote
Mugen Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, dead said: 3) The core book details Sorcery. Is the Sorcery mentioned in Basic Magic the same as the Sorcery in the core book or is it different? The answer to this question may be quite confusing for someone not aware of Chaosium publication history. Basically, all the magic systems come from older Chaosium publications. -as said above, "Basic Magic" is a reprint from RuneQuest 3 and contain 4 types of Magic : Spirit (mixing shamanism and "common Magic"), Divine, Sorcery and Ritual. -The 2011 Basic Roleplaying (usually named the Big Gold Book, or BGB, because it's thick and yellow) contains magic systems from Magic World 1st edition (*) (named Magic), Elric! (named Sorcery) and ElfQuest (which is used for Psionics). Despite the use of similar names, BGB Sorcery is actually closer to Basic Magic "Spirit Magic", and BGB Magic is closer to Basic Magic "Sorcery". BGB Magic and Basic Magic Sorcery require you to learn a skill for each spell, and let you chose the strength of your spells, depending on the amount of Magic Points you spend. Spirit Magic and BGB Sorcery are more simple : there are no skills to learn, and spells have either a fixed cost, or a limit to the number of MP you can spend. Spirit Magic also deals with Spirit summoning and shamans, whereas BGB Sorcery has rules for Demon and Elemental summonings. BGB Psionics are in fact not very different from BGB Magic. They just focus on effects associated with Psi powers. (*) Magic World first edition was very different from second edition, which is basically the same as Elric ! Edited March 9, 2023 by Mugen 1 Quote
Mugen Posted March 9, 2023 Posted March 9, 2023 (edited) Basic Magic "Divine Magic" allows you to learn very powerful spells. But you need to worship a deity and pay POW to obtain those. Rituals deal with magic items and summonings. It's a set of rules common to the 3 other magic systems, and not an independent system. Edited March 9, 2023 by Mugen Quote
dead Posted March 10, 2023 Author Posted March 10, 2023 Thanks so much for the clarification, guys. Now I know to avoid Basic Magic. Are the other two monographs on my list - Basic Creatures and Basic Gamemaster - also reprinted material from the 80s? Also, with Magic World, does that include a bestiary? I’m assuming it does if it’s meant to be a self-contained work. Is it true a creatures book was planned for Magic World but never went ahead? Quote
NickMiddleton Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 3 hours ago, dead said: Thanks so much for the clarification, guys. Now I know to avoid Basic Magic. Are the other two monographs on my list - Basic Creatures and Basic Gamemaster - also reprinted material from the 80s? Yes: they were the Creatures Book and Game Masters books from the previously mentioned Avalon Hill edition of RuneQuest. 3 hours ago, dead said: Also, with Magic World, does that include a bestiary? I’m assuming it does if it’s meant to be a self-contained work. Yes it does include an extensive bestiary chapter (also largely derived from the RQ Creatures book iirc). 3 hours ago, dead said: Is it true a creatures book was planned for Magic World but never went ahead? Yes. It reached draft manuscript stage but no further. Quote
Thaenor Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 23 hours ago, NickMiddleton said: 4) Magic World (2012) is indeed Elric! There are a few subtle revisions that are worth the trivial price of the PDF (a streamline version of cultures, some streamlining and clarifications in skills and combats). Also the spell list is somewhat consolidated to include various additions in other Elric! supplements but the Summoning and Binding systems that were core, and the whole sale new systems for Runes, Necromancy and others are NOT in the core Magic World (2012) book but in its single supplement, Advanced Sorcery. Both discontinued Chaosium products now. (MW and Advanced Sorcery.) Quote
Mugen Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 5 hours ago, dead said: Thanks so much for the clarification, guys. Now I know to avoid Basic Magic. Well, it's not a bad book by any means. But it has its own internal logic, which differs from other BRP magic systems. The Emphasis on "POWer" as a kind of "Super Magic Points" which you sacrifice to get higher form of Magic is very interesting. But it only really works if you use the rule which lets player gain POW with experience rolls. 5 hours ago, dead said: Are the other two monographs on my list - Basic Creatures and Basic Gamemaster - also reprinted material from the 80s? (...) Is it true a creatures book was planned for Magic World but never went ahead? Note that any creature book for RuneQuest 3 will be also good for BRP and Magic World, as all games from that time were very homogeneous. You might be surprised by different attack and parry scores for each weapon, relatively low Dodge skill (whose base was 05+ a small bonus) and localized hit points. But it's easy to ignore. You might also be disapppointed by the absence of standard creatures such as orcs, which were in another RQ book. Quote
Scotty Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 59 minutes ago, Thaenor said: Advanced Sorcery 1 hour ago, Thaenor said: Magic World both currently 30% off on Drivethru. Now $2.09 each (was $2.99) 4 Quote
Thaenor Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Scotty said: both currently 30% off on Drivethru. Now $2.09 each (was $2.99) EPIC news - I got my pdfs in a previous sale. I was more meaning Chaosium announced no further support for the titles. If you want them then go ahead while they are still available on DTRPG. From 2016 - Edited March 10, 2023 by Thaenor Quote
NickMiddleton Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) Note: Orcs ARE included in the Magic World bestiary chapter - and as Scotty helpfully points out, both Magic World and Advanced Sorcery ARE still available as PDFs from DriveThru for a very reasonable price. I've attached a text file listing all the creatures in the Magic World bestiary chapter FYI. MW Bestiary List.txt Edited March 10, 2023 by NickMiddleton 1 1 Quote
Thaenor Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 24 minutes ago, NickMiddleton said: Note: Orcs ARE included in the Magic World bestiary chapter - and as Scotty helpfully points out, both Magic World and Advanced Sorcery ARE still available as PDFs from DriveThru for a very reasonable price. I'm just glad BRP has gone PoD on DTRPG- thanks again Chaosium!! 🙂 Still yet to order my copy - but will be done in time. Quote
Mugen Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 56 minutes ago, NickMiddleton said: Note: Orcs ARE included in the Magic World bestiary chapter - and as Scotty helpfully points out, both Magic World and Advanced Sorcery ARE still available as PDFs from DriveThru for a very reasonable price. I've attached a text file listing all the creatures in the Magic World bestiary chapter FYI. MW Bestiary List.txt 762 B · 1 download That list sounds very familiar. It seems to me all creatures from RQ3 boxed set and Monster Coliseum have been included, along with a few others. With the exception of Elementals, of course, which are from Elric! and not RQ. Quote
NickMiddleton Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Thaenor said: I'm just glad BRP has gone PoD on DTRPG- thanks again Chaosium!! 🙂 Still yet to order my copy - but will be done in time. Very pleased to see the BGB available in PoD format. Given I have THREE copies already, not sure I can justify a 4th... I still dare to dream that Magic World might one day get a PoD release too - albeit I am fully aware that it's really NOT on Chaosium's priority list given all the much more high profile (and, lets be honest, commercially viable) titles in their production schedule. 1 hour ago, Mugen said: That list sounds very familiar. It seems to me all creatures from RQ3 boxed set and Monster Coliseum have been included, along with a few others. With the exception of Elementals, of course, which are from Elric! and not RQ. I'd have to look through ancient emails (if I still have them) but IIRC pretty much what Ben did when revising the Elric! to create Magic World was replace the very IP specific "Creatures" Chapter and "Natural Animals Table" from Elric! with the BRP Creatures / RQ3 Creatures Book material plus some stuff from the "Arena Monsters" chapter of the AH Monster Coliseum Monsters Book. So it still skews oddly "Ancient World / Classical Myth" (with a few standouts like the Chonchon) as a list of creatures for the ostensibly more "western European Celtic" feel Magic World was aiming form overall: the never released MW Bestiary project was intended in part to address that very issue. 1 Quote
Atgxtg Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 6 hours ago, Mugen said: The Emphasis on "POWer" as a kind of "Super Magic Points" which you sacrifice to get higher form of Magic is very interesting. But it only really works if you use the rule which lets player gain POW with experience rolls. Yes, but that was a key component to pretty much all of the magic systems, which in turn originated from RuneQuest. The basic concept of character improvement via experience rolls is fundamental to all BRP games. As the RuneQuest magic system originally only relied upon spells known and POW for magical skills, POW sort of had to be improvable, and all of the various magic systems become somewhat limited if POW ins't improvable in some way. I mean you pretty much can't play a Rune level character is RQ without it, progress very far as a Sorcerer in Stormbringer/Elric, etc. Call of Cthulhu is probably the exception since player characters are usually so overmatched it doesn't really matter if POW improves or not. Quote Chaos stalks my world, but she's a big girl and can take of herself.
Thaenor Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 4 hours ago, NickMiddleton said: I still dare to dream that Magic World might one day get a PoD release too - albeit I am fully aware that it's really NOT on Chaosium's priority list given all the much more high profile (and, lets be honest, commercially viable) titles in their production schedule. Yes, re Magic World going PoD. Something I'd like to see. Don't have a copy - will have to go to a local print shop for that I guess. Quote
Mugen Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 (edited) 5 hours ago, NickMiddleton said: I'd have to look through ancient emails (if I still have them) but IIRC pretty much what Ben did when revising the Elric! to create Magic World was replace the very IP specific "Creatures" Chapter and "Natural Animals Table" from Elric! with the BRP Creatures / RQ3 Creatures Book material plus some stuff from the "Arena Monsters" chapter of the AH Monster Coliseum Monsters Book. So it still skews oddly "Ancient World / Classical Myth" (with a few standouts like the Chonchon) as a list of creatures for the ostensibly more "western European Celtic" feel Magic World was aiming form overall: the never released MW Bestiary project was intended in part to address that very issue. To me, seeing a list with creatures like the Fachan, the Jabberwock, the various spirits and the cave troll immediately bring back memories of RQ3. Although there's one notable omission between Dragon and Dwarf. 😄 Edited March 10, 2023 by Mugen Quote
g33k Posted March 10, 2023 Posted March 10, 2023 On 3/8/2023 at 5:57 PM, dead said: - Monograph #0370 - Basic Magic (2009) - Monograph #0371 - Basic Creatures (2009) - Monograph #0372 - Basic Gamemaster (2009) Note that anything "Monograph" is getting hard to find. Chaosium has eliminated the "Monograph" line of products. Quote C'es ne pas un .sig
Agentorange Posted March 11, 2023 Posted March 11, 2023 18 hours ago, Mugen said: To me, seeing a list with creatures like the Fachan, the Jabberwock, the various spirits and the cave troll immediately bring back memories of RQ3. Although there's one notable omission between Dragon and Dwarf. 😄 Duergar ? 😁 Quote
MOB Posted March 11, 2023 Posted March 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Thaenor said: EPIC news - I got my pdfs in a previous sale. I was more meaning Chaosium announced no further support for the titles. If you want them then go ahead while they are still available on DTRPG. To be clear, we have no plans to take down Magic World from DTRPG. 21 hours ago, Thaenor said: Yes, re Magic World going PoD. Something I'd like to see. It is in fact on our (long) list of titles there that we will eventually get round to offering as POD. The latest being here: 5 Quote
Joerg Posted March 12, 2023 Posted March 12, 2023 12 hours ago, Agentorange said: Duergar ? 😁 Bipedal and unaging, yes, but coming in four (or five) stages of ever less neotenic maturity, and re-spawning again and again from the same dragon egg laid by an immature dragon. A standard in Japanese vanilla fantasy (although with less of this background): the dragonewt. Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis
Thaenor Posted March 12, 2023 Posted March 12, 2023 13 hours ago, MOB said: To be clear, we have no plans to take down Magic World from DTRPG. It is in fact on our (long) list of titles there that we will eventually get round to offering as POD. The latest being here: Thanks for this full clarification. Never intended to infer negative motives or talk Chaosium down. I really like MW and missed out on being able to get a physical copy years ago. Love the idea that a PoD option is being planned. So glad COC Classics are getting the PoD love too. Working towards budgeting for the BRP PoD book myself in fact now in a few days. So, kudos, and I wish you and your team at Chaosium well in processing the extensive list you all have to deal with to keep us supplied with physical books. I know there are stories of others being burned by PoD print and production quality of other games/titles etc and I'm sad for those folks but I've always found mine to be of good quality from OneShelf/DTRPG when they've arrived. And shipping to Australia has been reasonable for me. Not sure about pricing these days compared to 2020 re that but willing to pay for it to have Chaosium physical material that is unavailable to me directly from your warehouse(s). . (*Note to self* "Order RuneQuest H/C books SOON...." .lol 🙂) Quote
dead Posted March 12, 2023 Author Posted March 12, 2023 On 3/10/2023 at 5:46 PM, NickMiddleton said: Yes: they were the Creatures Book and Game Masters books from the previously mentioned Avalon Hill edition of RuneQuest. Yes it does include an extensive bestiary chapter (also largely derived from the RQ Creatures book iirc). Yes. It reached draft manuscript stage but no further. Thanks for the info. Well, I'm definitely going to try to track down Magic World. Then, after that, try to find a hard copy of the BGB (2011) and The Magic Book. 1 Quote
Mugen Posted March 12, 2023 Posted March 12, 2023 7 hours ago, Joerg said: Bipedal and unaging, yes, but coming in four (or five) stages of ever less neotenic maturity, and re-spawning again and again from the same dragon egg laid by an immature dragon. A standard in Japanese vanilla fantasy (although with less of this background): the dragonewt. 20 hours ago, Agentorange said: Duergar ? 😁 You seem to voluntarily duck the real answer... Quote
Agentorange Posted March 12, 2023 Posted March 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, Mugen said: You seem to voluntarily duck the real answer... Drider ? 😆 1 Quote
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