Why does Argrath wipe out the Telmori?

[jajagappa]

57 minutes ago, scott-martin said:

One question then might be how Jannisor's god differentiated as the wolves rose and fell . . . and what remains after centuries of lunar intervention.

Keep in mind that Jannisor's god is not Jajagappa. Jajagappa is associated with the DH, and later, Lunar underworld deities and was one of the figures to drag Jannisor to Hell after his defeat by the Twin Stars.

1 hour ago, hipsterinspace said:

That sounds more like Jajagappa than Telmor, he’s the psychopomp of the Solar pantheon. That would still be an interesting identification for would-be God Learners to try to make.

They certainly are not the same deities, but from an Orlanthi mythic perspective, both can be viewed as "Bad Dogs". 

[Rodney Dangerduck]

13 minutes ago, jajagappa said:

They certainly are not the same deities, but from an Orlanthi mythic perspective, both can be viewed as "Bad Dogs". 

The best reason to distrust Orlanthi is that they don't like dogs.  Reveals their inner character better than any myth.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

For the record, I came up with the reason for our version of Glorantha.  Argrath believes that the Telmori hold a key part of the Regalia of Sartar: the Jewel of Sartar.  Without it, he cannot light the Flame of Sartar and become Prince and do all his heroic stuff to come.  The Telmori rejected attempts by his inept diplomats to acquire it peacefully, and now war is coming. 

 

Our recent RQG campaign summary:

http://gloranthagame.pbworks.com/w/page/152480676/Storm Season 1627 Session 2

Edited March 25, 2023 by Rodney Dangerduck
typos

[Ian Cooper]

So I had a plan for this as part of the direction of events following the 11 Lights. It was intended as subsequent parts of that campaign.

It goes like this:

- Agrath needs to fulfill a prophecy that the Aurochs will return to Dragon Pass. "This was accomplished because Argrath had brought aurochs back to the land." (PS It's not clear what 'this' is though it seems to be about defeating the chaos hordes so perhaps it is help from Urox in some way, perhaps via awakening some powers of the Black Spear??)

- The Stealing of the Giant's Cows that the Red Cow clan perform is a quest to birth Aurochs. But they only get their famous Red Cows. Why? Because they cheat and go in through the back door.

The Cinsina cut a deal with Agrath. Kill the Telmori and we will take you on the Stealing of the Giant's Cows heroquest. Gather enough troops and we can avoid the 'cheat' and our cattle will birth aurochs. (Remember that those amongst the Red Cow who have done the quest are counted among the "Auroch Bringers").

Now, all the Sartarite heirs amongst the Telmori are dead (this happens in the 11L game - every Telmori heir dies - in case you missed it). So Argrath no longer risks kinstrife by killing the Telmori. He needs to fulfill the prophecy, so he does the deal with the Cinsina (and presumably other tribes of the Jonstown Confederation).

They murder the Telmori.

I imagine that the Wolfskinners, the Cinsina warband, form the core of the Wolfrunners after that.

One day I might get this all out via the JC, but this is where I was going with that campaign, in case it helps you.

 

 

Edited March 27, 2023 by Ian Cooper

[Ian Cooper]

Just now, Ian Cooper said:

So I had a plan for this as part of the direction of events following the 11 Lights. It was intended as subsequent parts of that campaign.

It goes like this:

- Agrath needs to fulfill a prophecy that the Aurochs will return to Dragon Pass. "This was accomplished because Argrath had brought aurochs back to the land." (PS It's not clear what 'this' is though it seems to be about defeating the chaos hordes so perhaps it is help from Urox in some way, perhaps via awakening some powers of the Black Spear??)

- The Stealing of the Giant's Cows that the Red Cow clan perform is a quest to birth Aurochs. But they only get their famous Red Cows. Why? Because they cheat and go in through the back door.

The Cinsina cut a deal with Agrath. Kill the Telmori and we will take you on the Stealing of the Giant's Cows heroquest. Gather enough troops and we can avoid the 'cheat' and our cattle will birth aurochs.

Now, all the Sartarite heirs amongst the Telmori are dead (this happens in the 11L game - every Telmori heir dies - in case you missed it). So Argrath no longer risks kinstrife by killing the Telmori. He needs to fulfill the prophecy, so he does the deal with the Cinsina (and presumably other tribes of the Jonstown Confederation).

They murder the Telmori.

I imagine that the Wolfskinners, the Cinsina warband, form the core of the Wolfrunners after that.

One day I might get this all out via the JC, but this is where I was going with that campaign, in case it helps you.

 

 

PS One aspect of the quest Argrath has to do, is that after driving out the giants, he has to hold "Red Cow Fort" on the heroplane against a counterattack, and it comes from the Red Broo (who get mentioned in the 11L as a possible Heroquest Suprise). I imagine it is a fairly brutal affair.

[Rodney Dangerduck]

@Ian Cooper  Interestingly, our timeline will also include stealing the Red Cows. but from the Cinsina.

Your concept that because all the Telmori heirs are dead, it's not "kinstrife" so it's legal for Argrath to order the killing of the other Telmori and wipeout an entire Tribe of Sartar, is very, well, cynical and somehow very Argrathy!

BTW, I haven't played 11L, who is it that kills off the Telmori heirs?  My inner cynic / conspiracy theorist thinks some of it is Argrath or his cronies.  🙂

[Ian Cooper]

17 hours ago, Rodney Dangerduck said:

@Ian Cooper  Interestingly, our timeline will also include stealing the Red Cows. but from the Cinsina.

Your concept that because all the Telmori heirs are dead, it's not "kinstrife" so it's legal for Argrath to order the killing of the other Telmori and wipeout an entire Tribe of Sartar, is very, well, cynical and somehow very Argrathy!

BTW, I haven't played 11L, who is it that kills off the Telmori heirs?  My inner cynic / conspiracy theorist thinks some of it is Argrath or his cronies.  🙂

Spoilers for 11L

Spoiler

So the line of Sartar is from Kostajor Wolf Champion to his grandsons (his daughter is dead) - the Helkos Brothers. Kostajor dies in 1620 (murdered by Jogar). One Duke Jomes kills in 1607 during the Wolf Hunt; one is Ostling, the Red Cow hostage, who dies at the hands of the PCs in 1620; one is Black Paws, he dies in 1620 at Wolf Stand; another is Jogar Sog, who leads the 1620 rebellion also dies at Wolf Stand; and finally Goram WhiteFang leader of the Telmori Royal Guard dies defending Temertain from Humakti assassins in 1624.

Ironically, Jogar raises his rebellion because he has a vision of a Sartarite liberator massacring the Telmori. By rising up, he seals the fate of Sartar's line, and thus enables Argrath to massacre the Telmori. You can't escape fate.

 

 

[Aelex]

On 3/14/2023 at 9:39 AM, David Scott said:

It starts in the lead up to the Battle of Heroes with the Telmori, plundering the herds when the chaos pincer movement starts, see KoS 2ed 19. I suspect that they were either in the pay of Jar-eel, or just did a stupid thing at a inopportune time.

The footnote says something about them all turning into wolves without wanting to. Is it referring to the general werewolf problem or does it actualy imply they go all wulf unintentionally in the lead up to the battle? 

So sad. Their duality kind of made them somehow loveable.

[David Scott]

26 minutes ago, Aelex said:

The footnote says something about them all turning into wolves without wanting to. Is it referring to the general werewolf problem or does it actualy imply they go all wulf unintentionally in the lead up to the battle? 

So sad. Their duality kind of made them somehow loveable.

This should help clarify:

Quote

Wolfbrothers

Known also as the Telmori, they are Gloranthan werewolves, and are commonly found with their wolf companions. Wolfbrothers are tainted by Chaos. Each Wildday, which happens to be the night of the Full Moon in Dragon Pass, each Telmori must change to their beast form and roam the countryside. Many Telmori possess Rune magic that allows them to assume wolf form on other occasions.

RQ Bestiary, Wolfbrothers, page 84

Edited March 18 by David Scott

[Ali the Helering]

There are no Telmori now.  Argrath was the big bad villain who brought about the end of the age. 

QED. Hail Harshax!