Weapons Damaging to Telmoris

[Zalain]

Hello all

i come back again with a pile of new questions!

This time is about Telmoris.

As Gloranthta´s bestiary say in Pg.85, Telmori are inmune to all damage excepting Enchanted rune metals, Magic, poison, and another Telmori.

Are they inmune to blunt weapons? Fire? Fallings?

When Human shaped Telmori transform into wolves, would  they do it in 4 legs wolf or 2 legs werewolf? Could they choose?

As "Because of their magical nature, one Wolfbrother can wound another", so their bite could be considerated themselves as "magical weapons" when attacking other creatures as Spirits, or

Are they conscient of their acts, when transforming on wildday nights? -they do instinctive acts instead of intelligence - (i wonder that they keep self-awarenes if transform using rune magic)

 

thank you in advance aaaand....

Happy and Merry Christmas everybody!

[soltakss]

29 minutes ago, Zalain said:

Are they inmune to blunt weapons? Fire? Fallings?

Yes, if they are non-magical.

29 minutes ago, Zalain said:

When Human shaped Telmori transform into wolves, would  they do it in 4 legs wolf or 2 legs werewolf? Could they choose?

I play that there is an intermediate form that Telmori can choose, like a humanoid wolf, the classic werewolf. Not all Telmori can choose that form. I also play that Transform Self allows Telmori to transform into a wolf and that the other Telmori spells enhance that form, otherwise it takes 8 points to turn into a wolf, which is rubbish.

33 minutes ago, Zalain said:

As "Because of their magical nature, one Wolfbrother can wound another", so their bite could be considerated themselves as "magical weapons" when attacking other creatures as Spirits, or

Yes, that's what I play.

33 minutes ago, Zalain said:

Are they conscient of their acts, when transforming on wildday nights? -they do instinctive acts instead of intelligence - (i wonder that they keep self-awarenes if transform using rune magic)

Maybe, I would say that they could match Instinct against Intellect to see which form wins (Maybe match Beast vs Man Runes).

[Runeblogger]

1 hour ago, Zalain said:

When Human shaped Telmori transform into wolves, would  they do it in 4 legs wolf or 2 legs werewolf? Could they choose?

If a Telmori casts only "Wolf's Head" and "Wolf's Fur", they become your usual two-legged werewolf. 🙂

1 hour ago, Zalain said:

As "Because of their magical nature, one Wolfbrother can wound another", so their bite could be considerated themselves as "magical weapons" when attacking other creatures as Spirits, or

I would say they can hurt one another, but they can't hurt spirits with their fangs.

1 hour ago, Zalain said:

Are they conscient of their acts, when transforming on wildday nights? -they do instinctive acts instead of intelligence - (i wonder that they keep self-awarenes if transform using rune magic)

Jeff Richards clarified that Telmori in wolf form are unintelligent beasts like "very clever dogs" , so they won't attack anyone they feel Loyalty for. https://wellofdaliath.chaosium.com/the-telmori/

Happy Holidays!

Edited December 23, 2023 by Runeblogger

[Scotty]

See 2.9 Wolfbrothers in the Q&A

[Zalain]

hello all, again

 

i got a new question about telmoris, weapons and transformations:

could a telmori have an involuntary transformation, a different day of Wild-Day?  Could his taint chaos indice that transformation? Or maybe be the Red Moon glow (being inside of the Lunar Empire frontiers ro too close of the Crimsom Bat ??

How to use A short Detour guide in this case?

 

Quote

PG85: Glorantha Bestiary:  Their Chaotic nature gives them their abilities of involuntary shape change and...

Does this refer to the involuntary transformation on wold day ONLY? or could a telmori transform in the other cases wroten before?

 

thank you in advance!!!

 

 

Edited January 11 by Zalain

[Brian Duguid]

Paging @Lordabdul for your question about A Short Detour.

The Red Moon Glow is unrelated to the transformation, which is a curse. I personally believe that technically, the invulnerability and the ability to change for long periods was the Chaotic gift of Nysalor; and that the "involuntary" nature of this was the curse of Talor, as per various sources on the history of the Telmori. The gift and curse both date back to well before the rise of the Red Moon into the air. You could make that link now - but there's nothing inherent in the official publications to back it up.

Also note that Telmori can transform through the use of Rune magic - they are not limited to the involuntary once-a-week change.

[Zalain]

On 12/23/2023 at 10:11 PM, Zalain said:

As Gloranthta´s bestiary say in Pg.85, Telmori are inmune to all damage excepting Enchanted rune metals, Magic, poison, and another Telmori.

Are they inmune to blunt weapons? Fire? Fallings?

On 12/23/2023 at 10:46 PM, soltakss said:

Yes, if they are non-magical

So, if a Telmori falls from a ridge, cliff, etc... or a tall tower to the ground, he/she would get up as nothing?

[Rodney Dangerduck]

1 hour ago, Zalain said:

So, if a Telmori falls from a ridge, cliff, etc... or a tall tower to the ground, he/she would get up as nothing?

At first I was going to say that's silly, of course the fall hurts.

But, jumping off tall buildings didn't hurt Kate Beckensale.  Yeah, she was a vampire, not a werewolf.  Still applies.  If you want awesome, cinematic Telmori, those falls may stun them, but no lasting damage.

[French Desperate WindChild]

On 1/11/2024 at 8:24 PM, Zalain said:

i got a new question about telmoris, weapons and transformations:

could a telmori have an involuntary transformation, a different day of Wild-Day?  Could his taint chaos indice that transformation? Or maybe be the Red Moon glow (being inside of the Lunar Empire frontiers ro too close of the Crimsom Bat ??

imo everything is possible with chaos

But in our case it sgould be an exception, so you may meet 1 telmori like that. And of course (for me) if it is exceptional, it is not normal, if it is not normal, it is clearly tainted (in the aura, in the eyes, something.. different, disturbing or even disgusting). A taint that the other telmori may feel naturaly: "(s)he is not like us, the smell maybe, etc..." and of course the night transformation. That does not mean any reject (as usual some would dislike her/his) because the pack/tribe has interest to have some when everybody is transformed into (I would say)

 

Now, if it is for a pc, I would be a little bit reluctant, and at least ask a good background, how the pc get this taint ? Were the parent worshipping some weird spirit (ex nysalor's fan ?) and did they offer the cub in some religious activity  ? Were they willing (in that case what did they try ? to gain more power transformation or to clean the curse ?) or abused by the spirit ("no no I m just a wolf spirit, not a chaotic one, gnark gnark gnark"). Or was the pc (player-cub) captured by any philosopher or ogre or priest of spme cult who tried some experience ?

In fact even for a npc I would try to find a reason (yes I know, chaos does not need at all any reason 🙂 )

[Scotty]

13 hours ago, Zalain said:

So, if a Telmori falls from a ridge, cliff, etc... or a tall tower to the ground, he/she would get up as nothing?

No, see Wolfbrothers 2.9.6 Real Fire, Rocks and falling Damage in the Q&A.

[Squaredeal Sten]

On 12/23/2023 at 3:11 PM, Zalain said:

Hello all

i come back again with a pile of new questions!

This time is about Telmoris.

As Gloranthta´s bestiary say in Pg.85, Telmori are inmune to all damage excepting Enchanted rune metals, Magic, poison, and another Telmori.

Are they inmune to blunt weapons? Fire? Fallings?....

My answer is different; That is not actually what the Bestiary says.  It says something less sweeping: P.85 right column first full paragraph:

"In wolf shape, the Wolfbrothers are immune to the effects of bronze weapons, which ounce off their hides. Only enchanted rune metals can harm them, as well as magic."

Immune to bronze weapons.  That is rather specific, and the whole passage deals with metal weapons.  As i read it they are not immune to falls, to fire (and in the next sentence it specifically says not to fireblade on a bronze weapon), not immune to falling or drowning or being strangled with a rope.   And most relevant, not immune to non-metal weapons, so you can beat one to death with a wooden quarterstaff. 

So in your Glorantha you can expand it to resemble movie werewolves if you want.  But that is not Chaosium's werewolves, and it will cause problems when playing through Chaosium's or other people's adventures.

 

Edited March 13 by Squaredeal Sten
Copied the passage from Bestiary

[Zalain]

On 3/3/2024 at 10:33 AM, French Desperate WindChild said:

In fact even for a npc I would try to find a reason (yes I know, chaos does not need at all any reason 🙂 )

In my Hunter (follower of foundchild) player background i told him he never knew his mother and his father never talked about her.

In the campaign, the group of adventurers succesfully evacuated a town from an Crimsom Bat (and its followers) attack.

(Well, some villagers were rapped or eaten by the demon, but not enought to make it to stay, so it had to leave to another place to satisfy its hunger).

But the red glow affected this hunter in some way. He began having nightmares with wolves, red moon, blood. And after several games, he suddenly transformed in a "out of control werewolf".

He doesnt know: His mother was a telmori who couldn't take care of his child. So this character had a sleeping chaos that suddenly woke up.

Here is where "A short Detour" book comes into game. That character is a werewolf, not a telmori, he doesnt know how to handle the chaos in him. And he is trying to understand what is happening.

On 3/3/2024 at 12:02 PM, Scotty said:

No, see Wolfbrothers 2.9.6 Real Fire, Rocks and falling Damage in the Q&A.

 

On 3/3/2024 at 2:02 PM, Squaredeal Sten said:

My answer is different; That is not actually what the Bestiary says.  It says something less sweeping: P.85 right column first full paragraph:

 

 

Just an idea im having about is the Telmoris skin in wolf (or half-wolf) shape are like a "bulletproof fullbody vest".

They will avoid lots of damage from slash or impalant. But still can be damaged by some blunt damage.

In game terms, the non runic weapon cant damage them, but they could get the FUE+TAM damage modifier from the attacker... And could be affected by the push.

Thrown weapons could still affect them (because they have half of damage modifier), but not projectile weapons (bows, sling, crossbow).

As i said, just an idea. Happy to read your opinions.

[Akhôrahil]

On 3/3/2024 at 12:02 PM, Scotty said:

No, see Wolfbrothers 2.9.6 Real Fire, Rocks and falling Damage in the Q&A.

I find it… odd… that a rock falling naturally on a Telmori will hurt it, while a rock thrown as a weapon won’t. I guess that’s magic for you.

I would personally also consider claws formed by Rune Magic as (Rune) magical for purposes of hurting stuff, and I do run it as a house rule in my game.

Edited March 5 by Akhôrahil

[Rodney Dangerduck]

21 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

On 3/3/2024 at 3:02 AM, Scotty said:

No, see Wolfbrothers 2.9.6 Real Fire, Rocks and falling Damage in the Q&A.

I find it… odd… that a rock falling naturally on a Telmori will hurt it, while a rock thrown as a weapon won’t. I guess that’s magic for you.

Not only is there no physics in Glorantha, there is no logic.

[soltakss]

On 3/2/2024 at 9:55 PM, Zalain said:

On 12/23/2023 at 9:46 PM, soltakss said:

Yes, if they are non-magical

So, if a Telmori falls from a ridge, cliff, etc... or a tall tower to the ground, he/she would get up as nothing?

Yes, in my game, no according to David Scott.

 

[Geoff R Evil]

This is definitely one of those issues where out of game concepts like werewolves have influenced in game abilities, without being clear what the implications are.

As @Squaredeal Sten says the rule says immunity to bronze weapons…but it also says only damaged by enchanted weapons and magic, but not fire blade. Also follow on rules state natural damage still hurts the creature.

So for me, given that PCs should not be metagaming werewolf knowledge this is all good. They are not knowledgeable of Telmori. They MIGHT have heard fireside stories of weapon immunity, the MIGHT have heard of a drowned Telmori, or one dying after falling off a cliff. 
Telmori are generally wild ill equipped hunters. The weapon immunity is their main strength that strikes fear when met in combat, especially for the first time.

Does a mace cause damage….well good question, if it’s made of bronze, no, but wood yes? Seems weird. I like the idea crushing weapons do damage because they don’t break the magical skin to do damage. But then if you have ever been hit by a dull sword, you know that hurts like hell too. I like RQs combat realism in my games. 
So in my Glorantha I will decide as follows

All crushing weapons do normal damage

all non enchanted slashing weapons do half damage and do not ever cut the skin…so no con rolls on a slash result, but half damage rolled twice

all non enchanted piercing weapons, half damage, no skin break, cannot impale. Impale is half damage rolled twice.

This leaves effects of blade sharp or speed dart to consider, and this is harder to resolve. In theory the magic can break the telmori skin. So does that mean the slashing or piercing damage can now follow thru? I think no if bronze, so no change to the above rules. If wooden or flint…still no, it’s not enchanted ….I realise that’s a bit weird when allowing natural damage….but hey nothings perfect.