glarkhag Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Although I've played RQ since 2nd edition I never played or GM'd Rainbow Mounds until now! I want to check something because I must have misunderstood the intent. Fighting rat packs... It states that if you hit you have number of packs x5% chance of doing enough damage to kill a pack. Example given of five packs and 25%. This percentage is also the chance of being hit by the packs. So if you have 1 pack of rats, you roll to hit (let's say 50% to hit) and if successful you now have 1 x5% chance of killing the pack? So broadly 2.5% chance of killing the pack per round ... Have I misunderstood or is this going to be a dice rolling pergatory? I would have thought a few HPs per pack would have been neater...but perhaps I have missed the spirit if not the RAW of this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 53 minutes ago, glarkhag said: Although I've played RQ since 2nd edition I never played or GM'd Rainbow Mounds until now! I want to check something because I must have misunderstood the intent. Fighting rat packs... Let's say an adventurer is facing 5 packs (so you tell the player about 35 rats). so 25% is the "kill" number (remember some die, most run away) The adventurer then strikes the pack with their weapon, if they succeed they roll again and if they get the "kill" number or less, a single rat pack is removed. Eg. Bob strikes with his sword and hits, then rolls 17 for the kill, and one pack is now gone. The Rats now get a go (attacking last). 4 packs is a 20% chance and they miss. now repeat. The more rats there are, the greater the chance of reducing their number, and the less, it's much harder to get rid of them. Fighting rat packs is very frustrating as they just get out of the way of weapons. Spoiler Be aware that in some locations, the adventurers are on their hands and knees or are flat on the ground! My players quickly left the rat areas after the Lhankor Mhy succeeded in their animal lore roll and they became worried about disease (two were bitten). They later returned and used their burning torches instead of weapons for which I gave them a +20% bonus on the kill roll (rats really don't like fire they decided). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glarkhag Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 (edited) So one pack is indeed 5% and killing the last pack could take 20 melee rounds (or more) if they have 100% attack. That's pretty tedious. If fighting them is not really the intention why not provide mechanics for what is intended? Edited January 25 by glarkhag 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 5 minutes ago, glarkhag said: So one pack is indeed 5% and killing the last pack could take 20 melee rounds (or more). That's pretty tedious. Time for those "Disrupt" or even "Ignite" spells. 2 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glarkhag Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Yeah ignite sounded good until a character was smothered with burning rats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glarkhag Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 And disrupt would still only have 5% chance of killing the last pack... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozbat Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 Had they not just thought of hiring Rentokil? Or the Pied Piper of Hamelin? some well laid traps or a quick tune on the pipes… no rat packs! QED 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 1 hour ago, glarkhag said: And disrupt would still only have 5% chance of killing the last pack... If the pack has 7 individuals, I would have allowed it to disperse after five to nine uses of the spell, each use leaving an individual squealing in pain or dead. Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Desperate WindChild Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 4 hours ago, glarkhag said: So one pack is indeed 5% and killing the last pack could take 20 melee rounds (or more) if they have 100% attack or the rats-gm may decide after a time that the fight is enough and they flee. After all, ennemies don't fight until death all the time. that could be because a noise (does someone bigger approach ?) too much blood, or any reasons when it starts to be boring... do what you want/need 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 23 minutes ago, French Desperate WindChild said: that could be because a noise (does someone bigger approach ?) Suddenly the rats pause in their attack, sit up at attention or sniff the air, and then scurry away and quickly vanish.... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zit Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 It is just that killing rat packs with a sword is not the right way to do, like digging a tunnel with a spoon or trying to destroy a mosquitos swarm wirth a hammer. It is perfectly consistant and players shall acknowledge it and find another way. 4 Quote Wind on the Steppes, role playing among the steppe Nomads. The running campaign and the blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Absentia Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 (edited) 6 hours ago, glarkhag said: If fighting them is not really the intention why not provide mechanics for what is intended? See Scotty's comments above. You're right, encounters with packs/swarms can be incredibly frustrating -- the mechanics demonstrate that admirably. The solution is to find another way through or around based on options available to the current adventuring group. Some of those options don't even require specific mechanics. I haven't read the scenario in question, so perhaps the frustration is that other options aren't suggested to the GM, such as the point at which the rat packs will be demoralised and run away. !i! Edited January 25 by Ian Absentia 1 Quote ...developer of White Rabbit Green Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zit Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 6 hours ago, glarkhag said: If fighting them is not really the intention why not provide mechanics for what is intended? Unless the intention is to leave it to the players imagination. May be the text should have explicited this (but it is an old school scenario). You don't have to fight them, you can just crawl through them, counting on your armour or protection spell. Sword fighting is seldom the only option and very often even the worst one. 4 hours ago, Joerg said: If the pack has 7 individuals, I would have allowed it to disperse after five to nine uses of the spell, In the scenario, it is written that killing one rat disperses the whole pack. So using Disruption is a good solution. It is a spell widely used to hunt small preys or fight small pest. 2 Quote Wind on the Steppes, role playing among the steppe Nomads. The running campaign and the blog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nozbat Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 3 hours ago, jajagappa said: Suddenly the rats pause in their attack, sit up at attention or sniff the air, and then scurry away and quickly vanish.... I think that would freak my players out more than having to deal with rat packs... love it 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g33k Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 16 hours ago, glarkhag said: Yeah ignite sounded good until a character was smothered with burning rats... I wouldn't expect a rat who's on fire to have *ANY* agenda besides finding the nearest water to dive-into or roll-around-in, and *ZERO* willingness to return to the scene... YGWV. 1 Quote C'es ne pas un .sig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glarkhag Posted January 26 Author Share Posted January 26 10 hours ago, Zit said: In the scenario, it is written that killing one rat disperses the whole pack. So using Disruption is a good solution. It is a spell widely used to hunt small preys or fight small pest. yes, except it give no mechanics for how many points of damage to do with disruption to make a pack disperse. For me giving mechanics for something that could take as much as 200 dice rolls to resolve is leading the GM down the garden path. and that for me is the point - I've been roleplaying for long enough and have enough experience in the RW to improvise or polish rules, override mechanics that just don't work etc, or to offer my players suggestions and assorted mcguffins. I'm not here for tips on how to play. I was exploring whether this was bad rules or I missed something. However, Rainbow Mounds is an introductory adventure. We could have a first time GM running it for first time players. Yes, it's old school (or lazy depending on your perspective). I love this game/world to death and I think this version is the best ever. I'd still like to see the RQ writing community walk in the shoes of a newbie more often though. It's easy to forget how much we "old-timers" know about RQ, Glorantha and RPG in general. And also there is a lot of collective knowledge of RW history and mythology etc in the community and I suspect most players and GMs don't have that wealth of background information to tap into. Newbie GMs don't need help understanding the genealogy of the Lightbringers (well they do but...); they need help with how everyday adventuring things work. And the problem is a lot of game mechanics actually don't make sense (to people who live on Earth) so it makes it difficult to understand if there is some esoteric basis underpinning it or it's just poor mechanics. And for me this is an example of poor mechanics. Why go to the trouble of making up some rules that you really don't expect people to follow through with? And if you expect them to be followed through why haven't you modelled out the possible outcomes. and if you have modelled out all the possible outcomes how can you think this rule was MGF? RHetorical questions, I hope I don't have to point out - but the fact I am pointing it out speaks volumes. 😉 There have been some great little explanations of things on Well of Daliath or Facebook or the various forums but they're not particularly accessible mid-game. Not always especially accessible pre-game but hey ho. Maybe someone could develop an app that scrapes all the various forums into one place? Generative AI I suspect will help us out with that soon enough. Anyone tried writing game mechanics with ChatGPT? Oh, wait you already did? 😁 Oh, and heroquesting... We could all use a little help with the mechanics of that. Even if it's just some basic mechanic principles to get us launched (crossing over)- but that is another thread entirely 😁... maybe tomorrow. And seriously, I don't need any tips on this - we're a long way away from serious heroquesting in my campaign. I've deliberately started with 16 year old characters in the hope that heroquesting rules get published before they die of old age, I mean before they get serious about heroquesting. Although it does sound promising that 2024 could be the year that we see mechanics for Heroquesting in Runequest. 🤞. PS. I am available for playtesting mechanics if anyone is up for some equal measures of robust scrutiny and pedantry. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotty Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 1 hour ago, glarkhag said: yes, except it give no mechanics for how many points of damage to do with disruption to make a pack disperse. For me giving mechanics for something that could take as much as 200 dice rolls to resolve is leading the GM down the garden path. One disruption would get one "kill" roll. The rats are a nuisance, I'd never expect a group to try and eliminated all of the packs, as most will just run off and regroup. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joerg Posted January 26 Share Posted January 26 31 minutes ago, Scotty said: I'd never expect a group to try and eliminated all of the packs, as most will just run off and regroup. If I learned one thing in my four decades as a GM it is never to expect sense or sensible decisions from players. 2 3 Quote Telling how it is excessive verbis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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