Revised Movement Rules

[Evilschemer]

I'm not happy with how the movement rules are presented in the BGB.

As I'm sure you know, the BGB rules are:

On your DEX Rank, if you want to move you can:

Move 1-5m and attack immediately on the same DEX Rank.

Move 6-15m on your DEX Rank, then attack later at half your DEX Rank.

Move 16-29m on your DEX Rank, then attack later at one-quarter your DEX Rank. Equivalent to a charge.

Move 30m on your DEX Rank and take no other action. Equivalent to a sprint.

However, I think there are two things wrong with these rules. 1) everyone will run 29m, who will run 30m? There’s no real benefit. Plus, it doesn’t mesh well with the character’s MOVE stat, or a 2m combat grid or even a 3m combat grid, and I prefer a 2m combat grid.

So I’ve added a minor house-rule in my campaign to address these issues. If these rules sound kind of D&D 4E-ish, its because it's what my group is used to and it's designed to mesh with the BGB's MOV stat.

Move 1 square and attack immediately on the same DEX Rank.

Move 2-5 squares on your DEX Rank, then attack later at half your DEX Rank (round up).

Move 6-10 squares on your DEX Rank, then attack later at one-quarter your DEX Rank (round up). Equivalent to a charge.

Move 11-15 squares on your DEX Rank and take no other action. Equivalent to a sprint or “run+run”.

For Example, if your DEX Rank was 15,

You can move 1 square and attack on 15.

You can move 2-5 squares on 15 and attack on 8.

You can move 6-10 squares on 15 and attack on 4.

You can move 11-15 squares on 15 and take no other action.

1 square = 2m, which is appropriate scale for most battle-maps and minis.

The above house-rule preserves the multiple initiative structure of the original rules, groups them into more manageable chunks of 5, and caps “run and act” high enough to make it worthwhile, but low enough to give a reason to sprint. It also manages to preserve the max movement = 30m of the original rules.

Edited February 8, 2012 by Trifletraxor
Removed the publication post icon

[Eric L. Webb]

My group is big into minatures and does not like to book keep. We did something similar with the movement rules except even simpler. We basicly just took d&d 3rd edition rules and tacked it onto BRP's MOV statistic. On DEX rank you can move half your MOV and attack. MOV 10 can move 5 spaces and still attack. Anything over that and you cant attack. Unless your running and gunning or charging. Etc. Its all house rules when it comes to movement in combat.

[Skunkape]

I like both of your house rules Evilschemer & eric71. Much easier to handle.

[RosenMcStern]

Except that...

...it does not really work this way.

Assigning a DEX rank to movement is a heritage of RQ2/3, where the system was more detailed, and it was very, very easy to get carried off by the mechanics.

I fail to see any point in the rules where it states that you move on your DEX rank, and then do other stuff on other DEX ranks according to how far you moved.

How I interpret the rules is:

a) everyone performs Statement of Intent, specifying how far he will move and how many non-combat related actions he will perform before fighting; then he writes down the final, modified DEX rank (or Strike Rank) at which he will act;

using the modified DEX rank order, everyone gets to act at the appropriate moment, with movement and combat happening at the same time; the only exception to this is multiple attacks that take place on different DEX ranks

The core concept in all this (it is really something that has to "click" in your mind) is that DEX ranks are not sub-turns: they are just a way to determine initiative. What really counts is what you said at Statement of Intent, and you should always try and stick to what was declared at that time. No - and I stress, NO - making decisions on individual DEX ranks: when your moment comes, you do what you planned, period. And this takes place between your DEX rank, and DEX rank 0, not just on your DEX rank.

Splitting movement and combat between DEX ranks, combined with grid use, easily gives rise to the "each DEX rank is a a turn" syndrome. Which is something you should avoid in BRP.

[Evilschemer]

Re-reading the combat round rules, I just realized something.

RAW, you go..

1. Everyone declares statement of intent.

2. Everyone moves in order of DEX rank.

3. Everyone acts in order of DEX rank (modified by movement).

4. Resolution (does that mean everyone rolls actions, THEN everyone rolls damage?).

That's way too complicated.

In my house rules, I'm eliminating Statement of Intent and I'm combining movement and actions and resolution.

[rust]

In my house rules, I'm eliminating Statement of Intent and I'm combining movement and actions and resolution.

A potential problem with this approach is that it tends to turn slow characters

into fast ones, because those acting last can observe the actions of all other

characters and then decide how to react to them. They no longer act accor-

ding to the situation at the beginning of the scene, they now act according to

the situation near the end of the scene, with the knowledge of the actions of

all other characters, and have the "final word" in the scene.

[RosenMcStern]

2. Everyone moves in order of DEX rank.

Where is this written in the rules? I cannot find any paragraph saying that you move on a DEX rank and fight on another.

In my house rules, I'm eliminating Statement of Intent and I'm combining movement and actions and resolution.

This is the same comment already made by Daddystabz in June.

Nothing wrong in doing so, but this is not how BRP is supposed to work. As rust pointed out, this will immediately create a bunch of contradictions that will erode the realism of the game.

Furthermore, this will make your game IMPOSSIBLY slow, because instead of one round of statement and one of execution, you will have several painstakingly slow sessions of "okay, let us check whether I can do this action or whether the goblin that acts after me and is not bound by Statement of Intent will take advantage of my movement to stab me without me being able to do anything about it".

Example: you are Ultra-fast warrior and it is your turn to act. You move 40 m to get close to Beautiful Damsel in Distress. However, if there is any trajectory that allows him to reach the final point you reach by moving only 29m, Slow Stupid Ork will jump at you and turn his clumsiness into an advantage, as he can hit you and you cannot parry, and none of your friends can approach and retaliate because they have already acted! Apart from the unrealism, this means that every player turn becomes a sluggish session of "Okay, Goblin 1 cannot reach me if I move 14m, but - oh, duck! Goblin 2 can so I must move another direction, hmm, let's see if I can go this way without being intercepted by Goblin 3, but will someone support me? Bill, is your character gonna come this way, too, on the next DEX rank?" - possibly when the GM has already decided that all the goblins are going to flee, but you do not know.

Believe it or not, 30 years of BRP experience reveal one simple truth: if well handled, Statement of Intent accelerates play, because it eliminates the necessity of checking every possible action available to your opponents at the moment you carry out your action. Just try and "play by the book": everybody says what he does, then everybody does it. No re-thinking or "I actually meant that in case the Goblin came close I was gonna hit him". It plays as fastk as lightning. The only trick to remember is to nail down the DEX rank you act (and I mean "act and move") during statement of intent, and then NOTHING can change it.

[seneschal]

The whole DEX ranks/Strike Ranks thing reminds me of Hero System's Speed Chart, where higher DEX characters usually act first and (frequently) get more opportunities to act during a 12-phase turn. And in Hero System, a character can move up to half his movement rate and still attack -- unless he's using a full move to do a special maneuver.

[frogspawner]

1. Everyone declares statement of intent.

2. Everyone moves in order of DEX rank.

3. Everyone acts in order of DEX rank (modified by movement).

4. Resolution (does that mean everyone rolls actions, THEN everyone rolls damage?).

Where is this written in the rules? I cannot find any paragraph saying that you move on a DEX rank and fight on another.

That's the version given in the BRP Quick Start rules - which doesn't match The Book.

In the Book, 2 is the "Power Phase" where spells etc are cast... on INT Rank - yet another unnecessary complication.

(The Quick Start doesn't have magic/powers, so I guess a 'Move Phase' was thoughtlessly bunged in as a placeholder).

I reckon "Resolution" just means bookkeeping stuff - like, if your character's not been healed above 0hp by now, it falls down dead.

But I agree the whole thing is too complex, and Statement Of Intent should be dropped in favour of D&D-style moves and actions on initiative. It doesn't favour low-initiative characters too much, since the high-initiativers will get to react to the situation just the same when the next round comes...

[Dredj]

I'm making a come back to BRP after playing with systems such as Fate and other rules-lite systems. If I were going to worry about movement, I would take my inspiration from the rules-lite systems and simply use zones. Is the zone close, medium or far from the PC? Can the PC with his or her DEX rating be able to make it to the other zone and reasonably be able to do an action? Then add the modifiers as necessary. And I think I would modify the vehicles chase rules to fit chases on foot (I'll have to look at those rules again). Unless, of course, you are using miniatures and want to play very strategically. The movement rules in BRP never really gelled with me. It was one of the more notable reasons that I moved away from BRP in the first place. It seemed like too much of the system was tied to character movement whose rules never seemed too realistic.

Also, I'm dropping BRP's notions of how much time a combat round takes. I'll just use 1-6 seconds as the standard amount of time an action takes--or however long it needs to be in non-combat situations. 12 second combat rounds always seemed way too long. I've been into some serious real-life (actual life and death) fights, and nowhere in my personal experience does the combat rules in BRP come close to the reality of the fights I've been in.

But rereading your post again suggests you are thinking about using miniatures, and you want to play very strategic games, right?

Edited January 25, 2012 by Dredj

[soltakss]

Does Statement of Intent depend on DEX? We always went around the table to get Statements of Intent, then used Strike Ranks (or DEX Ranks) to action them.

So, once everyone has stated what they are going to do, the GM would call out Strike Ranks in ascending order or DEX Ranks in descending order and anyone who wanted to do something would call out when his number was reached. We use RQ3-style Strike Ranks/Movement, so movement is easy for us (if you were moving you carry on at 3m/SR, if you started moving then you start on your DEX SR, for as many SRs as you want to move) and movement simply delays any combat action. We don't use Movement as an action in itself. But, there again, we like a fluid game rather than one which stops and starts all the time.

[Evilschemer]

Okay, I've got my BGB out now. I'm not relying on the quickstart ruleset.

BGB does, indeed, combine movement and actions into Actions, it was split up in the quickstart.

BGB page 188, "Statemetns of intent shoudl be handled in order of the DEX characteristic of all involved characters..."

Of course, the same page has the option for eliminating or reversing statment of intent, which is how my group has always played and is much more natural for them.

Re-reading the Move section again on page 190, I may have misinterpreted moving and acting as happening on different DEX ranks.

However, I'm not going to use my house rule idea. I'll just go with the simpler idea of not modifying initiative by movement at all.

[Mankcam]

I tend to use the old RQ3 Strike Rank system as well, I have actually returned to it after using the BRP/CoC/SB DEX Rank system and numerous other initiative systems from other games. Best to stick with the original, it works well for our fantasy setting.

It is often perceived as a 'clunky' old way of doing initiative, but in reality I don't find it is so. Everyone knows what strike rank they are acting upon (often more than once in a melee round for quick/unencumbered characters), and organising who is doing what during the 'Statement of Intent' phase is a good idea. Sure it initially slows down the narrative (briefly), but once the melee round kicks off it all goes very smoothly and surprisingly quickly.

As Simon previously stated, movement isn't a hassle either, the whole 3m/SR thing for humans puts it easily in perspective how much ground someone has covered at a particular time within the melee round. The book keeping isn't a big issue at all, especially if you have a grid drawn up with the pcs/npcs names in columns, with the numbers 1-10 running down the page, you just jot down where people are acting and it works like clockwork during the melee round.

I also like the fact that it isn't solely DEX based, but takes into consideration DEX, SIZ, Weapon size/length, and Armour worn ( I used an amended version of the MRQ2/LEGEND rules to take Armour into account, but in SR scale). This is all recorded as a 'Melee SRM' score on the character sheet, so it is actually quick to know when you'll be acting in the actual melee round. Just as quick as rolling d10 + DEX in my opinion (although that is not a bad option for modern/pulp settings, but doesn't cut the cheese for me when playing in ancient/medieval settings).

Players from other game systems have noted how they like the Strike Rank system, and are often quite surprised when I show them that it came from a game published in the mid-80s, they tend to think it is innovative. In any case it is actually very simple in game play itself, and movement hasn't been an issue for me with this system.

Edited January 26, 2012 by Mankcam

[DreadDomain]

On the HERO Games forums someone asked about what would be HERO gamers second choice to run a super game (obviously assuming their first choice would be Champions). My answer to that would be either GURPS Supers (published 2010) or Superworld (published 1983!). It got me to open the Superworld PDF and remember that I liked the Action Rank system. I am sure you already know about it but a quick recap in a nutshell is everyone gets an action at DEX, DEX-10, DEX-20 and so forth until they reach 0 or lower. Actions are divided according to how long they take to achieve; the whole melee round (taking all your Action ranks), a full action (1 AR), a semi-action (that can be mixed with a quarter-action), a quarter action (that can be mixed with a semi-action or another quarter-action) and instantaneous.

In that system, melee round movement is divided by action rank so if a character can fly 600m/mr and he has 3 AR, he can, as a full action fly 200m, 100m as a semi-action* or 40m as a quarter-action.

*I just scanned in the book and I can't find the place where I got this number though. It might be more logical if a semi-action would be up to 150m (75%) and a quarter-action up to 50 (25%)

Edited January 28, 2012 by DreadDomain

[ragr]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but I've been inspired by this, and Rosen's comments in particular. I'm planning on including Statements of Intent for my game where, in the past I've tended to go with a declare before you act, probably because I've come from a D&D background.

I have one question for the experienced BRP'ers. The GM is also bound by SOI for the npcs/bad guys, but when, if ever is it okay for the GM to be evasive or non-comittal about the bad guy's intent?

[rust]

I have one question for the experienced BRP'ers. The GM is also bound by SOI for the npcs/bad guys, but when, if ever is it okay for the GM to be evasive or non-comittal about the bad guy's intent?

The BRP rules, page 189, have this:

The gamemaster is not required to state how non-player characters

will act in a round ...

The way I handle it, I inform the players only about those actions of

the non-player characters which their characters can know about or

reasonably expect.

[ragr]

Sound like common sense to me. Cheers, rust.