Ralian Orlanthi

[Ironwall]

So where do the Ralian Orlanthi come from Mythically. Additionally what are the religious and cultural differences from the more known Heortling Orlanthi.

[metcalph]

8 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

So where do the Ralian Orlanthi come from Mythically. Additionally what are the religious and cultural differences from the more known Heortling Orlanthi.

There's two waves.

The first wave was from the Vingkotlings in the Storm Age who liberated the locals from the Dwarves.  They are now the Safelstrans.

The second wave was historical during the World Council period and settled both the north and west.  They are now the people of Lankst and Delela.  There's been speculation that the Lankst and Delelans have differences between themselves but I think that's largely from the natives they loved among.

 

[Akhôrahil]

I desperately tried to find what languages the Ralian Orlanthi speak, without success (even after writing to ask Jonas Schiött).

Anyone have any thoughts there? How many different languages between them (and what names - I was just boring and went with Lanksting and Delelan), related in what ways to the Central Genertelan ones, do they originate in Stormspeech the same way?

[Joerg]

19 minutes ago, Ironwall said:

So where do the Ralian Orlanthi come from Mythically. Additionally what are the religious and cultural differences from the more known Heortling Orlanthi.

 

During the Vingkotling Age, most of Ralios was part of the Greatwood, which received a famous counter-raid visit by the Thunder Brothers called the Plundering of Aron, so I doubt there were many if any Vingkotling settlements in Ralios.

THe majority of the Ralians following the Orlanthi creed in the Third Age would be descendants of the Dawn Age population of Ralios, which were Serpent Brotherhood Hykimi and the agriculturalist Enerali horse totem people of Safelster (which extended all the way to the Tanier Valley that, somewhat ironically, has become the core lands of the "Kingdom of Seshnela" in the Third Age).

The Vustri are one of the four Enerali tribes who converted before the rest, in opposition to the rest who were clustered around Hrelar Amali, forming the Dari Confederation at the time the Lightbringer missionaries (entering from Slontos or Dorastor) arrived.

There were immigrants through Dorastor, displacing local Serpent Beast folk and/or converting some of them. The Battle of Zebrawood established the presence of agriculturalists in northern Ralios.

Safelster was following the Lightbringers' creed when the Second Council turned into the Bright Empire after the Sunstop. Many former beast totems became weird ancestral spirit cults.

Arkat's Dark Empire aka the Archonate brought a measure of henotheist Malkionism to Safelster, which the God Learner conquest then used to establish their orthodoxy or their experimental sects. Urban and rural Safelster remains a mix of Malkionism and Theyalan theism.

THe two predominantly Orlanthi regions are Lankst on the uppermost Tanier River and the East Wilds. Lankst seems to share the Korioni ancestry of the lower porion of the Upper Tanier River, thus giving them an Enerali origin, some continuity from the Dari Confederation. The East Wilds Orlanthi include the Vustri and apparently various former Hykimi groups. There is little direct contact between the Orlanthi along the Tanier and those along the Doskior. Not much love either.

[metcalph]

5 hours ago, Akhôrahil said:

I desperately tried to find what languages the Ralian Orlanthi speak, without success (even after writing to ask Jonas Schiött).

Anyone have any thoughts there? How many different languages between them (and what names - I was just boring and went with Lanksting and Delelan), related in what ways to the Central Genertelan ones, do they originate in Stormspeech the same way?

Both Lankst and Delela speak Theyalan languages (Guide p387 and p393) and be related to Stormspeech.  The standard assumption is that they speak dialects in the same Ralian language family.  If you are feeling adventuros, you could have the Lanksti speak a dialect of Talastari (since most of their settlers would have come from there) while Delela would speak a language closer to Old Pavic (to reflect its EWF-friendly history).  The Lankst would have a lot of Safelstran lingo while the Deleans would be influenced by the Husnchen.  

[metcalph]

In terms of religion:

Delela has more beast cults (like Yinkin, Storm Bull and Odayla).  There would also be some Draconic mystery cults floating about the region (perhaps known as Drolgard - King of Sartar p123).  Instead of Yelmalio, they would worship Ehilm (although there is a Yelmalion temple near Karia p397).  

Lankst would be more influenced by lowlanders although they would avoid Arkati mystery cults and Wizards.  Their religious practices might be closer to what the God Learners taught rather than what the Heortlings follow.

Naskorion are Orlanthi heavily influenced by Darkness.  Argan Argar is prominent here and Arkat lurks behind the local Zorak Zoran cult.

[Jeff]

14 hours ago, Ironwall said:

So where do the Ralian Orlanthi come from Mythically. Additionally what are the religious and cultural differences from the more known Heortling Orlanthi.

Mythically? The stories of Orlanth and the Lightbringers are well-known in Ralios. Orlanth and the storm gods were powerful throughout Glorantha, and they have plenty of places of power in Ralios, especially in the mountains. 

Historically, the Orlanth cult came to Ralios in the First Age from Dragon Pass and was brought by the Theyalan missionaries. By the time of the Gbaji Wars, the Orlanth cult had been well established in Ralios for more than a century. The cult was in communication with Dragon Pass throughout the Second Age. However, with the Dragonkill War in 1120, it lost contact with Dragon Pass and developed independently. For example, the cult has had far more interaction with the Malkioni than the Dragon Pass Orlanthi, and has little experience of the Lunar Empire (other than viewing the Red Moon as a Bad Thing).

[Nick Brooke]

15 hours ago, metcalph said:

The first wave was from the Vingkotlings in the Storm Age who liberated the locals from the Dwarves.  They are now the Safelstrans.

An interesting mythic nuance: those Storm Age migrations/invasions usually swooped along the lines of mountain ranges, as Orlanthi armies and gods back then used to fly around smiting their foes. Migrations since Time began generally follow more traditional routes on foot, e.g. travelling around mountains or crossing them at passes (but not always: see Alakoring Dragonbreaker or the First Age wars in Fronela for counter-examples). And this, O Best Beloved, is why we find Storm-worshipping barbarians on either side of the Rockwood Mountains.

[Sir_Godspeed]

Dont they look to Top of the World as their primary sacred site rather than Kero Fin as well? Or is that a generalisation?

[jajagappa]

48 minutes ago, Sir_Godspeed said:

Dont they look to Top of the World as their primary sacred site rather than Kero Fin as well? Or is that a generalisation?

Orlanthi look to the closest Storm Mountain during their celebrations (e.g. if you're in Imther, you look towards Giant Top Mountain). During holy day ceremonies, the nature of the God-time is to bring all the Storm Mountains into view so that you can fly from one to another. Ultimately, you'll fly to either Top of the World or Kero Fin - they are both sacred to Orlanth (Kero Fin as his birthplace, Top of the World as his home).

[Ironwall]

Thanks for the answers theyve helped a lot but now i have another question. Where does Ehilm and Galanin fit into the ralian orlanthi pantheon. I take it they are local variants/replacements of Yelm and Yelmalio. There is also an extinct sundome if I remember correctly is the more mainstream Yelmalio cult still in Ralios?

[Joerg]

The Sun Dome Temple just south of Karia may have been instituted by Palangion the Iron Vrok, much like the one at Vanntar. The followers of the deity may have kept contact with those in Fronela, or through Maniria, but as Sun Dome Temples go, it is pretty isolated.

With the Evil Emperor often equated with Malkion, Ehilm can be a somewhat neutral, aloof sun god. Both Galanin and Ehilm are associated with the urban Safelstrans more than the backwater Orlanthi of Vesmonstran and Delela.

[Snugz]

For Galanin (moreso) and Ehilm, there are official bits in the Guide to Glorantha. Then there is nice unofficial stuff in (closer to official/modern) Men of the West; and Children of Hykim has some excellent fodder on their "beast-blood", with epic ideas for what may happen in the Hero Wars, then (older) a lot of basic Galanini info in Tradetalk #3. And if you search this forum, there's plenty more if you want a deep dive! 🙂

There is Saint Ehilm info in The ZIn Letters #2. I am not so clear on how well it relates to more current thinking.

With Galanini, it will help to read up on who the Enerali were (their ancestors), too.

[Snugz]

I'm not sure myself how to compare Ehilm with Yelm/Yelmalio. I've been puzzling it over for my game. I think the point above that it's a more general "aloof" solar diety works. So perhaps a blend of Yelm/Yelmalio aspects. Less "I am the greatest and in charge", more "I am/became the sun but the Invisible God is the greatest".

Anyway, the Galanini and their fondness for Ehilm are great adversaries for Ralian barbarians, if that's what players would be. Not that Ralians need more enemies!

[metcalph]

9 hours ago, Ironwall said:

Thanks for the answers theyve helped a lot but now i have another question. Where does Ehilm and Galanin fit into the ralian orlanthi pantheon. I take it they are local variants/replacements of Yelm and Yelmalio. There is also an extinct sundome if I remember correctly is the more mainstream Yelmalio cult still in Ralios?

Until the Solar Book comes out, we have to make do with inferences from the Prosopedia.

EHILM:  Doubled Fire Runes.  p33 "Among the Orlanthi of Ralios and Fronela, Ehilm is the Sun God".

GALANIN:  Doubled Fire Runes.  Beast. p42 "(T)he Sun Horse, who carries the solar disk Ehilm across the Sky Dome"

I would suggest that Ehilm's cult is Solar worship mounted to the cult of Galanin.  Most worshippers are simply initiates of Galanin with horse-riding magics.  The rune levels among them can become initiates of Ehilm with access to his fiery magics.  They wouldn't have Sunspear (as that seems to be a Dara Happan thing)

FWIW something else that I noticed:

GAMARA: No runes given.  "She  is depicted as a horse pulling a chariot with the solar disk" p43.

YU-KARGZANT:  Fire.  Life.  Death p141 "Yu-kargzant is depicted as a solar disk surmounted atop a golden horse."

It seems to me that the Pure Hose People were influenced by the God Learners when they were allies in Prax and that's how they made the transition from their God is the Sun Disk drawn by a chariot to their God is a Sun Disk atop a Horse.  The Life/Death duality in the Grazeland cult might be the result of their adoption by Ironhoof

 

[Jeff]

On 2/29/2024 at 3:01 AM, metcalph said:

Until the Solar Book comes out, we have to make do with inferences from the Prosopedia.

EHILM:  Doubled Fire Runes.  p33 "Among the Orlanthi of Ralios and Fronela, Ehilm is the Sun God".

GALANIN:  Doubled Fire Runes.  Beast. p42 "(T)he Sun Horse, who carries the solar disk Ehilm across the Sky Dome"

I would suggest that Ehilm's cult is Solar worship mounted to the cult of Galanin.  Most worshippers are simply initiates of Galanin with horse-riding magics.  The rune levels among them can become initiates of Ehilm with access to his fiery magics.  They wouldn't have Sunspear (as that seems to be a Dara Happan thing)

FWIW something else that I noticed:

GAMARA: No runes given.  "She  is depicted as a horse pulling a chariot with the solar disk" p43.

YU-KARGZANT:  Fire.  Life.  Death p141 "Yu-kargzant is depicted as a solar disk surmounted atop a golden horse."

It seems to me that the Pure Hose People were influenced by the God Learners when they were allies in Prax and that's how they made the transition from their God is the Sun Disk drawn by a chariot to their God is a Sun Disk atop a Horse.  The Life/Death duality in the Grazeland cult might be the result of their adoption by Ironhoof

 

A few notes on cults of the above.

EHILM: Has no cult. He's too abstract and impersonal to devote direct through and is worshiped through intermediaries.

GALANIN: Yelmalio with Ehilm as an associated god. That's where you can get some solar magic.

GAMARA: Hippoi.

YU-KARGZANT: That's Yelm. The Pure Horse People were not chariot folk. That was the Yelmalio worshiping Starlight Tribes.