Dwarven Repair Resurrection & Undead

[Erol of Backford]

Are dwarves able to be turned into undead?

Can dwarves be resurrected or are they needing to be repaired and or their spirit rebound into a repaired body?

Would they have regrow limb cast on them or would it be some sort of repair body? (see menu clip below)

We always played that dwarves bleed, never thought as to the color?

Are there any dwarven undead and if so where are they referenced?

On the same note are there any published dwarf Humakti?

(If this was discussed in past posts please link and thank you all.)

[Joerg]

Clay dwarfs should be susceptible to undeath, thanks to their origin that used the "men (and women) made of clay" blueprint copied from say Yelm and his friends or Pamalt and his friends, or (most likely) copied from Vimorn and his brothers as mentioned in Middle Sea Empire.

[Darius West]

Much though they hate to admit the fact, Clay Mostali aren't robots, they are robot wannabes, trapped in too too sullied flesh.

[mfbrandi]

9 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are dwarves able to be turned into undead?
Can dwarves be resurrected or are they needing to be repaired and or their spirit rebound into a repaired body?

Here is a non-canon, unhelpful, and utterly splintered answer, which I hope is at least fun.

When considering whether dwarfs can be made into undead, according to one school of thought, it doesn’t really matter what a dwarf body is made of — it might be flesh and bone, metal and clockwork, clay, or Plasticine — what matters is whether it has a “soul”: some non-physical bit of stuff which animates it. If resurrection is re-joining soul and body — reversing the severing work of Humakt — then it doesn’t really matter whether the body is first sent to a healer or to the machine shop. According to this school, even if dwarfs are steam engines with souls, they can be resurrected and made into undead. Undead robots are no madder than undead skeletons. Undead robots — yay!

According to another school, dwarfs don’t have souls (in this sense: a component of a complete creature needing to be fixed to the body), so they cannot be resurrected and they cannot be undead — unless normal, “living” dwarfs count as undead — but that is not to say they cannot be fixed and sent back to work even if they have been very, very broken.

The real headbangers of dwarf philosophy insist that this talk of non-physical components of work units is stuff and nonsense: a dwarf doesn’t have a soul, but neither does anyone else. It is all flummery, ideology, and con-trickery put about by the double act of Chalana Arroy and Humakt trying to make a place for itself in the world. Where does the big H get off claiming iron as the “death metal”? Everyone knows that it is Mostal’s symbol of the essential unity of the world — if it divides, it is only into the real and the imaginary.

Well, you get the idea, and can now spin off dwarf schismatics at will. 😉

[svensson]

10 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Are dwarves able to be turned into undead?

Can dwarves be resurrected or are they needing to be repaired and or their spirit rebound into a repaired body?

Would they have regrow limb cast on them or would it be some sort of repair body? (see menu clip below)

We always played that dwarves bleed, never thought as to the color?

Are there any dwarven undead and if so where are they referenced?

On the same note are there any published dwarf Humakti?

(If this was discussed in past posts please link and thank you all.)

I concur with most everyone so far.

Clay Mostali, what Humans call 'Dwarves', are living beings who are conditioned by their society to be robotic in behavior.

While Mostali casters might call a spell to bring a faulty unit back to life 'Refurbishment' or some such, it most likely is identical to Resurrection.

[My initial thought was to call the Mostali spell 'Recycling' but that term has consistently been used to describe when an errant unit has been sent 'back to the vats' so to speak.]

[metcalph]

Instead of regrow limb, the mostali would be more likely to surgically attach a spare limb from a fresh dwarf corpse.  If loses were particularly heavy, the limbs might be noticeable mismatched so you might see a dwarf with two right hands.  

Braindead dwarves have their brains scooped out and a special control module for a small nilmerg to operate as if it were a mecha.  The control units are expensive though and the dwarves use them only when a particular dwarf's body is reuired - ie it is one of the select few that can enter a magic vault.

I think that some iron dwarves take an alchemical conconction that turns them into a revenant (Bestiary p123).  These would be used to guard isolated places of critical importance.  

As for Dwarven Humakti, their name for the God is Iron.  

[Shiningbrow]

22 hours ago, svensson said:

While Mostali casters might call a spell to bring a faulty unit back to life 'Refurbishment' or some such, it most likely is identical to Resurrection.

Would a dwarf soul go to the underworld and meet up with Daka Fal? If not, I don't see how there could be anything identical to Resurrection. (especially if, as asked above, dwarfs don't have souls (as humans consider them).

21 hours ago, metcalph said:

Instead of regrow limb, the mostali would be more likely to surgically attach a spare limb from a fresh dwarf corpse.  If loses were particularly heavy, the limbs might be noticeable mismatched so you might see a dwarf with two right hands. 

Why??

Dwarfs practice a type of sorcery, and there's no real good reason (actually, there is**... :p) for them not to be able to repair it using Maker Magic.

 

(**however, there's the issue of 'growing' a new arm, which should be frowned upon, as going against makers... but, I suggest, there'd be similar magics that could attach an arm - but won't need to be from a fresh corpse - they could just make/shape one out of other substances - clay?? In Bestiary, it says that Jolanti get repaired the same way that weapons and armour are, so it wouldn't surprise me if the same is true for the dwarfs - ie, some sort of Repair spell... (which makes me wonder, since dwarfs don't use spirit magic, would a Repair spell work on them? Can they heal naturally??)

[metcalph]

26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Would a dwarf soul go to the underworld and meet up with Daka Fal? If not, I don't see how there could be anything identical to Resurrection. (especially if, as asked above, dwarfs don't have souls (as humans consider them).

Dwarves don't have souls in the same way they do not have sexual differences.

 

26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

Dwarfs practice a type of sorcery, and there's no real good reason (actually, there is**... :p) for them not to be able to repair it using Maker Magic.

Using Maker Magic is an admission of defeat.  The Material World is the Highest Form of Reality and the other worlds are inferior worlds warped by rogue magics.  The Dwarves do not use Maker Magic to commune with the World Machine for they are in the World Machine every single day.  Instead they use Maker Magic because they are not totally of the World Machine and that their own Souls hold them back.  Maker Magic is a necessary recalibration of the Self rather than a vision of the Divine.

That said, there are many dwarves who have fallen into error and believe otherwise.  They are Perverts - Report Them.

 

26 minutes ago, Shiningbrow said:

(**however, there's the issue of 'growing' a new arm, which should be frowned upon, as going against makers... but, I suggest, there'd be similar magics that could attach an arm - but won't need to be from a fresh corpse - they could just make/shape one out of other substances - clay?? In Bestiary, it says that Jolanti get repaired the same way that weapons and armour are, so it wouldn't surprise me if the same is true for the dwarfs - ie, some sort of Repair spell... (which makes me wonder, since dwarfs don't use spirit magic, would a Repair spell work on them? Can they heal naturally??)

Dwarves can and do use Spirit Magic.  It's not Proper for them to do so.  Jolanti and Nilmergs are Tamestones which Dwarves would like to be but manifestly are not.  Repair spells do not work on their flesh.  There are artificial arms in Glorantha (Aruzban Ironarm although Greg once told me he thought his arms reached the ground).

[svensson]

1 hour ago, Shiningbrow said:

Would a dwarf soul go to the underworld and meet up with Daka Fal? If not, I don't see how there could be anything identical to Resurrection. (especially if, as asked above, dwarfs don't have souls (as humans consider them).

 

Because Aldryami life-sparks /essences/ souls/ whatever go to Aldrya and Uz go to Kyger Litor. Logically Mostali 'essences' would return to their creator, Mostal for whatever processing he directs. Aldryami and Uz can be resurrected, either by use of a spell or Divine Intervention, so logically there isn't any reason why Mostali cannot either.

The differences in specific terminology come from the absence of the Fertility Rune in Mostali dogma. It is an important theological point to them that they are Made, not Bred or Born. Sources going back to RQ2 clearly state that that dwarves are created beings intimately tied to their creator diety, that they are uncomfortable with biological processes [ESPECIALLY reproduction], and that their world-view is directly tied to the World Machine and is industrial in nature.

IMGU, the effect is the same... a Mostali life essence returns to its material form... but the actual mechanics of the spell in question are known only by the leaders [Diamond Mostali or whomever] of the enclave in question. By the way this means that other casters cannot return a Mostali to life via the specific Resurrection spell, IMGU. If a player plays a Mostali, the corpse must be returned to their home Mostali enclave to be resurrected.

And no, I have not suss'ed that out in terms of all the various heresies as yet.

[Erol of Backford]

Did I miss it? Do dwarves bleed and what color is their blood? No source for dwarvish zombies... Do they have skeletons?

I wonder if Dwarves are made similar to Jolanti? Where are the molds... If a PC found the recipe for Jolanti (Different-Worlds-21 p.30) and then somehow modified it via alchemy to make it create dwarves somehow they could make a dwarf army... what fun.

Like the Clone Wars. Somehow I thought of yaba-daba-do...

Edited April 6 by Erol of Backford

[soltakss]

On 4/4/2024 at 12:23 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Are dwarves able to be turned into undead?

Yes.

On 4/4/2024 at 12:23 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Can dwarves be resurrected or are they needing to be repaired and or their spirit rebound into a repaired body?

Yes, Dwarves can be resurrected.

On 4/4/2024 at 12:23 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Would they have regrow limb cast on them or would it be some sort of repair body? (see menu clip below)

Regrow Limb works on Dwarves.

On 4/4/2024 at 12:23 AM, Erol of Backford said:

We always played that dwarves bleed, never thought as to the color?

Red, as normal. You could have black blood, like oil, if you prefer.

On 4/4/2024 at 12:23 AM, Erol of Backford said:

Are there any dwarven undead and if so where are they referenced?

I cannot remember any offhand, but why not have them?

On 4/4/2024 at 12:23 AM, Erol of Backford said:

On the same note are there any published dwarf Humakti?

I am sure that there are, however I cannot think of any examples.

All responses are in my own opinion, of course.

I think that by the tone of the questions, you might be confusing the original Mostali with Clay Mostali, or Dwarves. The original Mostali are more like metal constructs, formed in metallic vats and pulled fully-formed from those metals. Clay Mostali, or Dwarves, were also originally pulled from the Clay Vat, but now live, and reproduce, like other beings, although they spend several shameful hours grinding away with their mortar and pestle to do so. For me, Clay Mostali had a healthy dollop of Grandfather Mortal, or the Man Rune, in their creation, so are more like Elves, Trolls, and Humans than their metallic ancestors.

 

[Joerg]

17 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

Did I miss it? Do dwarves bleed and what color is their blood? No source for dwarvish zombies... Do they have skeletons?

Dwarf skeletons are canonical - the founder of the Individualist heresy was so pious (despite his heresy) that his bones had turned to metal by the time of his demise (at a ripe age of a millennium or so).

18 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

I wonder if Dwarves are made similar to Jolanti? Where are the molds... If a PC found the recipe for Jolanti (Different-Worlds-21 p.30) and then somehow modified it via alchemy to make it create dwarves somehow they could make a dwarf army... what fun.

The original Iron Mostali sort of fit this description - they were created by a conclave of the eight previous castes, but without the participation of Mostal (or Stone). They were designed for mass production, but not noticeably as a self-reproducing workforce.

With the development of the Clay Mostali, the Iron Caste apparently recruits a significant portion of those proto-dwarf modules as their caste may suffer the highest attrition rate amont the castes. The original Iron Mostali recipe might be retrievable, and a deep quest into the neighborhood of Magasta's Pool might be able to unearth some ancient vats that might replace the original Iron Crucible after the destruction of the workrooms in the basement of the Spike. Between the Nidan and the Slon decamonies there might be enough highest-level diamond dwarves and remaining Elder Mostali to attempt new batches of original Iron Mostali. It isn't quite clear whether those original Iron Mostali were superior to highly-trained Iron Caste Clay Mostali, though.

[Erol of Backford]

21 hours ago, soltakss said:

black blood, like oil

I like this and may use it for Mostali but most PC's wouldn't see a true Mostali bleed... at least in the Glorantha I've played in.

4 hours ago, Joerg said:

a deep quest into the neighborhood of Magasta's Pool

Somehow the PC's have earned the trust of the dwarves/Mostali, maybe the dwarf of Dwarf Run (enough adventure links near there) and are to conduct a Hero Quest to Magasta's Pool to find some missing parts of the original Iron Mostali recipe... do they join the Barran on his quest to a certain point or do they ride the Cradle down, either way they part ways with either of those heroes once they are down there...

Anyone have Hero Quest stations for Magasta's Pool and a dwarven Hero Quest down there, maybe a dwarvish submarine and or Leonardo works with Isidilian and sends the PC's to the Clanking Ruins to find something crucial for the submarine to survive the trip into the Pool... could they use it in the future to go up the Syphon and down the Toe Hole as well? Maybe its a Turtle Ship in lieu of a Dragon Ship?

The dwarves wish to begin preparing for the Hero Wars... need recipe for Jolanti or some ingredients and or missing fragments of the mold that makes Iron Warriors (idea from White Dwarf Magazine Issue 098 - Feb. 1988) both would be fun.

Sounds like an epic long term quest.

[Joerg]

31 minutes ago, Erol of Backford said:

 

Anyone have Hero Quest stations for Magasta's Pool and a dwarven Hero Quest down there,

If you check the "other islands" chapter in the Guide, there is Halway Island on the border between the world of the living and the underworld, a rock sticking out into the Maelstrom where refugees from ships caught in the Whirlpool have ended up as castaways, and on the opposite side of the Maelstrom (perceived as "above") there is another island, apparently inhabited by Mostali. When the castaways shaped a huge human effigy from loose rocks on their islands, the inhabitants of the opposite islands sent across an iron ballista bolt, directly into its head.

That dwarfen promontory in the Pool might be the place where they work on recovering or reconstructing (parts of) the Spike. It will have a tunnel connection to some dwarf colony connected to the surface world, but it is unknown which.

[Erol of Backford]

6 hours ago, Joerg said:

"other islands"

7 hours ago, Joerg said:

there is Halway Island on the border between the world of the living and the underworld

Yet another interesting rabbit hole... like Blackmaw. Is there a ledge or platform halfway down if that distance in time and speed is ever to be known?

I didn't find Halway and looked for Halfway but nothing on that related to Magasta's Pool unfortunately.

Iron City juts sideways out of the wall of Magasta’s Pool and Nowhere Land, a bleak and desolate place which sits deep within the maelstrom of Magasta’s Pool.

This is where Barran's boat and the Cradle dock before decending to the bottom. Hero Quest station 01. It's perfect.

A 3 mile long crossbow bolt... the Sun Domers of Harpoon should visit there.

Do dwarves go to Iron City for vacation to recharge their batteries, get a little R&R?

[davecake]

On 4/5/2024 at 5:49 PM, metcalph said:

Dwarves don't have souls in the same way they do not have sexual differences.

Perfectly true. The Illuminates will tell you that Truth and Illusion are not truly opposites.