Why is BRP not that popular?

[Bygoneyrs]

Hello there 'frogspawner',

To answer your question below...most likely I will look at the BRP d100 system and my own house rules to rebuild/convert my Fantasy (currently D&D v3.5 d20) and Post Apocalyptic (currently Gamma World d20) campaigns to using. I will also convert my 'Beyond the Supernatural' campaign into using the BRP d100 system as well too.

The time is now and your system is in so many ways already used by me in my own house rules. I built many of them from some of the other past campaign books like Elf Quest and etc. I guess for years I was a sudo convert and didn't even know it...LMAO!!!

Now as for Traveller, we are all old timer CT players and like the return of Mongoose to the use of CT type rules. For Traveller at this point we will stick with the Mongoose ruleset, plus our house rules(which once again come from former stuff taken from this very system...LOL!!!).

Penn

Surely we can rule out 'wishful thinking' from a D&Der of 30+ years standing.

To say "D&D4 has failed" may be overstatement, but if we can read between the lines and see a group of 7 experienced D&D GM's each with their own groups giving D&D4 the Thumbs Down and looking for something else...

...what better evidence do you need that it's simply the truth?

Bygoneyrs, are you and your cohorts intending to stick with AD&D/GW/Traveller or are you all intending to change to a new system?

BRP (with some houserules) should be good for all those genres...

[rust]

Bygoneyrs, something Soltakss is working on could well be worth a look for you:

http://www.soltakss.com/rq_scifi.doc

It is a combination of the SRDs of Runequest and Mongoose Traveller, and

I found it most useful for my own setting development.

[frogspawner]

The time is now and your system is in so many ways already used by me in my own house rules. I built many of them from some of the other past campaign books like Elf Quest and etc. I guess for years I was a sudo convert and didn't even know it...LMAO!!!

Thanks, I'm glad to hear it! Best of luck with the conversions.

BRP is as much your system as mine, I'd say. We seem to be pretty much in the same boat. I've had a long-running campaign that started as AD&D (1st ed) which I've houseruled/converted piecemeal to RQ2/3 (i.e. near enough BRP) over many, many years... And now to BRP proper (ok, still with plenty of houserules!).

You'll get plenty of help from the guys (and gal/s?) hereabouts, and if you find any of my campaign/rules stuff useful, please feel free...

[Nightshade]

Well, as mentioned above: Over here it has already failed - and Germany

has always been a very reliable market for D&D.

Sure. And its been one of its bigger foreign ones, from what I understand. That said, all evidence I have is that the domestic market has always been far and away the biggest piece of the D&D pie since back in the TSR days. So, frankly, even losing all their foreign market wouldn't be a failure for them (at least by itself).

[Nightshade]

It depends on where you live, I think. Here in Germany the existence of the

new BRP makes a difference, because until then there were a number of

BRP-based games with different settings available, but not BRP as a generic system.

But BRP isn't the only option for them, either. There are other games that don't fill dissimilar niches, and some of those have been in print.

When RQ came out in the late 70's it was a unique artifact in gaming; one of the first that wasn't a D&D clone. But these days BRP is not unique in being a non-class non-level. Probably its only unique or nearly unique feature is its advancement methodology, and even a lot of people wanting to move away from D&D may well not like that methodology; I've known plenty of BRP fans who have mixed feelings about it.

[rust]

But BRP isn't the only option for them, either. There are other games that don't fill dissimilar niches, and some of those have been in print.

Oh, of course, and I really do not expect all of those gamers who are dis-

appointed by D&D 4.0 to show any interest in BRP - but indications are

that some do, and I consider this a perhaps small, but most welcome de-

velopment.

[Nightshade]

Oh, of course, and I really do not expect all of those gamers who are dis-

appointed by D&D 4.0 to show any interest in BRP - but indications are

that some do, and I consider this a perhaps small, but most welcome de-

velopment.

Fair enough.

[frogspawner]

But if there's even the slightest chink in the (D&)Dragon's armour, we BRP fans really should think positive and aim for it - and maybe score that critical hit...

And by way of being positive, can we please change this thread's title to "Why is BRP only popular with the Discerning Few?"

[Kyle Aaron]

The new BRP is not popular in Australia because it's not sold here. No-one can play it unless they can get a copy.

I guess I better head to ebay...

[NickMiddleton]

The new BRP is not popular in Australia because it's not sold here. No-one can play it unless they can get a copy.

Bear in mind it is available as a completely DRM free PDF from Chaosium as well, so it should be possible to buy a PDF and take it to a print bureau and get them to print and bind a copy. Not sure how that would compare price wise to shipping a physical copy from the US, but it might be worth checking...

I guess I better head to ebay...

Also keep an eye on teh good second hand dealers in the US like Noble Knight - shipping will still be high, but the book itself might be priced more reasonably.

I hope you managed to get copy!

Cheers,

Nick

[rust]

The new BRP is not popular in Australia because it's not sold here.

Booktopia seems to have it:

Booktopia Search Results for 'Basic Roleplaying System'. We sell books, hardback, paperback, audio, CDs.

[Guest logan9a]

Heck, I like using BRP and have gotten about a dozen other GM's to try it out. And recorded/podcast it all.

[Trifletraxor]

You'll get plenty of help from the guys (and gal/s?) hereabouts, and if you find any of my campaign/rules stuff useful, please feel free...

Another link for the link list! :thumb:

:beetle:

[frogspawner]

Another link for the link list! :thumb:

I'm honoured. Thank you!

[Ombord]

Basically it is the BETAMAX dilemma. It doesn't matter if it is a superior machine/format if most of the machines and "tapes" people see are in VHS format.

Well, I think blaming it on VHS (read D&D) is missing the opportunity to engage in some healthy self-criticism.

The BRP rulebook does not offer balance. Compared to yesterday's games, it's a good effort, but for today, the BRP rulebook looks like a first draft, before the "tightening up your ship" and the "kill your darlings" phase.

People aren't (very) interested in toolboxes. They want focused products, where the hard work (balancing) is done for them.

[frogspawner]

Shall we continue this in a new thread, rather than this long-dead zombie?

[Conrad]

The super powers section includes some basic handicaps and power modifiers, but they're not as complex or robust as those that a dedicated superhero game would include.

So you're basically saying that the handicaps and power mods aren't fit for purpose if you're running a proper superhero game?

[AndrewMorton]

BRP should be more popular with roleplayers than the latest version of D&D. BRP is a role playing game and D&D 4th ed is a table top skirmish game. The difference is BRP doesn't have Hasbro and 30 odd years of history in popular media behind it.

[Guest Vile Traveller]

Shall we continue this in a new thread, rather than this long-dead zombie?

Quoted for pertinence.

[ragr]

Just stumbled across this thread and wanted to add my two pennies.

I've just changed a very long running Greyhawk campaign from 3.5/Pathfinder to BRP; something which, in retrospect, I should have done when 2e ran out of steam. I had become thoroughly fed up with the overwritten, over balanced and over quantified nature of 3.5 and wanted a return to older days when a rule wasn't devised for every eventuality and you just got on with the game when there was something not covered by a "golden rule". The real beauty of BRP is that its flaws are easily covered over in gameplay because the mechanics lend themselves to adaptation without requiring me to sit down and write a 50 page house rule document; in essence everybody accepts that things went this way this time but next time they may not.

In time I suspect that people will migrate from 4e and its ilk when they become tired of rules, regulation and balance and just want to experience a looser more intuitive game based on "my character jumps on the table and kicks the bulky barbarian's drink from his hand. What should I roll?" as opposed to "I leap on the table using my Salmon Leap feat, swinging a foot utilising Boot Sweep feat combined with Unarmed Disarm ability and then Backflip Into Striking Pose granting my party members an additional +1 on whatever for the rest of the melee". Eventually everbody tires of such pointless b***ocks. Keep it here, keep it simple and they will come. Those with any sense anyway.

[rust]

In time I suspect that people will migrate from 4e and its ilk when they become tired of rules, regulation and balance and just want to experience a looser more intuitive game based on "my character jumps on the table and kicks the bulky barbarian's drink from his hand. What should I roll?" as opposed to "I leap on the table using my Salmon Leap feat, swinging a foot utilising Boot Sweep feat combined with Unarmed Disarm ability and then Backflip Into Striking Pose granting my party members an additional +1 on whatever for the rest of the melee". Eventually everbody tires of such pointless b***ocks. Keep it here, keep it simple and they will come. Those with any sense anyway.

Some players just want, even need, precise rules for every eventuality, and some

distrust the referee's abilities so much that they do not want to allow him to ma-

ke up any rules on the spot. There are enough of both kinds that I have no doubt

that D&D 4e will survive and do well.

[ragr]

I agree totally. And, I wish 4e every success because it serves as a portal into the hobby and I wish Pathfinder the same because it's a very well written game.

But, if and when the players/Gms grow tired of those very strengths, BRP needs to be here to offer an alternative (and those other great systems out there). It would be interesting to find out if it's Gms or players who get most disillusioned with highly regulated systems (or if it's just purely personal taste). In my case it was me, the GM, and my players probably would have happily continued with Pathfinder.

[rust]

I started with rules light systems, Runequest and Traveller, and grew tired of ha-

ving to make up too many house rules for my kind of game. I then fell in love with

AD&D, which seemed "just right" for me at the time, and later on with more simu-

lationist games like GURPS - it felt nice to have a rule for everything. However,

after a while I came to the conclusion that such a level of detail can also be a

nasty straightjacket that hinders creativity instead of supporting it, and also ta-

kes too much time for dealing with numbers than actually roleplaying. At the mo-

ment I use the Call of Cthulhu system with some added BRP options, a system

that in general has even less rules depth than BRP, but more detail in the areas

where my kind of setting and campaign really needs them. Things may change

again, but right now I could not imagine to play something as complex as D&D 4e.

[ragr]

AD&D was always great fun, not overpowered and fairly rules light, albeit a little confusing at times: roll high is good for this, roll low is good for that. Eh? Still, as a campaign framework it was great.

I'm going to run COC next year so reading what you said above is great; setting and detail not weight of rules.

I'm actually quite happy that BRP isn't as popular as some other games, especially the most well known. The fact that it's popular within a select audience practically guarantees that you're not inundated with supplements that run to 128 pages but deliver only 15 of interest and that those supplements that are released are labours of love not cash. And there's always that comparison with music; that band you love that you've seen 10 times at clubs and then they become global and you just can't get as interested now the secret's out.

Edited December 11, 2010 by ragr

[DamonJynx]

Well, this is an interesting thread. I've been gaming for about 10years now, maybe a little longer and up until recently all of my gaming has been one version of D&D or another. The group I game with are D&D power gamers and rules lawyers. They will spend hours creating uber characters for a simple one off dungeon crawl. We had started playing 4E and it was quite good - very hard initially - to get the way over top PC, but then the supplements came out, the revisions came out, change upon change upon change. Add to the mix that PC's are all but indestructible in a "balanced encounter", and well you can see why I'm here. I started looking for alternatives, we now play a 3.5 Eberron campaign, A WFRPG game, a 4E game and I'm about to start a MRQII Elric game. I bought the BGB, and really liked what I saw. Characters that made sense. Advancement based on succesfull use of abilities/skills rather than some arbitrary XP system. Whatever character you wanted, you could play. And no endless supply of HIT POINTS! Unfortunately, I can't justify $60USD for a second hand rule book or PDF (Stormbringer 5th) and I don't have the time to house rule heavily or create my own setting. A mate lent me a copy of the MRQII book, it was BRP tweaked for fantasy/S&S style play and I love it. There are things I think BRP does better, the resistance table for example rather than an opposed roll for everything, but on the whole MRQII is a nice fit. But to the question at hand, BRP is not that popular (IMO) due mostly to a lack of promotion and product support, way back when.