Why is BRP not that popular?

[Trifletraxor]

I found one too. Trifletraxtor. But dont tell him please. (/staring fearfully at T`s 2H mace).

Are you implying that I exibit anything less than perfect behaviour when I frequent forums? That's outrageous! :eek:

<club-club!>

Sverre.

[TRose]

Who dat that say bad things about Trolls. ME UZ, Me smash face with me maul.

[Trifletraxor]

Are you implying that I exibit anything less than perfect behaviour when I frequent forums? That's outrageous! :eek:

<club-club!>

Sverre.

Oh, now I got it. You were refering to my avatar, not me being banned from the MRQ forum 3 times. Stupid me...

Well I was just being "in character", you see, my trollkin PC has a INT of 9. Can't help it.

SGL.

[badcat]

Ain't sweating it, and it's handled. Just sayin', with tongue in cheek.

[Rurik]

I don't think I've seen any trolls here... yet.

Ummm, have you seen our site admin?

[Nightshade]

After reading through that RPG.net thread on drama points again, I am reminded that there were a lot of good ideas in there about how, when, and when not to use them... and I realized that the thing I specifically don't like about some manifestations of them is re-rolls and revisionist manipulation of the setting by players ('Oh look, I found a clue!').

But there are lots of ways to use them without crossing over into that sort of thing...

Well, honestly things like Dramatic Editing are a step farther along than simple luck points and the like; while I think they have a place in certain sorts of structured stylized settings (superhero games for example), they're well beyond what I've been talking about here.

Why do rerolls specifically bother you? As compared to other buffering uses?

I'd still prefer them to remain optional though.

I think there's nothing wrong with that; I just think it serves people that they're in the rules, and properly integrated by someone who understands the rules structure.

[Enpeze]

Oh, now I got it. You were refering to my avatar, not me being banned from the MRQ forum 3 times. Stupid me...

Well I was just being "in character", you see, my trollkin PC has a INT of 9. Can't help it.

SGL.

Good acting.

[Atgxtg]

Sometimes I just can't understand the reasoning behind certain posts. :confused:

No such luck with this thread! :D

[soltakss]

"Why is BRP not that popular?" is the biggest thread here on the forum, but most of the topics in the thread is not directly related to the original topic.

Whatever the reason is, one thing for sure - it's not because of some particular subrules about damage bonus, Strike Ranks, Hit Locations or anything else.

Maybe it's too deadly, maybe it is too open, maybe it's not structured enough.

(Looks like we're only bitching about d&d being bigger than brp. )

Some things don't change.

In any case, BRP/D100/RQ combined will never be as big as D&D/D20 and so what? They are two different games. It's like asking why Star Wars isn't as big as Star Trek?

[Sorloc]

Oh, now I got it. You were refering to my avatar, not me being banned from the MRQ forum 3 times. Stupid me...

Well I was just being "in character", you see, my trollkin PC has a INT of 9. Can't help it.

SGL.

Heh... I though I was the only one who took being banned from a forums (or a game) as a badge of honor...

Got banned from one particular game 3 times... Wouldn't go back because I wouldn't promise to not make a clone of the GM's pet player's character (who got to take advantage of every nasty house rule that came along).

[Atgxtg]

Probably the real reason* It's too OLD.

Unless ypu are a CoC fan, you'd have to be pretty old to remember BRP products-older than the average gamer.

If we took music or TV shows from the early 80s I doubt they would be propular with the average gamer today either.

How many of the under 20 crowd are on this forum?

[badcat]

So maybe the key is to de-identify gaming with pop culture. God knows I see all ages at chess clubs...

[Atgxtg]

So maybe the key is to de-identify gaming with pop culture. God knows I see all ages at chess clubs...

You missed my point. You see all ages at Chess clubs because Chess has been on the shelves continually. In RPG circles the same is true of D&D, in one form or another.

But it is hard for a 15 year old to pick up and play an RPG that hasn't been on the shelves for 20 years.

[Simlasa]

You missed my point. You see all ages at Chess clubs because Chess has been on the shelves continually. In RPG circles the same is true of D&D, in one form or another.

But it is hard for a 15 year old to pick up and play an RPG that hasn't been on the shelves for 20 years.

I tend to agree with this...

Like Soltakss I really don't think the issue has much to do with the rules themselves, I think they stand up well to anything that's come along in recent years... some people aren't gonna like them no matter what and that's fine... if it was a matter of trendy mechanics being popular D&D oughtta be long gone.

It's pretty strong evidence though, that ,except for COC, I haven't seen a Chaosium product on a store shelf in a long long time. Stormbringer never had much of a retail presence at any of the stores I hung out at.

I'm not inclined to think that just bringing out the new edition is going to suddenly create a legion of rabid fans... and there are some ways in which I think BRP is not a 'for the masses' sort of flavor... but having it on the shelves again will at least give people a ready way to buy it and check it out.

[badcat]

No, actually you missed my meaning...completely. Forget it.

[Nightshade]

I tend to agree with this...

if it was a matter of trendy mechanics being popular D&D oughtta be long gone.

If mechanics were the _only_ element in a game's success, that might be true. But its one of several.

[Simlasa]

If mechanics were the _only_ element in a game's success, that might be true. But its one of several.

That's basically what I said...

I'm wondering how much the 'generic' label is a factor.

GURPS seems to currently be one of the most popular multi-genre-capable generic systems... but are generic systems ever as popular as systems that catch on because of having a really popular setting or genre?

Something like Exalted seems to be popular almost in spite of it's rules... because it governs a setting/topic that lots of fans are interested in.

Same thing with White Wolf's World Of Darkness setting...

How much does lacking a specific subject hurt the fan potential of the game?

[Nightshade]

That's basically what I said...

I just got the implication from the phrasing that it meant the mechanics didn't have an effect, and I'm not willing to cede that.

I'm wondering how much the 'generic' label is a factor.

GURPS seems to currently be one of the most popular multi-genre-capable generic systems... but are generic systems ever as popular as systems that catch on because of having a really popular setting or genre?

Something like Exalted seems to be popular almost in spite of it's rules... because it governs a setting/topic that lots of fans are interested in.

Same thing with White Wolf's World Of Darkness setting...

How much does lacking a specific subject hurt the fan potential of the game?

I'd be hard pressed to speculate on that. There are certainly relatively successful games that don't have a well known setting; you mentioned GURPS, but Hero also landed in this area, and until its crash which had relatively little to do with its popularity, BESM.

But that doesn't mean setting doesn't have some heft in the success of a game.

[Simlasa]

What I was getting at...

in light of my own purchasing habits...

For years most of the games I've bought have been because they had intriguing settings/genres. I can't remember worrying about what kind of systems they had or whether or not they had some mechanic I'd hate.

Even the Chaosium games I've bought were because I liked Lovecraft, Moorcock, Glorantha... I had no particular opinion about the rules themselves, except liking that they didn't have levels/classes/alignments.

It's only relatively recently that I've latched onto a couple of systems (GURPS and BRP) that I now try to convert most other things to.

That hasn't kept me from seeking out all the stuff for other games settings I enjoy, like Tribe 8, Fading Suns, or The Whispering Vault.

I still buy a lot of different games, I just don't use their rules.

So in light of that, I'd guess that if you're going to market your generic system, all you've really got to sell it are the rules... the rules become that much more important... and it probably helps if they can lay claim to some particular niche... which I might think is 'transparently simple yet gritty and realistic' for BRP.

[Sorloc]

There are certainly relatively successful games that don't have a well known setting; you mentioned GURPS, but Hero also landed in this area, and until its crash which had relatively little to do with its popularity, BESM.

But that doesn't mean setting doesn't have some heft in the success of a game.

I don't know that HERO would be in the shape it's in without Champions. Surely MERP had a little something to do with it also. I'm betting that the situation there is much like here; There are two or three well-known settings, and a handful of minor, even obscure ones.

[Joseph Paul]

My purchasing habits differ quite a bit from yours Simlasa. Intriguing background with a crap system attached? I would never part with money for it. In fact I end up buying systems just to see how they function. That determines if I continue to buy material for it. Great system with a setting that I am not interested in? Eh, I will pass on the setting. If the system and the setting are hard wired to one another I may pass on the system too.

I don't like Lovecraft for instance so I don't have any of the CoC material beyond a very old second(?) edition and a 5th that was on sale at Half Price Books.

Liked Moorcock's work but there were things in Stormbringer that I just couldn't stomach so I never did get much beyond the Companion and Demon Magic and I got those because I was looking for additional rules not settings as I had determined that I wasn't going to play SB.

I do have quite a bit of setting/adventure stuff for RQII/III, 2300AD and Twilight2K.

If the system can't meet my needs then I eschew the whole line. So catching me with the rules is of paramount importance. Second comes having a setting that I think is intriguing and fun.

[drohem]

The one thing that I really loved about GURPS fantasy setting was the concept of the Banestorm. This allowed a GM to add anything to his fantasy campaign in small doses.

I think that one of the pitfalls of the GURPS fantasy setting was the overriding religious tone of the historical christian/muslim conflict. Although the concept was logical and sound- humans displaced from earth's past onto a new planet would continue their cultural practices- I think that it appealed to a narrow base. Those interested in a historical/fantasy setting would love it, but those interested in a more generic fantasy setting would be turned off by the religious overtones.

[Sorloc]

I love religion for setting purposes...

Nothing is better at needlessly creating conflict than religion. As stated in the rules for Illuminati, 'all fanatic organizations are opposed to each other'.

I mentioned it elsewhere in this forum, but I have a continent with several dwarven nations that constantly try to annihilate each other due to different interpretations of the same religion's dogma - much like the protestant reformation. From outside the religion, they all seem the same, but they're fanatically opposed to each other over trivial details.

See, if Country A is going to attack Country B, we want to know why. If it's about land, OK. If it's about gaining access to a seaport, OK. If it's ancient enmities, OK. If it's about one country is richer, OK. All of these can be resolved through either bloodshed or diplomacy.

If it's a religious issue, however, there is only one solution - destroy ALL the heretics, hunt down the infidels and burn them all. There can be no diplomacy, no peace, no compromise, no understanding.

Obvious examples include Jerusalem, but also the pervading self-inflicted ignorance in the USA regarding all non-christian religions, especially Muslim. Most people know next to nothing about the religion, and desire to know even less. And this in a supposedly highly educated world leading country.

PLEASE NOTE: I am not taking a position either for or against ANY religion, and absolutely will not get involved in any such discussion. I realize the danger in even skirting this issue, and only do so to illustrate that with this subject, fanaticism is rampant and cannot be suppressed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_denominations

[drohem]

hehe...I hear you and agree. Specifically, I think that open or blatent real-world religion parallels don't work (i.e. christian/muslim conflict in GURPS fantasy setting) well and appeal to the masses. Personally, I find it cool. I am a history buff and so find it extremely interesting myself.

I think that you can take real-world religious parallels and transform them into a fantasy campaign like you did with your dwarves. There is an obvious real-world parallel there. Those outside the dwarven culture would just think that the dwarves are crazy because they don't understand the foundation for the eminty between dwarven religious factions. I really like your campaign idea for the dwarven culture. I like dwarves!

[Sorloc]

I love James Clavell's novels...

In Shogun, his most famous (probably because it became a miniseries starring Richard Chamberlain and Toshiro Mifune (1980 - go rent it it's most excellent - better yet, read the book - best of all, do both, it's worth it,)) The arrival of John Blackthorne, an Englishman, in Japan in 1600, caused immense confusion when the Japanese learned that this European was enemy to the other Europeans, and because the Portugese and Spanish, who were the only Europeans they had encountered at that point, were *Catholic* Christians, while Blackthorne was *Protestant* Christian, a distinction none of the Japanese could be made to understand.