information on KnightFort area

[TRose]

 Im starting a new game for a group of friends who have never played BRP/Runequest  and who know nothing about Glorantha and I decided to start them  in the Knight Fort area between the Holy Country and Prax shortly after the Lunar conquest of Prax..

 I was wondering if there is any official information on Knights Fort beside its location on Maps of Prax?

 My view ( Or at least in my game) Is it the major trading center for trade between Prax and the Holy Country and  being where Prax , Heortland and God's Forgot come together it has a very mixed population. So you can have a very mixed group of players.Its name suggest Malkoni Origin but its seems to be in Heortland.

 Also does anyone know what form of Sorcery  is Practiced On God's Forgot/ Right arm Island?

[soltakss]

The Gloranthan Wiki has a little on it at http://glorantha.wikia.com/wiki/Marcher_Barony  - The fort itself is a castle that guards the border between Prax and the Holy Country, preventing Praxian incursions.

 

I seem to recall that this was settled by Malkioni, possibly Rikard the Tigerhearted's men, from Malkonwal, but it looks as though it pre-dates Malkonwal, so maybe not.

 

God Forgot uses Brithini magic, at least those who are Brithini do. The non-Brithini probably use a variation that is not as powerful/complete.

 

The Right-Arm islanders might not practice sorcery, as they are drawn to the water deities/spirits.

[TRose]

  Thanks for the reply

Seem then pretty open for me to do what I want then.

 As far as Knights Fort being built by Rikard the Tigerheart.

 Given its position at a very Strategic chokehold I would guess that a Fort and trading Outpost has been there since the First Age.

 Given the Nature of the inhabitants of Prax, chances are it has been burnt down more times then Troy has.

 Rikard the TigerHeart could just be the latest one to rebuild Knights Fort.

 From what I know of Brithini, I don't consider them suitable for Player Sorcerers , but then Malkoni as a whole have problems in most role playing groups, so Im going to have to work on that.

[Mankcam]

I cannot find it on the G2G map, but I do seem to remember something about a Heortlander garrison in South Western Prax, is this what you are referring to?

I do have the old RQ2 Companion which has a great map of Holy Country, and there is a site there in the region you are describing. The region is called Marcher Barons, but the site itself does not have a title on my map. I'm assuming that this is KnightFort, and it must be listed on another map

If so, I would go with Knight Fort possibly originally being a Brithini settlement which perhaps became a God Learner outpost that was abandoned at the end of the Second Age. I would give its ancient name a very unusual sounding name to its current one, to dress up the Brithini origins. Probably held by God Forgot for some time in the early Third Age, but eventually abandoned for whatever reason.

A stronghold in this region would have been strategic for Heortlanders to claim it, and it may have fallen into the hands of different factions over the years, those of the Orlanthi and those of the Esvularings.

Given its name, it would probably be in Esvularing hands at the end of the Third Age. However I would consider it almost neutral ground so Orlanthi could travel there as well. Perhaps it's known as a different name to the Orlanthi, something like 'Thanes Hold' perhaps?

Presenting the Heortlanders to new players, I would present Orlanthi Heortlanders using Gauls or Thracians as a basic analogy, throwing in some Norse and Mycenaean elements to round them out.

The Esvularing Heortlanders are an even more unusual blend. These days I tend to use early Byzantine Empire with some Vedic influences as an anology for Malkioni, so for the Esvularings this would have to be somehow mixed with the Orlanthi elements I described above. 

A bit difficult, but that's the charm of Glorantha

Getting back to Knights Fort itself, maybe the troops who hold it are some kind of 'outcast garrison', like the Men of the Nights Watch from Westeros, full of exiles, debt workers, etc.

Knights Fort could also easily function as a minor trade outpost between regional Heortlanders and inhabitants from Prax, such as the Pol Joni Nomads, the Animal Nomads, Lunar Grantlanders, Zola Fel Riverfolk, Sun Countrymen, and even Pavisites. I doubt any Brithini or their servants from God Forgot would regularly frequent the place, due to their isolative culture.

The main thing is that its primary purpose is that it still stands against any potential Nomad hordes from Prax, even if most Heortlanders may have almost forgotten its existence.

The Lunar Imperials probably have their eye on it, and may have their merchant priests from Corflu venturing up to the outpost for information gathering-purposes for the Empire, under the guise of simple 'trade rites'

Yes, it's a pretty open place for a GM to tinker with actually, and it sounds as it might be a great starting point for a fantasy game that doesn't impact on the major plot lines of Glorantha. I can see a lot of possibilities for a site like this as a setting

Edited July 8, 2016 by Mankcam

[M Helsdon]

The Gloranthan Wiki has a little on it at http://glorantha.wikia.com/wiki/Marcher_Barony  - The fort itself is a castle that guards the border between Prax and the Holy Country, preventing

Knight Fort appears to be one of many such fortifications in Marcher County, built to defend the Holy Country from Praxian Raids. Marcher County has a population of around twenty thousand, and lies within the 'province' of God Forgot; the military of this region consist of well armed members of the soldier caste, the Horali. They rely upon crossbows and disciplined formations, and fortifications. God Forgot is inhabited by people who follow rigidly the Brithini forms of life and government, and ruled by the Talar. Earlier, they were influenced by the God Learners, especially the Zistorites but are now very orthodox Malkioni.

See the Guide material on God Forgot.

[Joerg]

I beg to differ - Knight Fort is part of the Esvulari lands, like the Bandori valley and the southern part of the plateau. The Esvulari combine Malkioni and Orlanthi traits, and they imitate the Westerners and their heavy cavalry, aka knights - hence the name. The marches are a place to send malcontents and dissidents to cool off in the constant skirmishes against Praxian braves.

[M Helsdon]

I beg to differ - Knight Fort is part of the Esvulari lands, like the Bandori valley and the southern part of the plateau. The Esvulari combine Malkioni and Orlanthi traits, and they imitate the Westerners and their heavy cavalry, aka knights - hence the name. The marches are a place to send malcontents and dissidents to cool off in the constant skirmishes against Praxian braves.

According to the map on page 246, Guide to Glorantha, that isn't so.

Bandori is clearly stated  in the text as Esvularing, but even the Brithini city of Refuge in Bandori is not Esvularing, though allied with them, and is described as part of God Forgot. Marcher County is not described as Esvularing.

[metcalph]

I think the Knight Fort in the Nomad Gods is an innovation to represent a starting place for the Holy Country and that the actual knight forts are further southwest off the map.

[Joerg]

According to the map on page 246, Guide to Glorantha, that isn't so.

Bandori is clearly stated  in the text as Esvularing, but even the Brithini city of Refuge in Bandori is not Esvularing, though allied with them, and is described as part of God Forgot. Marcher County is not described as Esvularing.

It is a separate County. There are three counties in southern Heortland - Isles, Bandori, Praxian Marches.

The map on p.246 has a clear border along the coastline for God Forgot (also known as Leftarm Isles) towards both Bandori and Marcher County. Given their island location, the inhabitants of God Forgot don't have much to fear from the hydrophobic Praxians.

There are "Brithini" in Refuge - that's their only sizeable settlement outside of the Leftarm Isles. I don't see any evidence for their presence outside ore east of Refuge.

 

[metcalph]

It's not clear that the counties belong to either Heortland or God Forgot.  The map on p246 is for Malkonwal, not Heortland.  I've a feeling that the Counties are responsible to the God-King directly rather than the KIng and Governor of Heortland.

A stronger argument would be to note that the population sidebar lists 628K people in Heortland.  Malkonwal has 300K, the Hendriki have 273K, the three counties 52K giving a total of 625K.  Not conclusive as to the nature of the Marcher County people (the 5K of Refugee are still God Forgotten) but culturally Heortlander rather than God Forgotten seems a safer bet.

[Joerg]

The Esvulari and the Pelaskites from the Vulari peninsula (just northwest of God Forgot) were reckoned to be part of the Hendriki kingdom already in the days of Aventus.

Fazzur chose (or was ordered) to leave the Bandori alone after his victory over Rikard. We don't know whether Rikard claimed authority over the Bandori, or whether he supported (or continued to support) the marchers as a shield against Praxian or Lunar aggression from the east.

I still like the concept of one major fortress holding enough cavalrists to make a sally in force, occupied when the king of Hendrikiland provides for the warriors, and reduced to a self-sufficient skeleton crew as small as the independent marcher "barons" in their own little fortified steads (or more likely steads with a stronghouse to retreat into in case the nomads come in force). I would expect it to be younger than Exilestead aka Barbarian town further north in the foothills. It might have started as a semi-fortified assembly ground for the local levies, possibly expanded into a more permanent structure during or shortly after Andrin the Mover's reign. Under Belintar I expect something like a half-strength to full strength force to be garrisoned here, possibly depending on the availability of mercenaries and the need for them here or elsewhere.

[M Helsdon]

I still like the concept of one major fortress holding enough cavalrists to make a sally in force, occupied when the king of Hendrikiland provides for the warriors, and reduced to a self-sufficient skeleton crew as small as the independent marcher "barons" in their own little fortified steads (or more likely steads with a stronghouse to retreat into in case the nomads come in force). I would expect it to be younger than Exilestead aka Barbarian town further north in the foothills. It might have started as a semi-fortified assembly ground for the local levies, possibly expanded into a more permanent structure during or shortly after Andrin the Mover's reign. Under Belintar I expect something like a half-strength to full strength force to be garrisoned here, possibly depending on the availability of mercenaries and the need for them here or elsewhere.

There's no "major fortress" on recent maps; there seem to be numerous lesser fortresses throughout Marcher County.

I suspect any definitive answer is going to have to await the Holy Country book.

[Jeff]

 Im starting a new game for a group of friends who have never played BRP/Runequest  and who know nothing about Glorantha and I decided to start them  in the Knight Fort area between the Holy Country and Prax shortly after the Lunar conquest of Prax..

 I was wondering if there is any official information on Knights Fort beside its location on Maps of Prax?

 My view ( Or at least in my game) Is it the major trading center for trade between Prax and the Holy Country and  being where Prax , Heortland and God's Forgot come together it has a very mixed population. So you can have a very mixed group of players.Its name suggest Malkoni Origin but its seems to be in Heortland.

 Also does anyone know what form of Sorcery  is Practiced On God's Forgot/ Right arm Island?

Knight Fort (a sloppy translation of what is probably is just Horseman's Fort) is in the Marcher County. It is an old fort, built (or even rebuilt) during the 1300s to stop Praxian raids into God Forgot and Heortland. In its heyday, it may have mustered as many as 200 armored horse (recruited primarily from Heortland), and had a garrison of as many as 1000 archers and spear - more than enough to stop all but the most determined Praxian invasions.
Since 1616, Knight Fort has had little outside support and its garrison has trickled down to a few score mercenaries, who rule over the surrounding farmers (who are mostly Barntar farmers). Its ruler is a petty Bandori strongman, allied with the city of Refuge. The Fortress Lord (or whatever he calls himself) likely acknowledged Lunar overlordship from 1620 to 1622, and conveniently ignored that after 1623 or so. Not sure anyone actually noticed on way or another.

[Noita]

Time for one if us to go make that fort our own....

[Evilroddy]

My memory is that Knight Fort is very old and its origins lost to memory. My memory is also that after the failed Starbrow Rebellion fugitive Sartarite warriors joined Broyan Volsaxsson in garrisoning the ancient fort as mercenaries for the Heortlands' governor-king from 1613 to late 1615. Broyan's garrison was replaced in Earth Season 1615 by Rokari knights and mercenaries who garrisoned the fort until the fall of Tigerheart in 1620. After that the garrison's personnel becomes more vague. I suspect that some of this was from Jeorg's version of the Heortlands history but I cannot actually remember how much is his and how much came from the KoDP.

In my campaign, the fort had a small Aeolian garrison and an Aeolian baron. This small force was augmented by mercenaries bought and paid for by the Heortlands' governor-king using the Pharaoh's revenues. These mercenaries were Orlanthi and Aeolian, then Rokari and finally (after the Talar's conquest of the south) God Forgotters at various times from 1613-1624. After 1624 things deteriorated badly and the fort's garrison was much smaller and ad hoc in nature.

Cheers and good gaming.

Evilroddy.

Edited July 7, 2016 by Evilroddy

[Jeff]

17 minutes ago, Evilroddy said:

My memory is that Knight Fort is very old and its origins lost to memory. My memory is also that after the failed Starbrow Rebellion fugitive Sartarite warriors joined Broyan Volsaxsson in garrisoning the ancient fort as mercenaries for the Heortlands' governor-king from 1613 to late 1615. Broyan's garrison was replaced in Earth Season 1615 by Rokari knights and mercenaries who garrisoned the fort until the fall of Tigerheart in 1620. After that the garrison's personnel becomes more vague. I suspect that some of this was from Jeorg's version of the Heortlands history but I cannot actually remember how much is his and how much came from the KoDP.

In my campaign, the fort had a small Aeolian garrison and an Aeolian baron. This small force was augmented by mercenaries bought and paid for by the Heortlands' governor-king using the Pharaoh's revenues. These mercenaries were Orlanthi and Aeolian, then Rokari and finally (after the Talar's conquest of the south) God Forgotters at various times from 1613-1624. After 1624 things deteriorated badly and the fort's garrison was much smaller and ad hoc in nature.

Cheers and good gaming.

Evilroddy.

Knight Fort iikely dates back to the Second Age when it would have defended the Zistorites and their allies against Praxians and Pure Horse Folk. But I'm not 100% sure of that.

King Broyan was not the garrison commander of Knight Fort.

[Mankcam]

So its a Heortland outpost, its sounds like once allied to both the Hendreiki and the Esvulari, but now semi-autonomous and almost forgotten about. 

It probably did have God Learner Cataphracts proudly manning it before the distasters at the end of The Second Age, and it may have had another name. Knights Fort and Horsemans Fort may have been what locales casually referred to it, and it just stuck over time.

I like that it keeps the title Knights Fort more out of a sense of its own self importance, rather than any current mandated knights operating from the site. Perhaps it is garrisoned by a patchwork bunch of mercenaries of mixed ethnicity, Esvulari, Hendreiki, Esrolian, and a few ring-ins from elsewhere; and ruled by a canny rudimentary Lord of Aeolian philosophy, who does have family legacy to the region and protectorate of the Marcher Barons. Sounds like the fort may be a bit neglected and a shadow of its former self. Possibly a place where dishonored warriors and criminals can regain their worth by servitude perhaps ... not unlike The Men Of The Nights Watch from Game of Thrones.

Does not sound like it will be a pivotal location in any upcoming epic campaigns to be published, which makes it an excellent location for a GM sandbox setting

Edited July 7, 2016 by Mankcam

[Joerg]

We learned a lot about Broyan since back in 1994 when I wrote up my campaign background, and we received canonical information on the Esvulari (which was non-existent when I started fleshing out my campaign). In fact, the material we do have exploded since back then. Much of it is in a limbo wrt canonicity - Dragon Pass Land of Thunder, Thunder Rebels and Men of the Seas all provided detail for Heortland which was not included in the Guide, but - quite likely - for reasons of scale rather than post-canonical status. My old material on Heortland was mainly based on the less than four pages of information in King of Sartar, the Genertela Box and the RQ Companion, recycling some of the stuff written for How the West Was One, and reading the maps.

IMO the Marcher Barons maintain a steady, small garrison and stewardship over Knight Fort while managing their slightly fortified manors (that are sufficient to ward of a normal raid, but nothing more) and the adjacent marginal agriculture and their herds, and use it as impenetrable retreat whenever stronger trouble bodes. At such time, they may also field a joint cavalry force that may be allied/hired in Praxian conflicts.

They may attract mercenaries, and the governor-king of Heortland probably had a detachment of mercenaries or followers out there, too.

[Evilroddy]

Correction:

My heat-addled brain caused me to write KoDP instead of KoS (King of Sartar) in my earlier post. Apologies.

[TRose]

 OK thanks for all the replies that have come in.

.

 My Knight Fort has  one  major Fort , built on top of a Gods Learner Fort that was built on ruins of a Gods Age Fort. In fact its the 8th known Fort known to be built there. there.( Are there secret Ruins under there? Who knows). The outlying villages tend to be walled often no more then  a dirt mound covered with thorn bushes for the smaller and poorer ones, as  Barbarian raiders are common.

  Besides local forces there is a number of mercenaries and Sartar exiles that work for the Knight Commander. The mercenaries are the usual motley collection and include Praxian from the losing side of Moonbroth, Sartarites, and other from the four corners of the earth. The population as I said is mixed with both Orthodox and Aeolians orlanthi and even a few traders from Gods Forgot.. The opening of the Seas and the Lunar conquest of Prax have both hurt trade in Knights Fort but some still goes on, A major caravan to the Block goes twice a year and is under the protection of the Urox temple there. No guards are provided by the Stormbulls but the High Shaman of the Block has stated if anyone interferes with his supply of Nochet wine coming in he will be very unhappy. And most people don't want to make a High Shaman of Urox unhappy.

[Erol of Backford]

This has been talked about in the past (Knight Fort location) but I noticed the AAA doesn't show Knight Fort.

I am guessing its somewhere near the spot indicated by the red arrow on the clip. Does this location look about right to everyone?

 

[metcalph]

2 hours ago, Erol of Backford said:

This has been talked about in the past (Knight Fort location) but I noticed the AAA doesn't show Knight Fort.

I am guessing its somewhere near the spot indicated by the red arrow on the clip. Does this location look about right to everyone?

 

Knight Fort is actually shown in the RQG Rulebook p121 as being on the river that flows near Monkey's Ruins (or five hexes north and one hex northeast)