jongjom Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Pages 28 to 30 used "wargod" five times maybe should be "War God" ? Page 30 "It was not until 947 that they dared show themselves in force, and they then challenged the weakened Jrusteli (now called the Middle Sea Empire) to another battle and won,sending their great island beneath the waves of death." is this meant to make it sound like Jrustela was sunk in 947, when it was actually in 1050 ST (Guide page 504) page 33 "Genert was among those Chaos devoured before destroying the Spike" maybe should be "Genert was among those that Chaos devoured before destroying the Spike" page 33 "Snakes wind around her lower arms and she often carries sheafs of grain or fruits" .maybe "Snakes wind around her lower arms and she often carries sheaves of grain or fruits" page 35 [Voria] "She is capable of discerning the least offence against her, and in those cases will call on her sister, Babeester Gor, to aid her." -- so with the least bit of offense she calls upon her big, bad sis? So don't even slightly diss a sweet, innocent Voria worshippers otherwise she'll get her sister to cut your balls off. Quite funny actually page 35 "Kero Fin, at whose feet was the Dragons’ Nest." should be "Kero Fin, at whose feet was the Dragon’s Nest." page 36 "When the Blue Dragon led the invasion of the Water gods to conquer the Earth, Orlanth defeated him and sent his broken remnants north to make the Oslir Sea." or is this meant to be: "broken remnants north to make the Oslir River." page 36 "Gata, born at the Dragon Nest of the Ancient One." maybe "Gata, born at the Dragon’s Nest of the Ancient One." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongjom Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Page 33 "was during the Golden Age, conmythory to the" -- not a misprint as "conmythory" was used all the way back to Wyrm's Footprints 9. And the only reference on the Internet was Martin's earlier remark saying he was baffled by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, metcalph said: My understanding is that the Dragon of Jarn is the Brown Dragon. Perhaps, but the Guide - in an in-world unreliable text - says the dragon of the Dragonrise was previously unknown, and the Dragon of Jarn was known in 1622 ST. As the New Lunar Temple was being constructed in 1621 if not earlier, a True Dragon at the site or sneaking about at the surface might have been noticed? At the very least, given the devastation surrounding the dragon in 1622, it should have been spotted by any competent surveyor. I don't know the canon answer, which is why I raised the comment. Edited December 4, 2016 by M Helsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 20 minutes ago, jongjom said: Page 33 "was during the Golden Age, conmythory to the" -- not a misprint as "conmythory" was used all the way back to Wyrm's Footprints 9. And the only reference on the Internet was Martin's earlier remark saying he was baffled by it. Suspect it is humor using the obscure slang term mythory - a mixture of myth and history - with the prefix con-/com- meaning 'with,' 'together,' or 'in association.' However, as I'm not certain I raised the comment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 4 hours ago, jongjom said: no mention of the Ice Sea in the Guide it's just another name for the White or Keniryan Sea and think that's the context of the sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 1 hour ago, jongjom said: "Kero Fin, at whose feet was the Dragon’s Nest." That depends on whether it was the nest of one dragon or many. I think the plural is correct here. 1 hour ago, jongjom said: north to make the Oslir Sea." or is this meant to be: "broken remnants north to make the Oslir River." It's been both, so either is correct. 19 minutes ago, M Helsdon said: Suspect it is humor using the obscure slang term mythory - a mixture of myth and history - with the prefix con-/com- meaning 'with,' 'together,' or 'in association.' I agree and believe it is a way to imply something akin to "contemporary" in a context where no time exists. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongjom Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 59 minutes ago, jajagappa said: That depends on whether it was the nest of one dragon or many. I think the plural is correct here. Dragon’s Nest is the name given in the Guide (page 682, 708), in particular page 682 talks about it in relation to Kero Fin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongjom Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 1 hour ago, jajagappa said: it's just another name for the White or Keniryan Sea and think that's the context of the sentence. I agree, but two names is enough for one place! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 2 hours ago, jajagappa said: I agree and believe it is a way to imply something akin to "contemporary" in a context where no time exists. The final decision is of course the authors', but I can't help but feel that the use of obscure slang is a little disingenuous? It slams the reader to a halt with the thought - what does that mean? Some people will 'get it', others won't. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 7 hours ago, M Helsdon said: Perhaps, but the Guide - in an in-world unreliable text - says the dragon of the Dragonrise was previously unknown, and the Dragon of Jarn was known in 1622 ST. As the New Lunar Temple was being constructed in 1621 if not earlier, a True Dragon at the site or sneaking about at the surface might have been noticed? At the very least, given the devastation surrounding the dragon in 1622, it should have been spotted by any competent surveyor. The document was in a restricted section of the Boldhome Knowledge Temple meaning that it's not common knowledge. Although the document was written in 1622 ST, the actual encounter may have been some years earlier. My personal guess is that any lunar spy worth his salt would break into the restricted section of the Boldhome library on a regular basis just because it's there. Assuming Garstal is not stupid, he may be deliberately writing false information in order to dupe the Lunars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 5, 2016 Share Posted December 5, 2016 5 hours ago, metcalph said: The document was in a restricted section of the Boldhome Knowledge Temple meaning that it's not common knowledge. Although the document was written in 1622 ST, the actual encounter may have been some years earlier. True, but you can't hide a True Dragon so close to the surface, and if it had subsequently buried itself at the site of the New Lunar Temple there would have been unmistakable dragon-sign. True Dragons seem to become part of the landscape by going to sleep and then becoming buried over Time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 (edited) Page 150: Black Horse Country – should be - Black Horse County Page 150: Ethrilrst – should be – Ethilrist Page 150: and raised the new city of Alone – might be - and founded the new city of Alone Page 151: King’s List – some entries start with an indent, some do not. Page 153: geas and taboos – might be - geases and taboos Page 153: As a result, Moirades became the third King of Dragon Pass – third is incorrect, should be sixth (KoS page 30). Page 154: King Storm Kahn – should be - King Storm Khan Page 154: Western barbarians – probably - western barbarians - or more probably - Western Barbarians Edited December 17, 2016 by M Helsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 Page 16: Hykimi – might be – Hykim Page 16: Man-form Rune – might be - Man-Form Rune General: surface world is sometimes Surface World. Suggest the latter should be used. Page 20: the Basmoli Lion-People of the Mislari Mountains to the south have retained their brotherhood – by the Third Age only Caroni Hsunchen are found there? The Guide says there are Basmoli in Ralios, but not where. Page 155: rebel gods – might be – Rebel Gods Page 156: with younger military men of his close kin – might be - with the younger military men of his close kin Page 157: appeared in the Choralinthor Bay – might be - appeared in Choralinthor Bay Page 161: companions and households – should be - companions and household Page 161: was without heir – possibly - was without an heir Page 162: to the Choralinthor Bay – might be - to Choralinthor Bay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 1 hour ago, M Helsdon said: Page 20: the Basmoli Lion-People of the Mislari Mountains to the south have retained their brotherhood – by the Third Age only Caroni Hsunchen are found there? The Guide says there are Basmoli in Ralios, but not where. The reference is to Basim (Guide p394) which nests on the Mislari Mountains. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 9 minutes ago, metcalph said: The reference is to Basim (Guide p394) which nests on the Mislari Mountains. The Basmol clan of Basim abandoned their Hsunchen heritage in favor of Orlanthi ways by the Third Age. The Dialogues are believed to be circa 1480? So unless the Basmol clan changed their traditions in the last 150 years or so or the Dialogues are very much older (pre-Third Age?), there's a potential discrepancy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metcalph Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, M Helsdon said: The Basmol clan of Basim abandoned their Hsunchen heritage in favor of Orlanthi ways by the Third Age. The Dialogues are believed to be circa 1480? So unless the Basmol clan changed their traditions in the last 150 years or so or the Dialogues are very much older (pre-Third Age?), there's a potential discrepancy. The Guide is a dispassionate description. The Dialogues are not. Given that the rulers of Basim still worship Basmol, I do not believe that any civilized Ralian would not refer to them as Basmoli regardless of how Orlanthi they may be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 (edited) 9 minutes ago, metcalph said: The Guide is a dispassionate description. The Dialogues are not. Given that the rulers of Basim still worship Basmol, I do not believe that any civilized Ralian would not refer to them as Basmoli regardless of how Orlanthi they may be. True, but when making comments it isn't possible to second guess the author. A reviewer comments, knowing that comments will be rejected as invalid. Better to highlight a possibly discrepancy, than not to: if a comment is invalid, little of the author's time is wasted; if a comment is valid but not made for fear it will be rejected, however... Edited December 16, 2016 by M Helsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 (edited) Page 22: THE FATHER OF DEMONS AND THE MOTHER OF SPACE – might be - THE FATHER OF DEMONS and THE MOTHER OF SPACE Page 22: while the mother – should be - while the Mother Page 23: He greets the dead who have been guided or hounded to him, then the council (Daka Fal) – seems to be some confusion in this sentence as ‘he’ is Daka Fal, not the council? Page 23: mentioned elsewhere this issue – should be - mentioned elsewhere [But see next comment] Page 23: Six Earths – this phrase is not used anywhere else in the document. Suggest they be listed, under this title, in the Deities of the Earth chapter. Page 23: to an eternal glory of fighting for eternity – suggest - to an everlasting glory of fighting for eternity Page 23: god of Undead – suggest - god of Undeath Page 23: should this section mention the Chaos goddess Valkalta who is in the Underworld? Page 24: plead mercy – might be - plead for mercy Page 24: as his wife and his trolls – should be - as his wife, and his trolls Page 24: 475 ST – should be – 375 ST General: Neleom – should be - Neleomi Page 26: Sea of Worms – might be - Swermela Sea – or - Worm Sea Page 26: Ice Sea – suggest - Keniryan Sea Page 27: who is the only daughter among three children – might be - who is the only daughter among the three children Deities of Water: Should Veredth be mentioned? Page 27: World Edge – might be – World’s Edge Page 27: Last Stop Island – not mentioned in the Guide. Still canonical? Possibly refers to Nowhere Land? Page 29: when the Great Dark rules the world – might be - when the Great Dark ruled the world Page 29: Since then she has never risen again – the Blue Streak is a remnant of the Blue Moon [suspect canon has changed] Page 29: sometimes as much as one-half mile long and a quarter-mile wide – Guide says: Waertagi dragonships […] are a mile or more long [Reading this again, I'm not certain if the Sourcebook is saying dragonships could be one-and-a-half miles long or half a mile long - possibly the former, but it isn't clear.] Page 29: Seshnegi Empire(s) – suggest – Seshnegi Empire Edited December 17, 2016 by M Helsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 Just noticed that Rob Heinsoo posted about this exercise in the Kickstarter comments a few days ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 Page 32: fairy tales – suggest – fables Page 33: and they have replaced his name with that of PAMALT, who served a similar function but never died – no, Pamalt was the southern equivalent, suggest – and their land god is PAMALT, who served a similar function but never died Page 33: Thus when Asrelia was a young goddess she was called Spring’s Handmaiden; when she matured, she became Ernalda; and in the Darkness, she was Asrelia – I believe this might read - Thus when Asrelia was a young goddess she was called Spring’s Handmaiden, Voria; when she matured, she became Ernalda; and in the Darkness, she was Asrelia [This contradicts another section but that’s the nature of myth] Page 34: Imarja philosophy – might be - Imarjan philosophy Page 34: The Six Sisters – are these the Six Earths? Page 36: and went to a frozen sleep – might be - and went into a frozen sleep Page 36: when he cleansed the land of the antigod Oorsu Sara’s curse – might be – Sekever’s curse [Sekever possibly another name for Oorsu Sara, which is an East Isles name?] Page 36: and together she gave birth – might be - and together gave birth [Sramak is hermaphrodite] Page 36: Ehilm and Orlanth – as this paragraph is using Enerali names might be – Ehilm and Humat Page 37: After carrying for them in her bleak cavern – should be - After caring for them in her bleak cavern Page 38: such as the Sun, Lightfore, the planets and stars – Lightfore is a planet? Page 39: Lightfore, a favorite worshipper whose story is told below – perhaps, there’s a brief mention on the next page, but not the mentioned story. Page 39: Lux, Ourania, and Pole Star – might be - Arraz, Ourania, and Pole Star Page 40: (herself a daughter of Larnste (Change, or Mobility Rune) and Harana Ilor (Harmony Rune)) – clumsy, suggest - ,herself a daughter of Larnste (Change or Mobility Rune) and Harana Ilor (Harmony Rune) Page 42: Sunstop (175 S.T.) – should be - Sunstop (375 S.T.) Page 42: Lightfore has a section header but should probably be LIGHTFORE under the Planetary Gods header. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oracle Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, M Helsdon said: ... Page 38: such as the Sun, Lightfore, the planets and stars – Lightfore is a planet? ... It seems so: Quote Sartar Companion, p.40, sidebar: Venebain ...Venebain is identified with the planet Lightfore. Edited December 18, 2016 by Oracle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jajagappa Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 3 hours ago, M Helsdon said: Page 34: The Six Sisters – are these the Six Earths? They are distinct. The Six Sisters are the six daughters of Asrelia: Ernalda, Esrola, Maran, Delaeo, Delaina, and Orana. (as noted on page 34) The Six Earths are the three earth pairs: Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek, Ernalda/Maran Gor, Voria/Babeester Gor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 (edited) Page 46: The five sons of Umath, by order of birth, are: Kolat, Storm Bull, Vadrus, Humakt, and Orlanth – no mention of Ragnaglar? [Might be left intentionally for the reader to work out.] Page 47: palace in far north – should be - palace in the far north Page 48: from the east, resurrected – might be - from the east, was resurrected Page 53: all Dead imprisoned – might be - all the Dead imprisoned Page 55: before the tread – should be - before they tread Page 55: spells care to light – should be - spells came to light Page 56: an aid to Orlanth – might be - an aide to Orlanth Page 56: Lady of the Wild – might be - Lady of the Wilds Page 56: Janeerra Alone – should be - Janerra Alone Page 61: In God-time – should be – In the God Time Page 62: Foremost in his father’s (the Devil’s) favor was Tien – suggest – Foremost in the Devil’s favor was his son Tien [Have made a previous comment on this, which this comment supplants.] Page 62: which used strategy – suggest - which used a strategy Edited December 18, 2016 by M Helsdon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 18, 2016 Share Posted December 18, 2016 1 hour ago, jajagappa said: The Six Earths are the three earth pairs: Asrelia/Ty Kora Tek, Ernalda/Maran Gor, Voria/Babeester Gor. This explanation is missing from the Sourcebook. It might be simplest to delete the reference... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M Helsdon Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Page 63: Kralorian Empire – in the Guide - Kralorelan Empire Page 63: Kralori Empire - in the Guide - Kralorelan Empire Page 67: Caladrians – [twice on this page] in the Guide – Caladralanders Page 68: traveled Esrolia – might be – traveled in Esrolia Page 68: Two hundred years before the Dawn – do ‘years’ have any meaning before Time? Might be better as - Even before the Dawn - or similar Page 68: entered live into the lands of the dead – might be - entered alive into the lands of the dead [Though this contradicts other statements] Page 68: net upon Kajabor – one of the (intentional) examples of confusing Kajabor and Wakboth? Page 69: against their will, and even. The victory of Arachne Solara – should be - against their will, and even the victory of Arachne Solara Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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