davecake

I think it isn’t permitted to Zorak Zoran, but those damn Illuminated Arkati just go and do it anyway. Cheats.

I definitely think that the spirit of HQ is to use Group Simple Contests routinely for battles. Even if you only use Extended Contests for climactic battles, they can still get a bit long and dull, as the players have so few tactical choices. I have been toying with the idea that on victory in a round of an Extended Contest, instead of the normal consequences, a situational modifier or augment can be removed from the loser. Usually this works pretty well narratively, and makes it tactically much more interesting. Eg the attacker dispels or counters your magical augment, or disarms you so your cool weapon is out of your hands. Also, giving major NPCs sidekicks is an interesting way to make a single NPC or two take on an entire group without making them simply much more powerful than the PCs (being much more powerful than the PCs tends to emphasise luck and spending Hero Points over tactics).

A Thane is a noble, and many PCs are Thanes. Clans have nobles, not just tribes. Absolutely Noble should be an OK PC profession. Make them the head of a major stead, or the child of a major NPC thane. Chariot drivers are not particularly urban - kind of the opposite, actually, they are a very old-fashioned thing. There aren't any normally in the Red Cow, but of course your PC could be the only one (perhaps they joined from another clan?). They could be the chariot driver for a major NPC, which leads to fun conflicts of loyalty. While many entertainers are travellers, the Red Cow could easily support a clan skald. A Philosopher or Scribe would have been trained in Jonstown, but no reason you could not have a PC who was trained in Jonstown but has returned to the clan for some reason (perhaps their parent died and they need to look after family). A civilised city philosopher drawn back to clan life sounds like it is full of roleplaying potential. They would have to return to Jonstown for holy day rites. I agree on Thief - though same rule applies, if you really wanted to let them be a character who has come to the clan from elsewhere for some reason (such as exile or de facto exile (eg they fled enemies) from their home city). They'd have to be lying about their shady past obviously. In general, my philosophy is any single PC that does not fit the strict requirements is a fun story generator, as long as the majority of the party fit the main themes.

They do not all actively serve in her personal bodyguard, which in any case is large. Pretty much every Humakti in the Grazelands is in this sub-cult. There aren't really many sub-cults that are too specialised for PCs - they already have all the combat etc magic they need from the main cult, so my experience is many players treat sub-cult as a bit of a roleplaying issue. And the default campaign setting for RQG (and the original Sartar HQ campaign setting) is very close to the Upland Marsh, and the Six Stones Humakt temple. I think I've had two PCs in this sub-cult in my games. But one of the few sub-cults that is common in Prax. And not that specialised, as he is more of a generic undead fighter, and undead are pretty much the generic Humakti antagonists (including Zorak Zoran undead).

That sounds more like a Lhankor Mhy Sword sage to me. I guess you could initiate into both, or make an associated sub-cult. Humakt does not judge by the law of the community. Humakt judges by honor. For most serious crimes in Orlanthi community, one of the worst punishments is exile. Humakt would absolutely argue that it is better to be exiled than dishonoured.

I think that’s a bit of an overstatement. Greg was very knowledgeable of a wide range of animist and ecstatic traditions all over the world, and only got detailed knowledge of Indigenous Australian traditions fairly late in Gloranthas history AFAIK. I’m sure it as a source, but one among many. And I think the Dreamtime and the song lines might be more influential on the Spirit World than the God Time.

You say ‘not for practical purpose’, but I think that is exactly backwards. For magical and spiritual purposes, it may or may not matter. For practical purposes, it matters a great deal whether you have travelled there physically or spiritually (in RQ terms, in the mundane world or the Spirit Plane). And to acquire the magical knowledge that might allow you to travel there in the Spirit World, you probably should travel there physically first, so you can do things like learn the right songs, interact with sacred plants and animals, etc. The song lines songs often include the knowledge of how to physically get to the next site on the line, and to learn a whole song you must travel along the line. And of course never assume that just because someone is an animist spiritual healer etc that they are not practical. My wife once attempted a seminar given by central Australian ngangkari traditional spiritual healers, talking about their work to medical staff from the hospital there, and their differing roles. They explained (in their language, through a translator) how they travelled a lot, they would travel to someone who was in distress and talk to them (sometimes a journey of hundreds of km), and often their diagnosis would be that when they travelled they had left part of their spirit behind, and the ngangkari would have to travel back to where the Spirit was, retrieve it, and then reunite it with the owner. During the following question and answer session, a doctor spoke up and asked how they communicated over such great distances to know where they were needed and coordinate getting around. They looked at the questioner incredulously, and held up their mobile phone. And also explained that they usually travelled these great distances in a ‘Toyota Land Cruiser’.

There are multiple entities in the Gods War game that are not much known in Glorantha Lore so far, mostly giant monsters. Anyone know any more about: The Behemoth (the massive dinosaurish Earth being) Specters - commanded by the Malkioni - appear to be elementals that combine 4 different elements - Sandy once described ( http://glorantha.temppeli.org/digest/gd1/1995.01/0503.html ) some very dangerous Illusionary beings called Specters, but these seem beings of elemental power not Illusion and Illusion specters were found mostly in the East Isles, so don't sound like the same beings at all. The Kraken - sea monster second only to Magasta The Leviathan - cosmic monster, recorded in the Guide as the Island Beast, but that is about all we know about it, no history or interaction with other beings. Anaxials Roster mentions Golatis the Behemoth is one of the parents of Oralza the Roc in Malkioni cosmology. More likely the Behemoth is the same being as the Green Behemoth, who patrols the shoreline of Generts Garden. The guide mentions kraken, but not The Kraken. Anything else?

I’m not. Quite aside from the wackiness and fun of Kivolic sex magic, the Austerity Wars stuff in RM clearly suggests that there is more to it, including the ‘correct’ practice of other forms of magic. But the question, in both game terms and in terms of ‘paradigm’, is whether this is a different form of magic, or just some way of mystically enhancing other magic. We don’t seem to have a good answer currently. Though it is interesting to note that if we considered the RQ3 Red Goddess magic as a form of special magic available only to Illuminates that enhances spirit magic, that would fit the description very closely. I tend to think that it allows humans (who have acquired draconic Illumination) to ignore the normal restrictions on what magic they can use (as Illumination does), and the EWF then is able to teach the Dragon magic normally only available to dragonnewts. Of course, we know very little about Dragon magic. But that is, of course, not the only think you can do with (and much other EWF experimentation used Illumination to explore the Green Age or combine other magical practices and so on - the EWF was a huge empire and magical movement, far more complex than a single cult or set of practices). And Darudism is a whole thing again. The Path of Immanent Mastery is probably false Mysticism, trying to run the mystic transformation idea backwards. And I simply don’t think we currently know enough about Darudism. I think this is slightly confused. Refutation is the orthodox practice, and does not consist of austerities but Venformism is different, and designed for those who found the pure Mysticism of Oorduren too hard (eg mortals unable to spend meditating). Sivolic practice is about austerities. Do not confuse pure meditation with ascetism etc, though it might appear that way to us. In general IRL mysticism, there is the idea that the goal of mysticism is that pure moment of spiritual insight, but that requires silencing all distractions, including those of the body and mind, and much practice is required to control the body and mind enough to be able to quiet them. Magic powers might be gained along the way in the way, but it’s a tool along the journey, not the destination. Austerities are practices that are useful, but not of real value themselves for someone who wants to disengage from the world. Totally. But venfornism is not refutation, and orthodox mystics who practice Refutation only might not be very fun PCs. The Red Moon strikes me as exactly that. And FWIW, so does the Dragonnewts dream to me. And the Empire of Avanapdur. Quite possibly the Bright Empire did build such an area in Dorastor, only we see only echoes and shadows now.

Well, I agree to a point, but making Ven Fornic martial arts magic nothing more than a few Ironhand and Strength spells seems just smushing everything potentially unique and interesting about it into nothing, including more or less totally ignoring the 'austerity' idea. Giving your martial monk a few magic powers based on the exercise of austerities seems much more interesting (and rules wise could be done by various mechanisms, but something like gifts and geases seems a fairly obvious one that doesn't require a lot of extra rules or special cases. Sort of - but I think the current paradigm is a bit more along the lines of: mystic magic is only for the Illuminated, the most important practical effects of Illumination (as opposed to trying to reflect mystical spiritual liberation in game terms) are those that Cosmplogical Transformation of the self can also transform the Illuminates approach to other magic (mostly removing restrictions on its practice), including unlocking access to some magic that may be fundamentally of a different form but is still available only to the Illuminated. There seem to be magical paths that certainly appear as Rune magic (or spirit or sorcery), but that are unlocked to be far more powerful and flexible with Illumination, sometimes such that they seem to be designed that way (notably the Lunars). The difference between mystics who are able to access Big Cheesy spell effects directly through mysticism, and mystics who are able to access big Cheesy spell effects by using mysticism to unlock the potential of other forms of magic is in some ways a very important one (and at the heart of these discussions), but the presence or absence of Big Cheesiness is a little bit beside the point. And also it is not so much about magic that is gained only at Rune level, as about magic that is most effective only when Illuminated. Dayzatar is a pretty good example here. Perhaps Dayzatar is an example of example of un-mystic theist magic that is powered by ascetism. Or perhaps it is an example of a very conservative form of mysticism. Either way, Dayzatar has access to limited but powerful magic subject to maintaining an ascetic lifestyle, and an Illuminated Dayzatar mystic is able to access that powerful magic but under much less restriction, making it a more practical path that still has access to some powerful magic - and this sort of thing seems like exactly the sort of thing that mystic followers of Nysalor or Sheng Seleris might do. The Lunars are another example. Their magic does not seem to be notably different in its effects when used by the un-Illuminated, and you can treat it as a mostly Rune magic using tradition that also has Spirit and sorcery using traditions within it. But it both leads the user towards Illumination, and becomes significantly more powerful and flexible when used by an Illuminate (including access to some magic that is both Big and Cheesy - the Red Goddess magic (which differs hugely in RQ3 and RQG GoG, but in neither case is subtle)). I'd like Darja Danad etc to be of this nature - not simply a cult that provides the same magic as anyone else, but rather a cult whose magic is a little different (and perhaps cumbersome), and whose potential radically unlocks when practiced by the Illuminated. You seem to be suggesting a model where cults like Darja Danad has normal magic, and Illumination, and the two don't really interact. If Darja Danads martial arts magic is just Ironhand 4 or whatever, that isn't really 'powered using mystical insight' in any useful way. If you define that any magic provided by a mystical institution as mystical magic then there's plenty of Eastern isles mystics that might agree with you but ruleswise, mysticism shouldn't be providing magic. 1) even if we define mystic making strictly as Illumination, Illumination provides some subtle but useful magic itself, that seems to be entirely of mystic origin. Let's not get wrapped up in absolutes. And let's also note that the list of powers available to an Illuminate is deliberately left open - I think it's the list of powers known to Nysaloran Illumination, but when we eventually deep dive into other forms of mysticism it might end up extended a little. 2) sure, I'm perfectly happy if Darja Danad etc end up with some magic that seems strictly mystic, but mostly a lot of magic that is described by other systems and just practiced by the institutions. Given the way RQG divine cults all have Spirit Magic, and Spirit Cults have divine magic, you could argue that this sort of loose nomenclature is, in fact, the vast majority of the ways we talk about magical institutions of any kind, so why should we approach mysticism differently? Obviously, but the whole basic of the Austerity War, Sivolic magic, etc is that from various practices of abstinence and austerity magic powers may be gained. So saying the accompanying powers are not austerities in themselves is just ignore the Gloranthan context, which seems unhelpful. That it is a rather cheap geas is rather the point. Without mysticism, the magic gained is limited (how many austere mystic practices can you maintain at once?) and may be both limiting and impractical. But add Illumination and it becomes a much cheaper and more flexible path. It is different to the Yelmalions and Humakti only in that, not (currently) embracing mysticism neither of those cults embraces the idea that they may become a more practical path to power for the Transformed Mystic (of course, either Yelmalio as Darsenerus, or Humakt under Arkat, might have done so)

It has its pros and cons. In general I prefer RQG, but I house rule both. All I was saying that if you wanted to go with the HW paradigm of mysticism as a separate form of magic, Mythras shows that it is possible to do it fairy well. I don't care in the least whether you buy the rules. I just think you arguing or criticising them without reading them is pointless. You could read them and keep arguing about them (only marginally less pointless if you are only interested in current Gloranthan canon, which clearly has taken a different path), or not argue about them. My point is only that they demonstrate that a perfectly good set of RQ like rules could have been created on the HW paradigm of mysticism. The current approach is that mysticism is, roughly speaking, Illumination and very little else. It doesn't really have an explanation for any use of magic by mystics beyond 'you must be confused and its something else', but its also obvious there is a little bit more going on. At the very least, RQG allows for forms of Rune magic that are only accessible to the Illuminated (the Red Goddess cult being an example, at least according to the GoG preview, though of course info in the preview may have changed). But there is an intermediate stage, which is the paradigm of understanding how mysticism works. IF you go with the paradigm of mystic magic use represented in HW material, which is based IMO on a fairly literal reading of much of the RM material, then Mythras rules demonstrate that it is not that hard to construct a system that does that. The 'problem' with the mysticism = Illumination paradigm is that currently we have no explanation for any of the magical abilities used by any of the mystics in revealed mythology of any kind, or any obvious means of doing so (as Venfornism etc or orthodox mysticism are not obviously Rune, Spirit or Sorcerous magic, for the most part, yet manifest significant magic abilities). I certainly don't doubt that such an explanation *could* be created, but I don't think it is obvious how it will be convincingly done by simply treating all RM magic as just Rune, Spirit or Sorcery magic. A little rethinking of how the magic systems fit together, and a bit of a deeper dive into 'Illumination', is necessary, and while I think that is possible (and indeed, have suggested mechanisms to do so, such as leaning into the gifts and geases idea to provide the 'austerities' based magic of RM), it hasn't been done yet. This isn't a big problem, unless you want to run a game that should use such magic a lot (eg an East Isles based game) using RQ like rules in the (presumably several years) before RQG gets around to it. So - if you think the RM material implies a magic system beyond 'the big three', and you want to write/run stuff compatible with that paradigm, then Mythras can do it. You don't even necessarily need to make a decision as to whether Ven Fornic magic is truely mystic or just 'mysticism compatible' or 'mysticism adjacent'. Though, FWIW, you could also model Illumination using the same system without much of a stretch. On the other hand, if you think all the magic use in RM can, or should be, modelled by magic that fits within the Rune/Spirit/Sorcery rules we know, and mysticism 'layered on top' as something Illuminates could achieve, that is certainly possible, but it hasn't been done. The current paradigm appropriately models the use of Mysticism within the Dragon Pass area, but is significantly incomplete for modelling eg the East Isles and other RM material. It is probably fair to say that filling in those gaps is a higher priority for me than for Chaosium.

That was more or less what I was saying, though I think you interpret the Guide a little rigidly. Think of the way the Seven Mothers is described in Pavis/HQG - the source of magic is clearly the Moon, but the Illuminated (by mastery of multiple Moon phases, or mastering the contradictory Life and Death powers of the goddess) are able to perform interesting magical feats. Ditto for Arkati combining normally incompatible forms of magic, etc. The Lunar system does seem a bit suspiciously designed to be particularly effective for Illuminates.

And it does seem rather a non-sequiter to me that, after saying that Mysticism systems that create Big Cheesy Effects and create a brand spanking magic system are bad, your proposed alternative seems to that we have a new system that allows Big effects, just they only kick in at Rune level? I’m somewhat struggling to understand why you dislike the HW paradigm, when your approach seems quite like it And I think any approach that explicitly says any useful Mysticism must have a rules implementation that is just explicitly one of the other forms of magic to be somewhat pointless. If you are going to work with the canon paradigm, it still needs to be distinct. For example, I like the idea that the martial artists use austerities to gain power (like gifts and geases), and then use their mystic insights to avoid the negative consequences (eg instead of permanent loss on breaking a geas, simply losing access to that power temporarily). That makes it distinct from other magic, but still about Mysticism allowing you to transcend the limits of other magic systems, rather than just a slight variation. I do also think that some Mysticism will be best done implemented by directly expanding the abilities of the Illuminated, but only some.

Well, quite a bit. Read the Mysticism chapter of the Mythras rules, and all will be revealed, but answering that question otherwise would essentially require summarizing the chapter. But very loosely, Meditation doubles as Intensity for Mysticism. And in the Mythras rules, each magic system had two associated skills, and the Illumination skill is clearly a much better fit for the Mysticism path skill. Your knowledge of the Mythras system appears to be more or less hearsay. It would be more productive to read it before entering into discussion about it. No, I’m describing HW Mysticism rules, and saying it was a more or less workable paradigm, even if the execution was badly done. In that paradigm Mysticism was sometimes Big and at least arguable often pretty Cheesy - Strikes were clearly intended as attacks of such power they ended a battle instantly (which they still often did, just usually by defeat for the wielder). It is true that they could be used for Big Cheesy Magic (and arguably, there is a need for some such, as there are certainly plenty of characters described as mystics who wield Big Cheesy Magic), but it could also do passive resistance magic (like an orthodox mystic in HW), and subtler forms like Illumination, and some unique effects that I kind of liked (like the Aura effect). It’s true some of those effects overlapped with effects you can get from other magic systems - but the other three magic systems all have such overlap too. I’m not saying the HW Mysticism matches current canon ideas about Mysticism, just that it was a conceptually workable approach to Mysticism whose deepest flaws were in poor system design, not conceptually - and if you preferred that paradigm to the current canon approach, Mythras could implement it workable. And you could argue that it matches the Revealed Mythology material better than the current approach.

It’s not as simple as game balance. The big problem with Strikes isn’t that they are a weak option, but rather that they are supposed to be powerful and instead are a very weak option, because the maths works differently to the designers intended (not to discredit Robin’s basic design, many issues with HW were all more specific issues introduced later in the design process). I generally don’t have any big issues with game balance issues when they are intentional - but I doubt that was what was intended here. The rules seem designed for mystics to start weak and become powerful. Instead, they start weak and become somewhat embarrassing.

There will be rules for Illumination. And there will be cults that offer additional magical options to those who are Illuminated (though I assume only Lunar ones likely in the GoG book). That is pretty much all the mysticism rules required for central Genertela. There might be more rules required later (eg for Kralorela or the East Isles) but they will likely show up in that far future time when area specific source books for those areas appear. I'd personally like to see things expanded a little beyond that (eg a bit of detail on how various schools of Illumination differ). Maybe we will get that.

I'm not sure why you want to bring it up - we both agree the rules are bad, and this is the dim past, but the rules were very bad, effectively guaranteeing that playing a mystic in HW would be an exercise in frustration and masochism. There isn't much math, but what there is is terrible. Assuming you were a manifest, not an orthodox, mystic (as orthodox mystics were explicitly called out as unsuitable for adventure): - martial arts was assumed to be your main combat ability. Fine. - except you need to also learn two other abilities to roughly the same level (the Balance requirement) if you ever want to learn any magic ever. - while these three abilities are supposed to be your main magical defences in early play, they are all explicitly at -20 in magical contests. So, in early play, while your mystic starts capably in physical combat (presuming they use martial arts) but may lag behind due to the requirement to keep their mental (eg Meditation) and spiritual (eg philosophy) abilities within a few points of their combat ability. And these abilities are explicitly their magical defences, but at -20, so relying on them is essentially doomed. Then only when you have two masteries in each of these three disciplines (a point at which your non-mystic companions are cheerfully learning the deepest secrets of their god, requiring only one ability at that level to do so), you got to learn any magic at all, at a base 12. Most of these were only defensive in nature, so despite some nifty effects if you succeeded, were still at a low level likely to never win a contest compared to users of other magic systems (who instead of learning new abilities, were learning new feats to use their affinities with, so your new power at base levels will typically be trying to win the same contests your companions are using the core abilities they've been working on since character creation, so usually at two masteries). As it is required that all mystic powers are limited to your lowest disciple, if you somehow push your mystic powers up to the same level as non-mystics, then you effectively have to raise four abilities to raise a power a point. And note that to get the same sort of effect that other characters might get with a Talent - to be able to go without food or drink, or sleep - the rules mandate no less than THREE masteries! And mystic Strikes, the sole offensive powers given to mystics, not only labor under the same restrictions (all but guaranteeing it will be at a lower rating than any non-mystics comparable ability, and so using it almost guaranteeing you reduce your chances of winning a contest by doing so) but the rules guarantee than using a Strike and failing the contest results in complete defeat (you must always bet all your APs), but success doesn't guarantee you victory (in HW it is quite possible for an opponent to have a sufficiently large number of APs that they still survive, especially if you are already losing the contest). It is actually quite hard to construct a situation where using a Strike makes any kind of tactical sense, barring some sort of circumstances in which you have some sort of massive but very temporary circumstantial advantage over an opponent. It's not just a hail mary, but one that is stacked against you - it doesn't guarantee a win even if you succeed against the odds, especially if you are already losing, but it does guarantee a failure will be catastrophic. And then, just to make it all but impossible, not only do the maths mean that Strikes are all but guaranteed to be a relatively low ranked ability, by limiting the level and starting it low, if you fail to succeed with a Strike the ability level is lowered. Mystic Strikes don't even make much sense if the ability isn't artificially kept low (such as the many HW secrets written to act as Strikes). As one of the HW 'Gang of Eight' rules consultants who stepped in to try to last minute edit the HW rules to improve the quality, I can guarantee that the terrible assumptions about the maths were rife in early drafts of the rules, and mysticism was never really play tested properly nor did we end up devoting much effort to fix it due to time constraints - mysticism was not a priority. Of course, there certainly could be other reasons why the mysticism rules failed - they were certainly also confusing, not backed up by any useful game material, and trying to get useful feedback on mysticism from Greg at the time was very frustrating. But I'm pretty sure the rules guaranteeing your mystics were weak and generally doomed to being ineffective was a factor. What do you mean? I know none were ever published. The maths of the mystic rules would make it all but unplayable anyway. But writing up, say, a martial arts style cult such as a school of martial arts in the Darja Danad as having a physical discipline (a martial art) , a mental discipline (meditation), a spiritual discipline (a philosophy), and a selection of Counters (things like Reflect Attack, or Skin Like Stone) and Strikes (Perfect Precision Blow, or Cut Through Anything), doesn't seem particularly challenging. It isn't how we'd do mysticism now, but my point is it didn't seen a particularly terrible model for mysticism then, even if the rules would guarantee it as being weak to the point of pointlessness. I didn't think I'd really gone about it at length, but all I really meant there is the Mythras system fairly reasonably matches the HW conceptual framework. If you wanted rules that conceptually were based on those ideas, but that actually worked in an RQ like game system, it would be easy to do so using Mythras rules. The Meditation and Mysticism skills already match the Mental and Spiritual disciplines respectively, and add a physical ability as a requirement for advancement within your mystic order. Most Talents already correspond to various Counters, especially the various Denial(x) and Immunity (x) abilities, and some others seem like abilities that might be included in a martial art. The combat useful Enhancing Attributes or Augment Skill abilities, or the Aura (x) ability for more mental/spiritual versions, would work for Strikes. Voila, something that includes the major concepts of the HW Mysticism system, but is playable in an RQ based rules system. You could also, with a little flexibility, construct a version of Illumination (Immunity(Allied Spirits), etc) using the same rules. This isn't how I'd want to do Gloranthan mysticism now, but it would be a workable system. And notably, there is a lot of things we know a mysticism rules system should do (ie the stuff mystic heroes do in Revealed Mythologies) that no current RQ rules system does.

King of Sartar doesn’t mention a trade god for the grazers, but does mention among the vendref deities “Kanestal One‑hand, called “The Counter,” who is the loyal treasurer for his overlords.” I think of Kanestal as a sub-cult of Issaries. I don’t think Lokarnos is a well known cult among the Grazers, they are rider people not wagon (or chariot) people, and warriors not merchants. So I’m going with the merchant class in the Grazelands being a vendref activity, and worshipping Issaries.

To be honest, a large part of that was because several people involved in Hero Wars, including Greg, did not really do maths. The really bad aspects of those rules were practical, they could still somewhat work as a system conceptually. A reasonable system could be constructed on those ideas, and perhaps Mythras mysticism is, or is close to, that system. But the conceptual understanding of how Mysticism works in Gloranthan canon has significantly changed since then. Whether it will change somewhat again once we really take on the task of how it works in the East is an open question.

Don’t forget that dark elf mushroom drink the Waha cultists are so fond of.

I missed that somehow - yes, there are Joergs forest dwelling giant sloths. A different species to the ones in the jungles, I guess

The Lunars have a few intelligence agents (though not as many as some sources suggest), and probably do hatve an active policy of subverting Orlanthi when they can. But for the most part, Orlanthi who work with the Lunars don't think of themselves as betraying their nation or tribe to the Lunars. They think of themselves as loyally working for their tribe/clam to defeat rivals in other tribes/clans, and as far as they are concerned they are simply using the Lunars to achieve that. This is a frequent historical pattern of how organised empires defeat tribal societies (the English defeat of the Maori, for example). The idea of intelligence agencies is largely anachronistic. Individual agents who perform intelligence functions, however, goes back a long way. A certain degree of anachronism is something that we enjoy and of course Glorantha is built on stories as much as history, but deliberate infiltration as a wide scale organised tactic seems a bit too modern to me. But Empires messing with the minds of the barbarians? sure.

I think of the Arkat cult as usually a mystery cult, AND a sorcery cult. Mystics at the inner core, but they teach it mostly via mysterious and confusing initiatory experiences. I tend to think a bit of modern initiatory secret societies like the Masons, Rosicrucians, Fraternas Saturni, Thule Bruderschaft, Ordo Templi Orienti, etc, as inspiration, despite the anachronisms. Lots of mysterious secrets revealed only through multiple layers of initiation, lots of esoteric and confusing lore that yields magical powers, but may make sense only to the high initiate, and ultimately a focus on self transformation above all. I don't think most of them spend time infiltrating Chaos cults or anything like that. They spend their time doing weird mystic things in the hopes of transforming themselves into mystical supermen. But there are many Arkat cults, and some of them probably are more worldly focussed.

The only mention of giant sloths is of the Dirithi, the giant sloth hsunchen, who live in the jungles. I’m presuming there are no other giant sloths, but there are several extinct species, so it’s possible there are other species I personally think the vast Ernnoru forests are going to contain a range of biomes, and some of them will be suitable for giant sloths.

To be more specific, the giant sloths are in the yellow elf jungles of Pamaltela.