davecake

It is pretty much Nontraya's defining power, and the talokans are a whole menagerie in themselves: If you don't think Nontraya's demon army is special, well that is pretty much all he has. He is able to work on a 'non-volunteer crowd' mostly by whipping them into action with his horde of demons. Ernalda falling asleep is the Great Darkness myth, and so a core part of her mythology. Nontraya is a small part of that myth. Ty Kora Tek opposes the creation of undead for the most part, and while the rites of her cult involve the dead occasionally the world of life, ghosts/spirits of the dead are not undead. A Ty Kora Tek priestess involved in undead summoning would normally be apostate. (though personally I think it becomes more common as the Hero Wars really kick in)

My point is not so much that Mularik must be the baron referred to - it is more that there isn't any other Baron we know of, and it's a Western title so there isn't likely to be another one. If there is another plausible explanation I'd like to hear it - my current campaign is Tarsh based. The Baron Sanuel unit seems quite different to Mulariks men - not just a rename but changing infantry to cavalry, gaining huge amount of magic, etc. But yeah, it would be nice for some published info. I'm actually surprised you have been able to find even a whole short paragraph on so many of the others.

Not routinely, but I'm sure it happens. I'm quite sure the more morally compromised aspects of EG Lunar Intelligence, noble house Dart Warriors, etc find them a useful asset. Though I'm sure they also want to keep them away from (or very closely supervised) the core institutions of the Empire.

Who says they have to? There are numerous examples of the same entity being magically approached through multiple names, with some differences. Nontraya has command of his talokan demons, who sound like a pretty different bunch of beings than Vivamorts normal tactics. I don't get any particular hint of 'nobility' from Nontraya. He commands a horde of vicious demons. He opens the door to the Underworld, but that doesn't mean the dead are all his minions. It is part of Ty Kora Tek's role to send such back to where they belong.

I think from about 1625- 1630, Mularik is probably pretty focussed on the eventual conquest of Tarsh. And after 1630 he rules it. But I was never presuming that the Baron's Friends were his own troops from the West, but rather a magical group he had organised within Old Tarsh - it is pretty clear that Mulariks own army is a small factor compared to the presence of Mularik, a minor hero, himself. Note that there is already a unit organised by him - Baron Sanuel is a Sartar Free Army infantry unit. And if it isn't him, we need to find another Baron.

FWIW on this one (fully aware that Peter considers me one of the usual suspects here): - the idea that the gods get to decide what gets done with their rune magic after it has been granted seems to be the primary argument against vampires stealing Rune magic, and appears to have no basis in Gloranthan reality. Spell Trading exists, Atyar Consume Mind exists, etc. But not only that - even becoming an apostate might remove your ability to renew your Rune magic, but not the ability to cast it, and in many cults it appears that Spirits of Retribution exist for the purpose of removing Rune magic from apostates. And then, of course, Illumination makes it clear that it is the mind of the initiate that carries the magic, and there are no meaningful restrictions on the use of granted magic to someone who does not mentally alert Spirits of Retribution etc. It appears to be a pretty core part of Gloranthan metaphysics that once the power is granted to the cultist, the god has no active control over it after that point. In fact, vampires CAN use Rune points in RQG ("If a vampire already had Rune points from its former life, it would keep them."). - is it scary? For some of the same reasons Illuminates are scary, and Thanatar is scary. It makes an antagonists powers unknown and hard to predict and defend against. It also, like sanity in CoC or level drains in D&D, changes how the possible outcomes of a battle goes - Players are used to fights that leave them either dead or better off, and generally may not feel the latter that much, from expectations about how PC death may be handled. Rune Point drain is a mechanic that makes it very clear the encounter may leave characters alive, but permanently weakened. Players generally hate that. Chopping people up with a scimitar is really really scary, or an (MP draining admittedly) punch? I don't quite understand what you are saying Peter. And MOBs notes here are pretty clear that for that particular vampire, the scary thing isn't that he can steal your spells (he is trying to kill you quickly, not feed), but that he already has stolen spells - and that gives him the edge that will likely let him defeat very powerful PCs, as he has a big array of stolen spells to use (many pointless in combat, but including a lot of useful combat magic like Shield, Truesword, Lightning, Madness, Crack, etc. ) - is it in myth or pop culture? It certainly occurs in pop culture (the idea of magical power being transferred between magical creatures by blood drain is present in properties like Anita Blake or True Blood), in myth we have sympathetic magic as a magical link - but it hardly matters. Gloranthan vampires are both blood drinkers, and separately psychic vampires, and the idea of taking magical power is arguably inherent in the psychic vampire concept, which isn't that connected to the mythic blood drinker. Besides, Rune spells are a more or less uniquely Rune Quest concept, why would we expect the idea of vampires draining Rune magic to even exist? - Peter hasn't seen anything cool in many years of asking? Well yes, because he declares anything he doesn't like uncool. This is not a strong argument. - the Daughters of Darkness don't have the power? Well no. I do think the Daughters are vampires in most meaningful respects, but they also aren't quite the same as the vampires of Vivamort it appears. It may be a mystery of Delecti exactly how they differ. - claims its not represented in stories we have about vampires? Literally there are almost no stories about specific vampires in Glorantha, apart from the Vivamort writeup in Cults of Terror, and that writeup says "He used his demonic abilities to rip Power from the harried gods " which sounds ok to me. If you don't like the idea that the gods have limited control over Rune magic once it is granted, the worshipper must have an on ongoing magical connected to the gods, which could be used to 'rip power' from them. Either metaphysical justification works. Note that we have no myths that explain *most* vampire abilities, or anything other than second hand assumption of earth myths. Why can vampires turn into bats or wolves? Even though there are bat and wolf gods, we have no myth. Why basilisks? No myth. Why enthrallment? no myth. We have standards being applied to the spell stealing power that are applied to no other powers. You want myths? Perhaps it is related to the vampire lords of Tanisor being Nysaloran, and creating means to steal power in defiance of the gods will via means similar to that that allows Illuminates to use magic in ways their gods would hate. Or perhaps it is something to do with Nontraya being the Taker. Or it is a ritual the vampire kings learnt from ancient Vadeli grimoires (that the Vadeli never use, because it threatens their immortality). Or something awful the God Learners discovered. Whatever justification you like. There was never a published RQ3 Vivamort cult - and there was a published vampire with piles of stolen Rune magic. So, it is unclear. Personally, I am inclined to think it isn't a default power of vampires, but then, the Vivamort cult (and presumably the Nontraya cult) are known to do plenty of things that aren't intrinsic vampire powers, such as creating Basilisks. So, I'm sticking with stealing Rune magic as not a power that all vampires have, but that some vampires might have in your game. Which ones we might never have an official answer to, but don't let that stop you - we might never have an official answer (unless the Forgotten Vampire Monograph mysteriously appears).

I tend to run these sort of situations very similarly to a HeroQuest simple group contest these days. Every person has a roll of an appropriate skill, a net number of successes determines the degree of success (eg every succeeds and the group goes in quickly an silently - successes outnumber failures means the group goes slowly and cautiously). Criticals and Fumbles generate opportunities for an interesting challenge, or add/bypass obstacles - a fumble might mean one member is surprised by a guard and must try to kill them quickly and silently, a critical might give an opportunity to steal keys, or let the character overhear useful conversation. I'm generally pretty generous in these situations about Augments, as you don't want to, for example, prevent an entire party using stealth because one member is lacking in it.

I assumed the Baron in The Baron's Friends is Mularik aka Baron Sanuel. I'm not aware of any other Baron involved anywhere else close to Tarsh, and it makes sense that Mularik would organise allies from Old Tarsh prior to the invasion of Tarsh. That would imply the units high Magic would be due Mularik himself or his sorcerous assistants etc. The Old School are mounted magicians aren't they? And presumed to be Earth magicians in most discussion I've seen, including the (non-canonical) write up in In Wintertops Shadow, which has them as a group including all traditional Earth cults (and Kero Fin/ Sorana Tor traditions) opposed to the Hon-Eel cult.

Yes, a Thanatar temple with the full, functioning triple hierarchy as described in Cult of Terror etc would be vanishing rare almost everywhere. More likely most of the places it occurs it will be a tiny conspiracy, usually dedicated to one of the three single aspects of the god. It is possible that in terrible times when Chaos strode the land more openly (eg during the Bright Empire, some cities in Fonrit) such temples were established, have now fallen into a ruin, and on occasion there will be a hidden Thanatar temple complex. But apart from ancient deranged head ghosts and similar, very few would have much of a population. There are ways for Thanatar to re-establish a foothold when nearly wiped out (summoning its powerful Spirits to re-establish temples, building up the numbers with Guardians, etc) so it persists, but most places I would assume it is quite small, a secretive community of sociopaths. The spirits of the Guardians may, however, help share knowledge between different groups, giving the cult a degree of organisation beyond what would normally be expected.

My feeling is the Dragon Magic is still tied to the spirit, and the entire point of creating Heads is to stop the spirit passing on to its proper destination. That stops normal mortals from passing through to the underworld, and means they are not resurrectable - I think it makes sense that it would also stop a dragonnewt from reincarnation. And I think the dragonnewt head would still be capable of Dragon Magic. Whether or not this means that the Thanatari can force the dragonnewt to perform Dragon Magic on demand is a different story - and I'd leave it up to your game, as Jeff says Thanatar isn't a PC cult, so make it happen if you want. There is a group of undead dragonnewts in Delecti's marsh. Originally rebels from the EWF, they are dragonnewts that wearied of the cycle of life and death, and chose an alternative.

The main thing that changed between RQ2 and RQG regarding dwarves is that in RQ2 Mostali magic was assumed to be mostly Rune magic, now it is assumed to mostly be sorcery (or a variant of sorcery). But that change took place way back in the RQ3 era, so has been Gloranthan canon for nearly 30 years,

I think a Thanatari could make a head from a captured dragonnewt, and it could still cast dragon magic. And doing so would stop the dragonnewt from reincarnating until the head dies, and would be regarded as a horrific insult. But I don't think they could simply steal the dragon magic via Atyari magic. They have not awakened their dragon consciousness. The dragon knowledge would make no sense to them.

I think the small number of cavalry associated with the Sun Dome Templars in DP are kept fairly close to the phalanxes or archers (in effect, being part of the same unit), in particular to stop the phalanxes being flanked, a core issue with deploying phalanxes. The Praxian Sun County has no horses, but the mounted archery tradition etc survives largely through the many followers of Yelmalio among the Praxians (particuarly the Impala people), who are often hired as mercenaries. In Prax they are also needed as scouts and anti-cavalry defence.

I think Cradle meets the Wolf Pirates fairly shortly after it leaves Corflu, and everyone who doesn't disembark and join Harrek ends up going down into Maelstrom. Whether or not this counts as avoiding the Closing I don't know. The Closing is broken by the reappearance of the Boat Planet a few years later (an in world secret). But the Cradle may have been one of the many events leading up to that point that weakened the Closing.

Almost, but not quite there... (the idea that Malkioneran is 'an entity', rather than a way of looking at the nature of reality, is where you are going astray here - the Devil is a cosmic problem within time, not a single being). I would have said the Red Emperor and Sheng come as a pair, and the Goddess, being a goddess and not a mere earthly Emperor, is beyond either. That is a certainly one way of looking at it, though I think Kazkurtum is too Peloria specific, and too associated with The Emperor. Which is to say, Dara Happans might agree, but other cultures would not. [Abiding Book] We agree with the idea that it is the expurgation and reduction of The Abiding Book that is the error, not the book itself. In particular, the Hadmalists always said inclusion of the allegorical and moral aspects of the book was essential, while the Malkioneranists first reduced the Abiding Book to the Abiding Grimoire, and eventually removed even the structure of the book from the working grimoire just leaving the derived magic. The Sharp Abiding Book may have been one path along the way to error, but I think the Makanists were merely misguided, it was the Malkioneranists who led the God Learners along the path to true disaster (and The Devil). Impossible Landscapes, where Malkioneranism begins, is clearly an artifact of either Arkat or Nysalor (taken from an Autarchy ruin). As more magic is discovered from it, they learn many 'many new, sometimes strange, practices'. Yes, the knowledge from it is interpreted by the (nascent Malkioneranist) School of the New Order as being about understanding of the Invisible God and heroquesting, but its clearly about heroquesting from an Arkat and/or Nysaloran perspective (and certainly, we know the God Learners made use of pagan religion and mythology freely without seeming to be bound by spirits of retribution etc), and increasingly departs from Makanism. I don't have access to Hrestol's Saga (feel free to share relevant portions with me), and as far as I know it far predates the MSE and RM published sources. I do think we need to be careful about interpreting the evolution of Greg's thinking about heroquesting with the evolution of Malkioni understanding of heroquesting. I'm not that sure that, in magical terms, there was any significant difference between Nysalor and Arkat apart from moral code, and varying experience with the magic of their respective allies. Gbaji is the Deceiver, for sure. But he is a mystic concept, and beyond mere Truth or Illusion as expressed by the Runes. Gbaji can lie with Truth. I do not think orthodox Yelmic doctrine has the Gbaji nature - it is a mixture of Truth and Lies, like all major religions in Glorantha. Gbaji is mystical falseness, Gbaji is solopsism and selfishness. Gbaji is what happens when you see the world is Illusion, so you decide that nothing is true and everything is permitted, and if everything is meaningless why not do exactly what you want? Yes. Gbbaji is mystic hubris. I think of Gbaji as very much like Aleister Crowleys concept of 'the Black Brothers' - having crossed the Abyss and experienced mystic insight about the nature of reality, if you then rebel against the dissolution of ego into the all, lapsing back into ego and solipsism, you become a Black Brother, and are toxic and destructive no matter the good or evil of your intentions.

The Devil in the First Age was Gbaji. Manifesting as Nysalor. The Devil in the Second Age was Gbaji. Manifesting as Malkioneran. The Devil in the Third Age will be Gbaji. Manifesting as ? (the Red Goddess is the obvious target) I don't think the Abiding Book was false. The Abiding Book contains a bit more truth (including inherent contradictions) than the more orthodox are comfortable with (hence the expurgated Sharp Abiding Book later), but the practice of using the whole Abiding Book as a grimoire is something that happened long after its first appearance, in the early 800s. And as they begin using it as a grimoire, they begin editing and reducing it - the 753 Compilations is something like the Abiding Book for Dummies, a guide to using the book as a source of cool magic for heroquesting and pagan blasting, with the most awkward (mysterious, contradictory, focusing on deeper morality and ethics, etc) parts ignored or explained away. The later Abiding Grimoire and Unencumbered Lights of Reason take this further, and just actually remove the tricky bits entirely. It is not the Abiding Book itself that is the problem, or its use by the mainstream of the God Learners (the orthodox Hadmalists always believed that the moral instruction, etc parts of the Abiding Book was key to understanding). It was the Malkioneranists who took the book, stripped it of anything that wasn't of direct magical value, and turned it into little but the basis for a magical armory that, IMO, let the devil in. Of course, we know that the foundations of Malkioneranism come, ultimately, from their exposure to Illuminated thought, their Nysaloran artifact Impossible Landscapes leading them to techniques we would now recognise as a form of Illumination. They then began doing what Illuminates always seem to do when they gather - some might seek deeper magical liberation, but some take the new magic they have found and use it apparently without humility or conscience to loot the otherworld for personal power. The Devil is essentially Gbaji made manifest, IMO.

I have heard the Carse and Thieves World products (which of course were published as non-Gloranthan RuneQuest products by Chaosium) were run as part of the Chaosium house campaign, and have Gloranthan equivalents as Karse and Refuge. Does anyone know any details of the conversion used, eg which deities were substituted for which, which cultures for which, and so on? (I've never seen the Chaosium version of Carse)

They sacrifice books and scrolls because the burnt part goes direct to Lhankor Mhy. When you burn an animal sacrifice, you are offering the god food directly. When you burn a scroll, you are offering Lhankor Mhy reading material.

Well, that’s just one of the reasons why only a Chaotic heroquester would do it. Some Chaotic heroquesterswould consider at least one of those alternatives desirable. Messing with Wakboth isn’t for lightweights.

The Lesser Hydra have RQ stats in the old RQ3 Glorantha Bestiary. A single one is a fair danger to a clan in some circumstances - 2d6 heads, each of which can bite potentially lethal with both poison and acid, and with frequent chaotic features (though of course it might be vulnerable to a missile barrage etc). A plague of a few would be a real issue. There would have to be some explanation why the lesser hydra turn up. You could also make a plot where the hydra goes on the move - a clan would have no hope to defeat it, it is terrifying, twice the SIZ of the Crimson Bat, but a plot could be made around it approaching clan lands, with clan having to move assets and people so they don't get eaten. Or it turning up in a heroquest. Or other chaos foes somehow obtaining the help of a Lesser Hydra.

Wakboth is dead. You get nothing for worshipping him. But there are parts of him that still exist, and you can meet him on the heroplane (as the Red Goddess did), though you'd be unlikely to survive it. You won't meet a worshipper, but you might meet a Chaotic heroquester who has gained some of the Devils power from one of his scattered parts.

It depends on the Feat, but mostly I think Feats are a bit more than just a Rune spell. Some are a combination of rune spells, maybe accompanied by a runic inspiration. I hope that some rules about something like heroforming turn up when we get heroquesting rules.

Crocodiles are in the bestiary, salt water crocodiles are a bit bigger than other species, the largest reptiles alive on earth, ‘salties’ as they are known in Australia get to 4.5m long fairly regularly, and can get as big as 7m - yes, they are dangerous and terrifying, as they do consider humans to be prey, the Giant Crocodile stats don’t seem too far off for a big male. I think a fire wren is just a wren, probably with some fiery coloration, and so not really something you’d need stats for. The fire wren people are hsunchen/fiwan people with significant magic, but their totem animals aren’t anything that would be a threat. I think similarly green herons are probably just herons. Sun fish are big fish, but not very dangerous ones to humans -again it’s their associated fiwan that matter. The fish eagle you could adapt the vrok hawk? Stats for baluchitheres are in the RQ3 creatures book, I think.

I definitely think an Emperor that denies his dragon nature can still be worshipped as the Sun Dragon, to the Sun Dragon cult the Emperors dragon nature is implicit in the office. Very insightful, yes. It is both what underlies the Emperor and gives him power, and the evil the Emperor holds in check.

So essentially, Joerg, your thesis is that a magical road that enables travel to Jrustela is possible exactly three times by three different methods, but definitely no more times or by no other methods at all, even by mysterious powers capable of wiping out whole groups of God Learners?