Pentallion

It seems like Raven is the sly aspect of Trickster and Hyena is the lewd aspect. So if she joines both spirit societies, she has the disorder and illusion runes. Neither is a god, however, so I assume she would still need to pick a god to favor. Or perhaps membership in two spirit societies is enough. In all my years playing RQ, no one has really gotten into playing a Praxian before. So I've kinda glossed over that part of the game until now.

In my campaign, at the end of the world, our duck shaman looked into the spirit plane to see all the souls of the world, waiting for the End of the World so they could come back and repopulate and live their next incarnation in the next Age. At that moment he saw The All. The Invisible God. Whatever you want to call it. They were calling for the world to be remade and at the completion of the seven games sky quest, it would be. So in MY Glorantha, the opposite is true. There is no All that divides into the Many. There are the Many that join to become the All. Elmal is not Yelmalio is not etc. But together, joined as one, they become Lightfore, or Yelm. and both your way and mine can happily coexist in the same universe at the same time. For in the end, it matters not if they divide or if they join. It is the same. We are all the All and we are all unique. Just like everybody else

The next night as they made camp, the Basmoli regaled them with tales of his homeland in Prax. "So once a year the Paps High Priestess judges over the annual herd mother contest. The herd mother that wins gets a blue ribbon tied around her neck. Then they milk her and ferment the milk. It's a very strong drink. They call it Paps Blue Ribbon." The tin dwarf nodded politely but in truth was barely paying attention. The scarecrow was very interested however. "So how do you know of this lion man? The Praxians do not share their secrets with your kind. They hunt you down for stealing the tails of their herds." "Well," the lion man preened, "I infiltrated their herd." "You did what?" "I came across a very rare spell that allowed me to change shape into a bison and I snuck into their herd." The Basmoli was obviously quite pleased with himself. "But I thought you said it was a contest for herd mothers?" The Basmoli waved his hand vaguely and mumbled something unintelligible. Suddenly, the scarecrows eyes lit up. Toto barked and Dorothy exclaimed "Flaming pumpkin heads!" but the scarecrow paid them no mind and leaned close to the Basmoli. "Say, isn't that a blue ribbon you're wearing around your neck? You mean to tell me they -" The Tin Dwarf jumped up."Dorothy! Flying monkeys!" Dorothy saw the winged ones approaching. "Not monkeys, those are the Black Owl people. They are in league with Ezdene." "You'd think they'd at least wear something to cover up their bits. Nasty little buggers!" the dwarf scowled. The butt naked black owl people swooped down upon the small group. They gave as good as they got, but in the end, the Black Owl people made off with Dorothy and Toto. "Well, there goes her chance to join the Yelornans." the scarecrow muttered. "We still have the bucket to kill Ezdene with." the tin dwarf looked at the others questioningly. "Nah." "Nope. Too risky." "Yeah, you're right. Suicide mission. Stupid munchkins were probably lying anyways." And they called it a night.

Are there Tricksters to be found in the Praxian tradition? One of my players argues that it was Trickster who helped the Morokanth cheat.

A question from one of my players: Can a Praxian who worships Waha also be a Trickster? She's thinking of having a Morokanth trickster. Her argument is that the Trickster is how they cheated the humans.

I like that, its parallels feel very Arachne Solarish.

My understanding may take some explaining. consider the end of the Windstop when Orlanth was Dead. Jeff told a tale of Prax where I forget if it was Solanthus or Invictus or someone else, it really doesn't matter who to my point, but this Sun Dome Hero saved Kinope from Daga and ended the Windstop. Except, of course, that alone didn't end the Windstop. As Jeff explains, all over the area, people are fighting the I Fought, We Won war and each of them is in effect ending the Windstop. That's how the mystical energies of Glorantha work. All these heroquests come together and the effect is to end the Windstop. If I were a God Learner, I could thus wrongly assume that all these heroes did the same thing and thus are avatars of the same hero. Even though each of them has a unique individual tale (myth). I believe that this is the very mistake made by the God Learners in fact. When Yelm died, many Small Suns kept the light alive in various parts of the world. Each carrying out their own hero quest. That they share many commonalities only makes sense. Afterall, it is cold now, Yelm is gone and these are smaller lights. So they have less heat than the great Fire Spirit had. They fight similar battles - much like those who quest to stop the Windstop - because that's the nature of their quest. But they are not all avatars of Lightfore. That's the mistake the God Learners made. See, this is why the God Learners believed they could swap fertility goddesses. They believed each goddess was just a version of the same goddess. They were wrong. Each was distinct. Each therefore had unique powers. And thus the swap failed. And they didn't perceive why because they didn't perceive the individuality of each goddess. Same with Yelm, Elmal, etc. They are each unique heroquestors who filled the same role of providing light in the darkness throughout Glorantha. So of course, they seem to be the same person but of course, each is unique because each was a different individual. Each one's story is his own. Lightfore, by that reasoning, simply becomes that which is shared by each of them. Lightfore is the star that represents those who kept the light in the darkness. One might say Lightfore is home to the Little Suns. But to say all of them are Lightfore in different guises would be wrong, IMO. That would be God Learnerish and also the Lunar illusion of masks. Place a Lightfore mask over each of them, they are Lightfore. But that is Lunar illusion. Underneath the masks are Yelmalio, Elmal, etc. each unique. none Lightfore.

If a Morokanth eats meat in the forest and Greg doesn't see it, does that still make him a vegetarian?

I remembered because I always thought it was the most visually poetic thing in Glorantha.

It's in the Redwood forest. The light emitted by the Torch causes the shadows to scatter and gives the area its name Shadow's Dance. It says in the GtG pg 187 that the lights emitted by the Torch dance their way to the Vale of Flowers. That is the connection between the Torch and the Vale of Flowers.

Lutefisk

That night as Dorothy and her friends sat around the campfire. "When I get my hands on that Lollypop Guild I'll...." Dorothy squeezed her hands as if strangling someone. "It's all a big Khan." said the Jack O'Bear scarecrow. "A what?" asked the Basmoli. "A Khan. We have them in Prax all the time. The head guy, he tricks all the other tribe members into going into Dragon Pass and stealing everyone's cows. Naturally, a lot of the tribe gets killed, but this guy, he gets to be Khan. And the guy who suckers his tribe into stealing the most cows, he's the Khan of Khans. It's like a game. A big Khan game." "Ahhh," nods the Tin Dwarf in sudden understanding. "You mean like one of those Nidan pyramid schemes where whichever dwarf suckers the other dwarves into buying the most Amway products gets Diamond dwarf status and none of the other suckers make a dime. while doing all the work." "Exactly," the Jack O'Bear. scarecrow nodded, "You got Khaned Dorothy." "OH, I get it," says the Basmoli. "Like how in all my heroquests I get my butt kicked by Waha or some other god. Like, every heroquest is Basmol gets his butt kicked by this guy or Basmol gets his butt kicked by that guy. Hey, let's even let Trickster make a fool out of Basmol." "No, not like that at all." "Nope." The Jack O'Bear scarecrow leaned over to the Tin Dwarf "Say, I thought I was the one who was supposed to need a brain." Suddenly, a fell beast charged into their camp and began licking Dorothy's face. "Toto! You got away! You got away!" The Tin Dwarf brandished his axe. "I'll smite yon fell beast!" "Oh you'll do no such thing!" Dorothy admonished him. "This is my cat and allied spirit Toto. Besides, aren't you a Tin dwarf? You aren't supposed to smite anything. You make cans." "yer....cat?" the dwarf stood puzzled. He swiftly tucked the can opener he'd been wielding into his back pocket. "I'm pretty sure that's no cat." the Basmoli stated, "and I'm kind of an expert in that area." The Jack O'Bear scarecrow - "WILL YOU KNOCK IT OFF WITH THE STRIKETHROUGHS! THE READER GETS IT. I'M THE JACK O'BEAR FROM RABBIT HAT FARM STILL PRETENDING TO BE A SCARECROW!" The scarecrow (sheesh!) lays a gentle hand upon Dorothy's shoulder (you happy now?), "I visited a place called Balazar once and I'm pretty sure your little Toto is in fact, a dog." "A dog! Nonsense! We Orlanthi hate dogs. Why we even have a cat in our pantheon. Yinkin. You might have heard of him." she scratches Toto's ears, which sets his tail wagging happily. "you're not a dog are you my little Toto? No, you're my little bitty kitty, yes you are. My little bitty kitty." The scarecrow threw his hands up as if to say "wtf?" "wtf?" said the scarecrow. (tell me how to write my story!) "Well, she seems happier now in any case." observed the dwarf. Then they all bedded down for the night.

If my opponent starts thinking he can fire 10 arrows at me in a round, I will invite him outside my house whereupon I will assault him with a nerf stick repeatedly while he fires his mulitple nerf arrows at me. Sure, he can fire 10 arrows very quicky....after I've laid into him thirty times with my nerf sword. Sorry, but in real world, I hit you more than once in 12 seconds. In fact, I can lay into you with my sword three times a second!!! This is a game and the game has set limits for playability. Start tweaking that for whatever excuses and the game falls apart.

Meanwhile, the Tin dwarf, the scarecrow and the Basmoli were stunned but for entirely different reasons. Dorothy had just come traipsing out of the City of Brass with her bucket of water. The tin dwarf jumped up excitedly. "You got it! You got your water blessed!" he hesitated "You saw the Wizard?" "Oh yes," Dorothy smiled sweetly, "we went behind the curtain together. He showed me his blue -" she bent down and whispered into the dwarfs ear. The Tin dwarf gasped."Oh my! What happened then?" he asked in horror. Dorothy pulled up her skirt far enough to expose a bit of thigh - and a broad bladed dagger. "I wasn't born in Kansas you know. I told him I didn't care how blue they were, I'd cut them right off if he didn't do as I said. He blessed the water. He blessed the bucket never to spill. He even blessed my cherry red shoes so if I tap them together and say -" "There's no place like home?" the Basmoli interjected. "What? No! Why would I say something silly like that? Have you ever been to my tula? It's a pit hole. Why would I want to go back there?"Dorothy shook her head. "I tap them together three times and say -" "But aren't Vingans sworn to protect their tula?" the scarecrow asked. "My but aren't you a brainless male!" Dorothy replied. "Are you saying a woman's place is in the tula? You really want to go there with me after I just had to fight off the advances of a dirty old wizard just to get a blessing that any man could have gotten just for going on some silly little quest?" "I, uh, no, I didn't mean," the jack o'bear mumbled. "ugh, men. I suppose you're all going to insist out of some lame masculine sense of duty that you will have to come along and protect the poor, weak female. Well, seeing as some company would be nice on the journey, I'll let you come along, but don't get any ideas and remember, your chivalry is an affront to my womanhood so never EVER hold a door for me." And with that, Dorothy stomped off in a huff, leaving the three companions to stare in amazement. "What got into her?" the Basmoli asked. "That wizard must have affected her more than she'd like to admit." the scarecrow mused. "Bah!" said the Tin Dwarf,"All the women have gotten stirred up since those dumbasses elected Trump!" Then the three of them took off after Dorothy.

So Smeagol, Frodo and Sam sat there with dazed looks on their faces. "I can't believe they elected Donald Trump. I mean REALLY elected Donald Trump." Sam said in stunned disbelief. "They did it Sam." replied Frodo in a daze,"they really did it." "I can't believe you two dumb hobbitses are still sitting here in shock after three whole months and haven't moved this plot along!" snarled Smeagol. "What did you call us?" Frodo was so surprised it broke him out of his torpor. "Hobbitses. Filthy, stinking hobbitses." Smeagol sneered. "Here now," objected Sam," this is Glorantha and everyone says there are no -" "Mean, nasty hobbitses," Smeagol continued. Frodo looked at Sam. Sam looked at Frodo. Frodo looked longer at Sam. Sam looked deep into Frodo's eyes. "Naughty, bad hobbitses. Dirty, dirty little hobbitses." Smeagol noticed something happening to Frodo "Oh lookie there! What's it got in its pocketses?" "Alright!" Frodo snapped out of it and leapt to his feet "that's enough of that Smeagol. Now lead us out of here. It's time we got over Trump and moved on with our lives. Now swear by my Talking Ring that you won't betray us." "Talking ring? Is it valuable? Is it....preciousssss?" "It's a cursed ring," Sam explained. "If we get anywhere near Lord Death on a Horse I have to bite it off his finger." Sam frowns in distaste at the prospect. "Ooohh, Tasty finger! I'll bite it off. Smeagol swears he'll be good to hobbitses if Master lets him bites off his finger, yes, precioussss ring." "Then lead on Smeagol." Frodo commands and the party headed down the mountain side into the wide plains below.

Thanks, good to know. I will miss giving the Morokanth "Ooooooowwwwwnnnned" however. It made them really dislikable NPC's for my players.

No, you're missing the point David. In the current, latest and OFFICIAL edition of Chaosium RQ - RQ 3, there isn't any battle magic spell named Harmonize. It's a Divine Spell. Divine spells are much more powerful than Battle magic. Considering the power level of harmonize, it was rightfully moved to Divine Magic. Daka Fal doesn't give the divine spell Harmonize. Daka Fal shamans can give battle magic, but Harmonize ceased being a battle magic spell. When RQ 4 comes out, for all we know, Harmonize will still no longer be a battle magic spell, as it shouldn't, given its power level as a Rune Magic of Donandar. So the question still stands, which god gives Morokanth the RUNE MAGIC Harmonize spell?

Borderlands Encounter book pages 20-23. Two of the three tribe members have the spell, the third is a Storm Bull initiate. Three of the four Morokanth in the slaver section have it as well. The fourth being the least experienced of the slavers. So we have a Khan of Waha, a Runepriest of Grandfather Morokanth, a Rune Priest of Waha, an initiate of Daka Fal and an initiate of Eiritha. The spell evidently permeates their society. If it's such a common spell, why doesn't it permeate everyone's society? My thinking is, because it's obviously too powerful to be a Battle Magic spell to begin with which is why they deleted it from RQ 3 and made it a Divine Magic. Which leaves us with a problem since it is so obviously an integral spell for the Morokanth in their slaving operations and it single handedly explains how their race survives in Prax. It HAS to be a divine spell to be balanced and not usuable by everyone and it HAS to be a Morokanth divine spell, not just donandar. Or else, as was said before, it's a Morokanth innate ability, like the Jack O'Bear.

I'm pretty sure the Black Fang would not allow a troll into their cult.

For most of the existence of Runequest, Harmonize is only a divine spell, not a spirit magic spell. With the rerelease of RQ2, many for the first time in over 35 years are finding that harmonize was originally a battle magic spell. So for most RQ players in Glorantha, the Borderlands campaign lists Morocanth with TWO divine spells (Silence and Harmonize) listed under their spirit magic and only Conceal listed under Divine. So for 35 plus years, the question has been: What god gives the Morocanth Harmonize? Certainly not Donandar. Another question facing RQ 3 GMs for over three decades: If the Morocanth DO have a spirit magic Harmonize spell, does that mean it's different from the Donanadar Divine magic spell? Could it be - and it made much more sense that it was - that the Morocanth can cast a spirit magic spell called Harmonize that replicates the Jack O'Bear harmonize ability? That would be a reasonable assumption as well. In fact, given that RQ 3 GM's have TWO choices for what the unwritten Harmony spirit magic spell does, it makes more sense that the Morocanth would cast a spell that has a Jack O'Bear type Hold Person effect than it does that they cast a spell so you can line dance with the Morocanth. In MY Glorantha, for the past three decades, the Morocanth cast their harmony spell, chanting "Ooooooooooooowwwwwnnnnnnned!" and you are hit by the Jack O'jBear version of harmonize. Because RQ 3 rules as written don't HAVE a spirit magic harmonize then any GM can interpret as he sees fit. And frankly, now having the RQ 2 rules to refer to, no way in hell am I going back to that version of the spell, the Jack O'Bear version DEFINES the Morocanth slaver. NOW the question becomes: do we really want Donandar's rune magic to be everyone else's Battle Magic? Will Harmonize and Silence remain in this in-between zone where they are both Rune Magic and Battle Magic? Which one will be the rule for RQ 4? As of this day, the latest Chaosium edition of RQ is RQ 3. So officially, harmonize is a Divine Spell and the Morocanth AS THINGS STAND TODAY can't be getting their divine spells from shamans, so what cult grants so many of them harmonize? One thing is very clear: Morocanth love some sort of Harmonize spell. Note that only two of the Morocanth listed in Borderland don't have the harmonize spell, one is a Storm Bull initiate, the other is the least experienced NPC listed. The Khan, the Rune Lord, and everyone else has this spell. You will not find any group of people in anything ever published who so universally have the Harmonize spell. In Borderlands, both groups of Morocanth have this spell in spades.

Is this thread not dead yet?

State of Dead? Isn't that the name of the Donandar Skeleton Rock Band? Where the drummer whips out his femurs and they're his drum sticks and the other skeletons tap dance except that one that plays his bone flute? (All you Storm Bulls stop guffawing and I heard that snort of derision from the Lankhor Mhy in the corner.)

I love how you slipped that "The Definitive Book on the God Learners" in there. I'd pay more than I can afford for that level of kickstarter.

Guide to Glorantha was simply the most magnificent product ever produced for role playing in history. So whatever you have planned for RQ, I'm sure it will be excellent. There is no one with a higher standard of quality than you guys.

When I reread the Stormbringer series after all these years, it struck me that what Elric is doing when he uses his magic is heroquesting. And it got me thinking: what if all those Beast Lord pacts and pacts with the Elemental Lords are reinforced through heroquest? What if travelling to the other dimensions is basically heroquesting? What if, every spell in Stormbringer was in fact a heroquest? Your Melnibonean can summon Meerclaw? He knows the Meerclaw heroquest where he performs services for the Lord of Cats and in return, he gains the cat lords services at a later date. He goes on the dangerous heroquest to reenact the myth of the Melnibonean hero (we'll call him Mowgli) who aided the Lord of the Cats and thus gained his eternal friendship (or at least to call on him once or twice). What if the entire magic system were revamped to be done this way? It would be taking the Gloranthan mythological way of looking at things and applying it to the Young Kingdoms, then doing away with the other forms of magic (ie, in the Young Kingdoms, there's no battle magic, rune magic, there's just the powers you gain through heroquesting.) If a pact with the lord of the bears requires a heroquest that feels a bit like it's right out of The Jungle Book, then the Pan Tangians are dealing with Shere Khan. So that mythology makes sense to them. Note I'm using The Jungle Book, only has an example since that's an obvious heroquest of how Mowgli got his man rune. And I always think isn't that how the Melniboneans, before they became so decadent, forged their pacts with the Beast Lords? They were still innocent little Mowgli's going about the hero plane (multiverse) and making their pacts. And in some alternate universe, Mowgli's enemy was Shere Khan so of course, the Tiger of Pan Tang makes perfect mythological sense. And the archetypes are just sitting there, ready to be made. And I wonder if this were the way Stormbringer were brought up to date, this new, exciting way of approaching the Young Kingdoms magic, if that wouldn't be a good selling point to get Mr. Moorcock interested in seeing the game return to print.