Jeff

The new material is SUBSTANTIALLY different from Ian's old material that was published by Tradetalk. The underlying mythology is very different.

I suggest checking out this old essay from Greg. It is about the Dwarves, but works for all the Elder Races. Dwarf Lore All the intelligent creatures of Glorantha have secret powers unavailable to other beings of their world. These species-oriented powers are especially prominent among the Elder Races, who view each other's abilities as diabolic and utterly mysterious. For example, trolls have a sonar sense whose origins and properties are unknown to the other races. Thus trolls are able to perform certain feats which are quite beyond the understanding and power of elves, dwarfs, or humans. No normal person of any other species would try to acquire these alien powers. What sane elf would ever want to be troll-like? The dwarfs are no exception. They, the Makers, have tools beyond the understanding of other races. This is called dwarf magic. It is mysterious and diabolic in nature, intended to harm the world and make dwarfs dominant. Trolls, elves, dragonewts, and the lesser Elder Races know of these strange, secret magics, and what they can do. They have deep respect and fear of them, and they know clearly that they must ever avoid their taint. Humans, always inquisitive and never as restricted as the Elder Races, have often plundered the secrets of the Mostali and stolen many of their abilities. They have learned little of true knowledge, while ransacking the garbage can of the great dwarf Machine, but it was noticeable, and the dwarfs are now wise to the deception, and avoid all humans if they can. Many dwarf items of great magical power are quite familiar to us, who live outside of Glorantha. It is easy for us to say, "He pulls out a double-barreled flintlock and levels it at you." This will certainly instill immediate respect among the characters, even if they have no idea what damage a gun will do in the game. But is that instant recognition what a role-playing situation calls for? When I play role-playing games, one of the enjoyable parts of the experience is to role-play these inquisitive (or simply stupid) adventurers through a world which is quite new to them. I, the player, usually know much more than that wary player character stalking down that nicely swept cement road in the wilderness. He, poor old Tostig, has seen wide clean roads before and is busy spouting off his great knowledge of how this is just like the great Seshnegi roads which he saw in the far west. "There is no need for extra caution" he says confidently, "These are all long since abandoned." Fortunately for the party, no one believes Tostig (as usual) and they detect the party of dwarfs hiding beside the road, up ahead. "Impossible" proclaims Tostig. "There have been no dwarfs in this land for centuries. Their reign was too terrible, and humans, elves, and trolls united to destroy every vestige of their evil civilization." Despite his confidence, Tostig finds it useful to dismount and join his companions in a defensive position. There is no need for me to relate the abuse which the other player-characters heap upon Tostig's hard-earned knowledge. But Tostig is one to quickly reaffirm his current certainty through immediate experience. Declaims Tostig, "Well, when they were here last they were all terrible. Every one of them was in iron and never missed his target. They can sling tiny thunderstones over a half-mile in distance. Half of them are only engines, full of tiny pieces which mimic a man's innards and can take no injury or wound. They all have extra spirits. Magic potions are always being used by Mostali, and they can mix up to six in one drinking. Even though wearing iron, they make no noise, can sometimes sense your thoughts, and are known to eat flesh of any type." All this is fact, Tostig assures everyone, for he is well-read and widely traveled. This is all quite important for our defense, after all. "We should probably attack first. They never tell the truth. Don't trust a Mostali peace signal. Sometimes their sign language is completely opposite ours. It happened that way to King Amaling in Seshnela..." So what about this babble? Some of it is true, some is not. Most of it is half-true. Which is which? I know, for at the moment I am the world's authority on Mostali. Should I tell my fellow players about it now? "They probably have metal gargoyles flying overhead. They often use stone gnomes to burrow tunnels under their foes, so search underground with your spirits. Giant moles and shrews are their slaves, big enough to take a horse. Dwarfs never take prisoners and scorn ransom. Dwarfs hate all humans because people kidnapped Quicksilver, their god, long ago." To role-play Tostig, I must not reveal what is truth and what is falsehood. Tostig's knowledge is what is being played, and to do otherwise would betray the spirit of the game. Whatever the outcome of the current encounter, the other characters will have gained a certain amount of knowledge as well. When it is time for them to meet dwarfs again, later, they can draw upon their previous experience and act accordingly. "That is one of their Great Exploders! I am aiming for his head." However, Jorgard the leader has already cast a Glue spell on Tostig's crossbow, and he stands and makes the Issaries signal for peaceful greeting. The dwarf responds, and a peaceful encounter continues. With his share of the treasure traded for, Tostig, ever the bookworm, secures an ancient manuscript on Mostali and begins educating himself once more. Next time, he says, he won't be fooled. So, when the dwarf lifts his hand with some machinery in it, you should describe the tool in Gloranthan terms. It is unlikely that many have ever seen any intact Mostali equipment, and many manuscripts and stories have distorted and twisted drawings, descriptions, or facts. Don't tell the players what it is, even if they ask. Say something like, "It is about as big as a watermelon, made out of metal, and has three moving parts. If you look closely, you see a small glowing light on one side and a silver chain hanging from it. What is your statement of intent?" Thus will dwarf magic show itself: a thing of mystery and uncertainty.

They stay with Ernalda. She has a deep link with THAT goddess. Babeester Gor is a radically different archetype, sharing only Earth in common. Our new Babeester Gor initiate needs to build up that connection. Seven Mothers is different, because each cult is a subcult of the collective.

Only two moons can be seen in the sky - the Blue Moon, aka the Blue Streak, which is the source of the tides, and the Red Moon, which first appeared in the sky in 1247. Heroquesters claim to have seen other moons - a White Moon has been seen many times on the Hero Plane, with growing frequency. Some claim to have encountered the Black Moon in unknowable Limbo, but that's where the impossible can be and if you are in Limbo you are so lost, it is unlikely you will ever be found.

The breakdown of the Praxian Sun County is approximately: Yelmalio 0.35 Grain Goddess 0.32 Ernalda 0.05 Yelm 0.01 Lokarnos 0.01 Lhankor Mhy 0.01 Issaries 0.01 Chalana Arroy 0.02 Uleria 0.01 Zola Fel 0.16 Other 0.05 Yelmalio is the dominant god at each of the Sun Dome temples, in most cases with somewhere between 30 and 41% of the population. There is normally an Earth Goddess consort or consorts with about the same percentage of the population - a local Grain Goddess or Ernalda depending on the location. The rest worship a diverse group of local gods and spirits.

The Northern Zola Fel Plains have scattered clumps of whitewood trees. Further to the south are dwarf pines and flood-tolerant hardwoods. Actually I am not sure there Not really much in the form of date palms - the Zola Fel is more like the San Joaquin, Colorado, or Gila Rivers. That wood might not be all that useful for building, but it is plenty enough for fire. Certainly enough for cremation. Lodril isn't really present in Sun County, but Oakfed is.

So going back to the OP: 1. Still, I have to ask: Do Lunars present a different ethnicity and/or race from the native inhabitants of Dragon Pass? "Lunars" is a super broad category, even by these standards. Do you mean a Seven Mothers worshiper in Boldhome or are we talking about citizens of Furthest? I think in most cases they might be viewed as being different ethnic groups (remember - language, cult, and tradition drive that), but not different races. 2. Would Lunar Tarsh present as a sort of "Mestizo" ethnicity/race? No. Lunar Tarsh is a specific ethnic group. They speak New Pelorian (language), follow the Lunar religion (cult), and have a long tradition of identifying themselves as a group. 3. Do Praxians share the same race as Heortlanders? Esrolians? Grazelanders? Under the God Learner system? Yes. Under the categorisations of whatever Lhankor Mhy just wrote the most influential History of Our Times? Who knows. Maybe he divides people into the categories of Orlanthi, Lunar, Praxians, and Pure Horse People?

In our world, categorising people into races was associated with the rise of vast transoceanic empires that ruled over many disparate peoples not associated with each other through language, religion, or tradition. If that exists in Glorantha, it would like be something you might have seen in the Middle Sea Empire. The ruling elite of the Middle Sea Empire were Hrestoli Malkioni. They likely tended to see the world through the lens of class - who are the talars, horals, zzaburi, and dronars of the world? This matters when bringing new people into the empire. Are those barbarians basically warriors or are they workers? Can our talars marry the sons and daughters of their rulers? Are those Dayzatar mystics essentially zzaburi? Places like Teshnos, Safelster, Umathela, Jolar, and Kralorela may have been to a greater or lesser degree affected by this. And thus it is not odd they divided peoples into the "races" of Wareran (which likely just really means, "we are familiar with them since at least the First Age"), Kralori (our eastern dominions), and Agimori and Veldang (our southern dominions). Agimori and Veldang were obviously different groups to their Jrusteli conquerers - to start with, the Veldang are blue. And worship very different gods. And everyone else (who get called the Agimori) agreed they are different.

There's a lot in here to unpack. Before I enter this rabbit hole let's define a few terms: Race: Categorising people into groups based on shared physical or social attributes that the categorised perceives as being different from those of other groups of the same species. Members of these groups may or may not be aware of their presumed membership. Example, the various Praxian Animal Rider Tribes, the Men-and-a-Half, Wasp Riders, Green Elves, Brown Elves, Snow Trolls, trollkin, Malkioni castes, etc. Ethnic Group: is a grouping of people who identify with each other on the basis of shared attributes that distinguish them from other groups. Those attributes can include common sets of traditions, ancestry, language, history, society, culture, nation, religion, or social treatment within their residing area. Example: Colymar Tribe, Sartarites, Lunar Tarshites, Tarsh Exiles, Lunars, Orlanthi, Dara Happan, Esrolian, etc. As you can see, these are really broad labels. In the Dragon Pass area cult, language, and tradition are the main things that define an ethnic group. Which isn't surprising - cult is the root of culture after all. If a Sartarite talks to a Lunar Tarshite that person is probably going to lack the markers that identify one as a Sartarite - membership in a Lightbringer cult or its associates? Membership in one of the Sartarite tribes? If the conversation is in Tarshite (and not New Pelorian) language won't be a problem, but lack of cult or tribal ties will. But what are those markers? Well the Orlanthi tend to tattoo their group associations on their body. Hey, that woman has Colymar markings! And also their cult initiations - hey that person is marked with the Runes of Orlanth. That helps members of Orlanthi society navigate around different Orlanthi groups. What isn't a big deal? Skin color or hair color. The Orlanthi tend to be brownish skin with brown or reddish-brown hair, but there's plenty of diversity. Now wait, you might say, Bison Riders look differently from Impala Rider and from the Men-and-a-Half! Sure, but that is not the source of their group identity. The key elements of being a Bison Rider are (drumroll) - riding a bison. If you don't ride a bison, you can't be a bison rider. If you ride a bison, then we look to see if you are marked with Clan markings. Same thing with Wasp Riders, etc. So going back to the original question - would an Orlanthi recognize a Lunar based purely on physical characteristics? Nope. How about costuming? At the extremes, yes - but not in the middle. So yes, an Orlanthi might assume the person wearing the big red cloak and the breastplate featuring the Red Goddess is a Lunar, that is until they see the markings of Death and Truth and the nice iron sword that indicates that this is a Humakti (who often wear red cloaks because of blood and death) and the breastplate shows that she defeated a Seven Mothers Rune Lord in single combat. That's why Orlanthi culture has all sorts of social rituals to help sort out strangers into friends, neutrals, and enemies. Rather than attack on sight, the Orlanthi tend to ask strangers, "hey who are you? Did you kill any of my relatives?" and that kind of thing to figure out how to interact with them.

I have moved this thread to Alastor's Inn as it is not related to the Call of Cthulhu RPG itself.

There is a Humakt cult in the Provinces, about 21k in total. In the Heartlands, his cult is much smaller, less than 10k, and almost all of that in Sylila. In the Western Reaches, his cult is bigger, about 18k in total.

The God Learner taxonomy holds that "reptiles" are descended from Jaskal, the offspring of Gata and Hykim. They were beloved by the kinswomen Ernalda and Maran Gor. Ernalda coupled with Hykim to give birth to Eiritha, Mralora, Fralar, Permala, and the other ancestors of mammals. The dinosaurs who lived at the base of Kero Fin were the beloved of Maran Gor who is often called the Mother of Dinosaurs, and they also served Ernalda. But this is mythic correspondences and NOT palaeontology. The taxonomy works because it based on magical and mythic correspondences that are proven through magic and on the Hero Plane.

QUIVIN The son of Kero Fin and Lodril, the mountain god Quivin is the half-brother of Orlanth, Yinkin, and Inora, and is associated with all of those cults. He may be contacted by climbing atop the peaks of the Quivin Mountains. Quivin is associated with the Runes of Earth and Stasis. He is sometimes associated with the Cold Rune as well. He provides the special Rune spells of Mountain Leap and Snow.

It is an amphitheatre not a racing track. Derensev is noted as a school of oratory.

Derensev is outside of Whitewall. It is not a town, but just a temple. Derensev: This major temple of Lhankor Mhy is associated with Whitewall and located in the tribal lands of the Kultain, who are sworn to defend it. The sages are famed for their oratorical prowess. Most of the initiates come from beyond the Kultain lands. It is clearly visible on the final version of the Dragon Pass master map.

I've posted this before, but this is the Heortland master map. If something is not on this, then it is probably not canonical. If it is on this, it definitely is canonical.

Bullpen? There is a Bullpen Mountain, but no village or town of Bullpen. Bullpen Mountain: This mountain immediately to the south of Stormwalk Mountain rises some 2750 meters above the Choralinthor. Each night Baskelos and his magic hound pen their sky bull herds on the eastern shoulder of the mountain.

Most Sartarites also have an allegiance to the Sartar dynasty, who often intervenes in tribal and even clan affairs. They are familiar with many other peoples through trade, and are open to new ideas and things. Most people have been outside of their tribal lands many times (for religious, economic, political, or military reasons) and many have been to Boldhome, the Holy Country, the Grazelands, Prax, and even Tarsh. Many Sartarites are literate thanks to the presence of several large Lhankor Mhy temples. During the Lunar Occupation, most people had at least some non-violent interaction with people from the Lunar Empire, who also routinely intervened in clan and tribal affairs. Most Sartarites had at least a passing knowledge that the Lunars worshiped the Seven Mothers and the Red Goddess. Also cults like Issaries, Humakt, Lhankor Mhy, Chalana Arroy, and Eurmal, as well as Yelmalio, are much more important in Sartarite life than presented in Thunder Rebels. 32% of Sartarites are dedicated to gods that are not Orlanth or Ernalda.

There's a shrine to Odayla at Grizzly Peak, and minor temples to Yinkin at Wild Mountain, Wintertop Fort, and Yinkin Hill. The truth is that in Dragon Pass, you are much more likely to find Odayla's shrines inside a larger Orlanth temple than independently.

Largely because there are not that many people in Sartar who support themselves through full time hunting - farming, herding, crafting, and trade involve far more people. Orlanth Adventurous bands hunt, but that is not their primary function. So you get some specialists in ever tribe, but they have to meet in inter-tribal events to really get the magic going. So we have Great Hunts that gather at Wild Mountain, attracting folk from all around Dragon Pass.

Not particularly. Orlanth and Ernalda are the key pair and always viewed as separate entities. Below that, there are plenty of deities whose worship can be incorporated into the worship of Orlanth and Ernalda and only really get distinct identities when there are enough specialised worshipers. Odayla has the greatest individual identity in Sylila where he has some 10,000 worshipers. He's only got a handful in Sartar. Yinkin has more worshipers among the Tarsh Exiles than in all of Sartar, but that is close by and there are several important lineages that claim descent from Yinkin.

Orlanth is often associated with bears and is sometimes visually described as such. Odayla is clearly a stand-in for Orlanth in many stories and even hangs out with Yinkin.

Because he is a Cat God and not a part of Orlanth. Orlanth is friendly with cats, but is not a cat and never depicted as such. Voriof on the other hand is Orlanth Adventurous as a young shepherd.

Let's not confuse ourselves by using the title Takenegi. The first incarnation of the Red Emperor likely was around for about two centuries. The Red Emperor is now an office held by someone recognized by the leaders of the Lunar religion and who is said to be the current "Mask" of the Red Emperor. Each Red Emperor has access to a tremendous amount of magic, "and each maintains the policies of their predecessors, so that it seemed that one man ruled for centuries." This is somewhat less than Belintar. The Sun Emperor is much less than this. He's basically the head of the Yelm Imperator cult in Peloria and has access to huge amounts of magic, etc. But each of the Dara Happan emperors maintained an individual identity - hence the reason for king lists. Both are strong maybes. We know that the Only Old One was not a troll, since iron did not burn him. The White Bull is a spirit. Argrath contacted the spirit and is now in direct contact with it, like a fetch or allied spirit. I think this is the first time that has happened with the White Bull. We don't get a lot of stories that Pavis did this or that after he withdrew to his temple. So Lord Pavis is probably not on this list. Vingkot only appears in the God Time. Heort, Tessele the True, and various other Silver Age heroes might be better candidates as they are said to have aided Arkat and were summoned by Belintar. Jaldon Goldentooth is an interesting one, as he has multiple appearances. Prior to his appearance, we also had several appearances of Waha within Time. Presumably these were something like the Call Founders spell of the Waha cult. Agree on all four.

Yep. That's what a keet obviously looks like.