metcalph

From what I've read, the precursor of the modern prison (ie extended incarceration) is the Monastery - the perp take religious vows and spends the rest of his life at a monastery (which could resemlble Oz/Prison Break/Orange is the New Black/Porridge). But that's really a punishment the judges are likely to consider for the well-connected when using traditional punishments (whippings, multilations etc) would bring shame on the perp's clan.

I think the most obvious solution is that the clans replace the cults as the source of spirit magic. Every clan would have a clan magician whose job it is to teach clan members. The RQ rules are vague stating that rune cults may teach any spirit magic known to their rune masters but doesn't specify who has the job of teaching.

Mages who control the world: Zzabur. Mages who babysit the world: Theoblanc, Gaiseron, Cragspider Mages who plot the destruction or conquest of the world: Delecti, Can Shu Important Magical Organizations: Hrestoli School of Loskalm, Rokari School of Seshnela. Arkati Schools of Ralios.

The Bull is probably from the Enjoreli as an Army from Fronela invaded in the Dawn Age. The Boar might be Mraloti.

No. The basic outline is the same (Sorcerors - Sorcery), everybody else lesser magics. But some societies might have non-wizards using sorcery for various reasons. The question is what would they use that magic for. Since the RQG rules have made it clear that Socery is about the Big Spells, the number of non-sorcerors who would use sorcery for heroic or adventuring circumstances is quite small. So the question is what else they might use it for? Personal Henosis: In which a Malkioni uses sorcery to achieve some kind of mental union with the Invisible God. This might be a Joy spell among the Loskalmi (as well as a Medispection spell to ascertain if you are on the straight and narrow) . The Sedalpists could also use sorcery for this purpose while the Arkati uses pagan worship for their own henosis. Craftwork: Another possibility is to use sorcery for Big Works - like erecting a bridge, creating wards or making a ship. The non-Malkioni would organize themselves into guilds or fraternities and assign their magical workers a specific magical task to carry out. The spells will usually be cast over a period of weeks or even seasons depending on what is made. This type of sorcery would be fairly common in Malkioni civilizations. Protection: A non-Malkioni might regularly cast a certain spell to stop an certain event from happening. Most Malkioni would consider using a charm in such circumstances but sorcery can be used if the threat requires constant vigilance. For example, a Noble might regularly cast a sanity spell to break a family curse of insanity. Immortality spells would also fall within this class but most such spells require some immoral action. Crutches: A non-Malkioni afflicted with some ailment might consider using sorcery to cover a weakness. This might be strength magic for a weakling or makeup magic for an ugly person. The wealthier one is, the more likely one is likely to use tailored sorcery for their own personal circumstances (in other words, a peasant isn't going to know any sorcery but a noble is highly likely to).

Fire.

A Ralian Cult mentioned in the Guide to Glorantha. They rule Otkorion and believe Orlanth to be the supreme being.

I have my doubts about this. The Alien Combination Wheel is not to purify sorcey but to make it intelligible to his worshippers. Moreover I don't think it is the source of Lhankor's sorcery but something that his worshippers picked up from the Machine City in the Imperial Age (cf the Middle Sea Empire p39-40) as they had the philosophy of exploring combinations. I think a similar mechanism is used in Kralorela and claimed to be an invention of Godunya's.

Checking up on the sources - the magic is called Vim in Snakepipe Hollow but Prehealing in the Elder Secrets Book p22

Yup. Hence no numbers.

Prehealing. Left out of the standard Dragon Magic rules and described in the RQ3 edition of Snakepipe Hollow. Dragon Magic is also described in the Sartar Companion and the RQG Bestiary.

The easiest way to avert resurrection is to take a body part such as the head.

Except that the Guide p9 explicitly describes Lunar Magic as the fifth path of magic.

Kindly lose the aggro tone. I've had a shit of a past two weeks and I reallly don't need the additional grief from this forum. If mysticism is illumination as the current approach seems to be (back to RQ2), then there should be no battle magic version of mysticism. It's something that's only acquired after considerable experience. It's not something that you have a junior monk fresh out of the Darja Danad Monastery running around with knowledge of Kabalt. His starting magic is likely to be spirit magic and perhaps some rune magic. This is similar to the Malkioni non-sorceror adventurers - they may know a sorcery spell or two but when it comes to combat, they rely on Spirit and Rune Magics. Likewise Lunar Magic is only obtainable upon Illumination and so would be a rune-level magic. Why I think mystical effects (in practice, magics that are powered by mystical knowledge) should be a rune level effect is what I've grokked from Greg's and Rod's comments in the wake of the HW mysticism rules. It was to the effect that Mysticism was should not be about Big Cheesy Spell effects but Cosmological Transformation, something that alters you at a fundamental level. Kabalt isn't some lightning bolt spell to smite the godless but a timeless force that you can briefly make others aware of. Manifesting Kabalt within the world and making others aware of it should be a Big Spell (where Runic, Sorcerous etc is immaterial here). Okay. But what about the Beginning Mystic but who is studying Kabalt but has not achieved awareness of it? Wouldn't it suck if the rune-level magic was only available if he had awaerness of Kabalt whereas the starting initiate of Orlanth can cast rune spells. Yes, it would suck. The way out of that hole is to look at the spiritual and magical exercises the mystics use to attain awareness of Kabalt and weaponize them. For example, let's say the monastery in describing Kabalt describes it as being struck by lightning. Their monks subject themselves to various electrical disturbances so that they may know Kabalt. We could give the monks various lighting spells (which they used to cast at each other) and make it useful against their enemies. This magic does not proceed from their mystical insight but they use it as a magical tool to aid thei aquisition of mystical insight. That I think is a more productive way of looking at mystical cults than attempting to ground everything magic on their mystical experience. The canon explicitly states that My approach - that so-called mystical magic is really the other three forms of magic powered using mystical insight - is in line with this. I doubt there is a useful mysticism that provides magic in and of itself. If you define that any magic provided by a mystical institution as mystical magic then there's plenty of Eastern isles mystics that might agree with you but ruleswise, mysticism shouldn't be providing magic. A gift is hardly an austerity by any definition. And a broken geas that results only in temporary loss of power is I think a rather cheap geas. Since the Yelmalions and the Humakti already have geases, I'm not really seeing the distinctiveness.

I don't have the Mythras rules. You say it's great. I'm asking you why it is great. Your response of in effect telling me to buy the rules isn't helpful. What's the Illumination Skill? Is it part of Mythras? How does it work? The only hearsay I have about Mythras is you telling me how great it is. When I ask for details.your response re not very informative. If the sum of your response is to shill for the Design Mechanism to buy a set of rules that I don't have then I have to wonder whether Mythras is so great as you say it is. Aura effect? I'm not really seeing anything for saying why Mysticism should have its own form of magic. Okay, I'll bite. What's the current approach and why do you think it is inferior to the Mythras rules in modelling the mystics of Revealed Mythology. And please don't tell me to buy the Mythras rules and make smart remarks on me relying on Hearsay.

I don't think there are any other magic systems other than the ones enumerated in the Guide. Illumination is a state of mind/being and wouldn't be used as a direct source of magic (it could be used to manipulate magics that ordinary Gloranthans can not). I really don't see the need for additional mysticism rules for the Eastern Isles given their magical effects can be described conventionally.

Oh! Game Balance! Saying that mysticism sucked because the mystic PCs were far weaker than other PCs is far more informative than saying mysticism sucked because Greg didn't do maths. There's a meditation skill in RQG already. What does the Mythras skill do that this cannot? As for a mysticism skill, the most obvious answer would be the old RQ total number of Nysaloran Riddles known. Here's where I have a problem. You seem to be describing mystical magic as being Big Cheesy Spell Effects but this could be amply done with conventional magics in RQG. Enhancing Attributes could be done using a Strength Spell (or similar), Skill Enhancements with an Ironhand or even more the more exotic pathways, there's Runic Inspirations. So rather than invent a brand new spanking magical system, something which the Guide suggests doesn't exist - I would reserve mysticism for the insights that allow them to do some rune level/hero level magics and describe those fancy magics using the conventional magic we know and love. For Darja Danad, the mysticism would be Kabalt. They would know rune magics that allow them to invoke Kabalt in various circumstances and the strength of these spells is dependent on their knowledge of Kabalt (ie equivalent to number of Nysaloran Riddles known). I'm not familiar with what you are referring to here. No current RQ rules system describes what ordinary Heroes do either so pointing out that it doesn't describe mystical heroes doesn't seem that noteworthy.

The local name for Lokarnos would be Kanestal One-Hand

Hardly any math is involved in the HW Mysticism rules. It's not the reason it was poor. How? Please could you give an example of say a mystical cult using HW mystical concepts. You keep saying Mythras is the answer but you don't give any details.

IMO when practiced by a human, Dragon Magic would look more conventional in terms of mechanics (Rune Magic primarily but other types are plausible). A human studying Dragon Magic would still be engaging in mysticism because the experiences he achieves would be mind-altering at the very least. Lunar Magic would be another form a mystical magic but I have no knowledge of how it would be handled within RQG.

Stylistically Teshnos will have a lot in common with Seshnela as it was part of the Middle Sea Empire. Hence I assume the Kingdom of Eest to be the equivalent of the Indo-Greeks of Bactria. Teshnos lost half its gods from, I believe, the Goddess Switch. I think that after the departure of Avlor, there was a God Learneresque faith in charge. This was smashed to pieces by Sheng Seleris and the current fiery focus put in place. The post god-learners survive as groups of philosophers like the Charvaka. The Celestial Empire also brings in some Dara Happan elements. The Guide retains the old description of how Teshnos is run (the Vessel of Light advised by Five High Priests) but also puts in a new scheme. Is the Vessel of Light the High Priest King of Teshnos or the meditating mystic (Guide p428)? Is Garusharp the Priest General of Teshnos or merely the Prince of Wokistan? Does the scheme described on the frieze represent the power structure across the whole of Teshnos or merely that of central Teshnos. The Nagas are mentioned as being in Pamaltela (Guide p702) so they may have arrived with the Zaranistangi. It's possible from the very name of the kingdom that they were involved in the Dawn Age Kingdom of Iznagril.

Another example: WHITE SUN LORDS Founded by Karvanyar who had become incrasingly irritated by the tiresome taboos and obscure restrictions that the Dara Happan Priesthood laboured under. Using their illumination they could cast any fire or light rune magic that they had studied. The white sun cults were hugely popular among the masses who saw it as their chance to spiritual prosperity. Although hugely successful against the Dragons, the White Sun Lords were never liked by the nobility and the priesthood and were eventually whittled down due to assassinations, treachery, being sent to seek allies from Dorastor etc.

An examples of what I think Gloranthan "mystical cults' would look like: SUNSTOP SCHOOL Supposedly based on the teachings that were revealed to Yanoor during the Sunstop. Hwoever many schools claim such inspiration and the first unambiguous mention of the Sunstop School is from a court case in the New Dragon Empire which dismisses its magics as being "cheap cantrips scrounged from Vormaini Pirates". According to the school, Yanoor agonised over the disparity between actions performed within Time, which have a beginning, a middle and an end, and actions performed within Eternity, which are always happening. Only in the Sunstop, did Yanoor understand how they could be reconciled. The adherents mediate upon their actions and seek to perform them timelessly. Once successful in a Timeless Action, they draw closer to illumination. The school has no magic other than Timeless Actions. They do not prohibit the learning of magic from foreign sources, but consider it a distraction. Timeless actions are similar to the Ki skills from the Land of Ninja but generally require Rune Points to activate.

Teshnos is amply depicted in the Guide. Elephants and Wavy Swords are things that stand out as being distinctively Teshnan. I'm not seeing the problem?

Because they tried it with Hero Wars and the rules were somewhat shit. IMO there's no such thing as a mystical magic. You can use magic to strengthen your soul, like say heat stone on a hot rock and then holding it for several hours and that would be considered mystical. But the source of the magic (be it spell, spirit magic or feat) is still worldly. If you want exotic magic (ie magic outside the experence of a central Genertelan) then there's plenty of scope in the basic RQG rules for that. Rune Magic without the Gods, Self Worship , Pyschic surgery to confer Shamanic Gifts etc etc. That may be considered by the central Genertelan (and even by some of the residents) to be mysticism but the God Learners can demonstrate that all the magic is ultimately worldly in origin. The Illumination rules are provided in the HQG rulebook.