Darius West

The Tribal Moot may well take longer than a week, depending on how large and important the clan is. Depending on how frequent or infrequent they are there may be a lot of backlog of business to attend to. Every Clan Chief will show up with an entourage and they will all need to be housed and fed. The Tribal King's hospitality will be on display as a measure of their right to rule. Much can go wrong. Much depends on dinner. Suggestions: (1) Pretty much every clan will have an in-tribe feud, as feuds outside the tribe can lead to tribal wars, whereas if they are conducted within the tribe the conflict is legally limited. On the other hand, if the tribe needs unity, there may be moves afoot to try to get feuding clans within the tribe to reconcile for major projects ahead. Most clans will have one enemy, but there may be one clan who has many enemies. The tribal king would be leading the reconciliation process and likely funding it too. (2) The marriage market. Marrying within one's clan is dangerously close to incest and ogres, so a tribal moot is the very best time to find a mate. This means music and mixed dancing, and fraternization opportunities. This will require a lot of attention. Tempers may flare as romantic rivalries emerge. (3) Major market opportunities. Keeping delegates and their entourages fed and housed is a major logistical issue, and there is inevitably a major market at clan moots as a result. Prices will be high, and definitely a seller's market. Inevitably there will be a fair as well, and quite possibly entertainers including even puppeteer troupes. (4) Espionage. All sorts of enemies will be keeping an eye on developments and hoping to sabotage anything that might hinder them. This can be as big as major arson, or as small as a "poison word in the ear". (5) Trade Agreements. While much of this is already decided, a Tribal Moot can be a time to renegotiate trade. Clans who have had bad years may be seeking to sell trade goods for cattle. Clans who have had bumper years may be eager to sell off cattle they will have a hard time pasturing. New goods developed in some clan may be seeking a market. Clan Treasures may even exchange hands. (6) Inter-Clan legal cases. There will be a backlog of grievances. X clan owes Y temple Z sacrifices and won't pay up. Someone moved the crucial marker stones than mark clan boundaries. X wants to divorce Y but Y won't redeem her dowry. X clan sold Y clan diseased cattle. X did a bad thing and is now outlawed from his clan but went to work for another clan within the tribe, and his home tribe think he should be outlawed completely. These legal issues are primarily the Tribal King's problem and he must present Justice, and there will be Lawspeakers and the parties presenting the cases. (7) Shifting alliances and factions. There will be a lot of negotiation going on behind the scenes. Each Clan Chief will be going to the Tribal Moot with an agenda and will want certain outcomes, and will seek to meet other delegates in private. Of course they cannot as they will be stuck in a Mead Hall all day, so they will need to deputize responsibilities to various sub-delegates in their party. Enter the player characters. Most clans will see nothing wrong with undermining the King's authority, as doing so weakens the lead clan's authority, and makes them less likely to be able to maintain the Kingship for more than one reign. Meetings meetings and more meetings. (8) Security issues. Quite apart from espionage, a Tribal Moot is a time when may clan chiefs are in the same place at the same time. This is a good time for a major enemy sneak attack. All the guards for the hosting tribe and the visiting bodyguards will be on high alert; more jumpy and suspicious than usual, even as most people are having fun. (9) Inter-Tribal business. Tribal Moots are a perfect time for representatives from other Tribes to send delegates to discuss issues that other Tribes have with the Tribe in question. Smaller points above discussed not on an inter-clan level but on an inter-tribal level. It's a big deal. (10) Royal Business. There may be a delegate from the Royal House of Sartar present who has a national agenda they want to press. (11) Cult business. The cults have a lot of influence and they often have their own agenda that may not even be in line with their own Clan Chief's. The various Godi will be doing business behind the scenes, and may even allow certain cult members to conduct private meetings in their temple. This is useful as there aren't so many places where private meetings can take place. Warrior cults will jockey for position within the tribe. Initiates will jockey for priority priesthood. Priests will jockey for High Priesthood. (12) While everyone is supposed to be having a good time, the air is always charged with emotion as there is a lot at stake, and things can boil over quickly. Nobody wants to start a fresh feud, nobody wants to be sent home in disgrace, nobody wants a brawl, but shit happens. It is the tribal king's responsibility to keep the peace, and by proxy his weapon thanes and other guards, and the king wishes to be seen as being just, but law suits mean winners and losers.

Yeah, I did a bit of a spit-take on that too at the time. Nothing is set in stone but the statement is that all of Androgeus' children are heroes, and not the nice sort, and they include "Goldtooth" and "Twisted Horse" who may well be Sheng Seleris. Sadly I cannot remember where I found the info it is so long ago. If you dig around it is likely to turn up, and I'm sorry I can't be more help. Glorantha Wiki mentions it a little.

I am in complete agreement with Bill. Ransoms are generally money put aside for the purpose of getting yourself out of trouble well beforehand, and when you say "My ransom is 500L", your enemy has the option of saying "not enough" and killing you, or giving you a bad cut and seeing if you raise your price. Once a captor accepts a ransom it should be treated as a species of an "oath before the gods". Ransoms are generally handled by cult authorities also, and they will generally try not to disgrace their deity. In the case of disgraceful deities like trickster, they are generally not allowed to be part of the negotiations, as ransom is a matter of honor, and people without honor need not apply. When I GM I generally have 3 groups who handle ransom broking in Prax. Humakti, Chalana Arroys, and the Morokanth. Humakti because they are honorable and can lay oaths of parole on their captives. Chalana Arroys because nobody will give them grief for fear of being tossed from their cult. Morokanth because they are good at keeping prisoners and have the awful threat of turning people into herd-men. The Morokanths are definitely the worst, but they get no money for a dead captives, and are very good at ambushing those who escape. Most ransoming takes place on neutral ground, and generally New Pavis sees ransoms paid weekly. Pimper's Block is also a popular site for ransom exchanges as those who fail to get their ransom paid can then be sold as slaves, so the ransomer will get paid regardless.

Off the top of my head... How about Talor the Laughing Warrior? Son of Arkat (Humaktson?). His dad became a god within time. Then there is Jaldon Toothmaker, who is one of the many children of Androgeous, who is at least a demi-god. Pavis became a god, but he definitely had a family, not that they were particularly famous.

I think we are largely in agreement. 🙂 The only thing I can think to add is that maybe the colour of the wings is different? White/Grey for Air Rune. Yellow/Gold/Brown/Orange for Fire Rune? I bet that rule doesn't work either.

In truth I though that wings were the purview of Solar Pantheon linked fliers more than Storm Pantheon linked fliers. But then neither sylphs nor salamanders have wings. I think there is likely always some very specific mythological back-story as to why some creatures have wings and other fliers do not. We know how Hippogriff became Horse for example.

Let me explain in more detail how the corrupt system works... (1) Chalana Arroy provides free healing to any who ask for it. (2) Grateful people provide donations to Chalana Arroy temples for the services they provide. (3) Those donations go straight to temple coffers. The free healing cannot be linked to the donation or it would objectively become a payment system, and Chalana Arroy doesn't take payment for her healing. Thus indeed the Initiate might get paid 10%, but 10% of "free" is nothing at all. Thus the High Priestess might receive a 5000L donation, but that is entirely for the services of the temple as a whole, not for the services of any particular individual serving within the temple. The temple is a collective community, and the fact that the High Priestess is wearing silks while the rank and file wear rough homespun wool, and she dines on quail and Pelorian wine while the rank and file dine on boiled turnip mash is simply a mark of the renunciate status of the rank and file and the esteem in which they hold their high priestess. Nothing corrupt going on here... No institutional slavery... All perfectly voluntary.

I won't argue the point as I think the info available is sketchy at best. I personally like to think that Belintar is actually the only priest of the god Time aka Kajaboor as transformed by Aracne Solara. I also like to think he came about his initiation in a very unlikely way.

LOL, that assumes that the temple doesn't claim the funds on their behalf "for the upkeep of the priestess, and charitable causes they support". Chalana Arroys don't fight using weapons, they fight using proxies, and money is a good proxy. Of course YGMV, but bitter, corrupt, money grubbing healers are more fun and funny imo. There is a lot of bad behavior not specifically covered in the oaths that healers swear.

I like the terms "meldekery", and "meldeking", as well as "arkatry", "Lhanking", and "Chalanatry" as suspect but acceptable in-pantheon practices of sorcery. I could imagine the Lhankor Mhytes calling their practices "philosophizing", or even "sophistry" for sorcerous illusions, while the Chalana Arroys might call their sorcery use "Western Medicine". Obviously the Invisible Orlanthi would not call themselves meldeks, and I am inclined to believe they would call their sorcery something along the lines of "Zzabury" if they are using slang, and "reasoned wonders" or "logical miracles" in a more formal sense. When other sects of the Invisible God are involved, it becomes variously "Rokarlotry", or "a-hresting", or even "Snodalism". Of course the general abuse term of "Krjalking" probably applies to any sorcery associated with chaos, including Lunar Sorcery.

It has been said elsewhere that Belintar bears a great similarity to Ephraim Waite from "The Thing at the Doorstep", in that he is (LOL spoiler alert) a body-hopping sorcerer rather than a real god. Of course with enough magical sacrifice and a few useful trinkets, even an ogre can become a deity... Looking at you, Moonson. It is also pretty likely that when Jar-Eel assassinated Belintar that he was consigned to a Lunar Hell, which is why he didn't return from the underworld. Of course... ...The rather under-veiled suggestion is that after the reign of Argrath and the fall of the Moon that Belintar manages to return and to found the Harshax dynasty, ruling over a barbaric and largely illiterate people, but helping to re-civilize Glorantha, if in a totalitarian fashion.

Arguably, given the strictures of the cult and the implied requirement that Chalana Arroys heal for free, the cult is already too close to slavery. What are their pay and conditions like? Bronze Age at best, Stone Age at worst. The cult claims that healing is a calling, not a profession, but isn't that what all exploitative employers tell their members? Remember also that Chalana Arroys are associated with the Cult of Storm Bull, which is a universal cult among the Praxians. As such, I have always GMed the Chalana Arroys as being largely sacred and external to tribal conflicts. Their green sash is a universally respected symbol of complete neutrality, and any slave who is able to earn a green sash is automatically freed. Of course wearing a green sash to which one is not entitled is a similarly extreme taboo that deserves a deeply unpleasant public spectacle of a death for the amusement of the offended Praxian clan.

I believe that the SIZ stat is long overdue for a rules rationalization. I have also spoken to Chaosium members who have run the numbers for Call of C'thulhu (where you are most likely to meet a SIZ 100+ creature) and they too have never felt the numbers were entirely satisfactory. I believe that if some clever biologist wants to tackle the problem, they could relieve many people of this misery.

I have heard religious scholars of all the major faiths also make the exact opposite argument, that their religions are in fact completely logically consistent, and based on that you know them to be true. I am inclined more to your position however Ali. I would also point out that there are no major religious texts that haven't been tampered with during their histories to insure that their more glaring plot holes were removed. Either that or some major explanatory stories were introduced to cover the errors... despite the fact that the errors tended to be about as effective as covering one's nakedness with a kleenex, and raise far more questions that they answer. I want a form of mysticism that can be used to make a workable player character in RQG. I want mysticism that can stand in contrast to the other RQG magic systems, and which can integrate with the listed cultures in unique and interesting ways. My suggestions were to suggest a list of powers that could be used to make that possible. I am familiar with real world mystics of course, but that is not what I was talking about. Mysticism is described as a 4th form of magic, distinct from but not necessarily more powerful than the others in Glorantha. Thirdly, and point of fact, Carmelite nuns likely to be sent on overseas deployment often take womens' self defense training, which is a martial art, and I know this because I have a friend who used to train them. Also apparently you are not aware of Pongyi thaing aka Bando thaing, which was developed by the monk Upali in Burma. While his martial art is now gone, it definitely existed.

That very much depends on the faith in question. But yes, pretty much every heresy starts as a difference of opinion over plot holes, as you suggest.

The moral objection is quite a separate issue to my mind I assure you. Please don't be confused about my position on that point. What I don't see in any Nysalor cult write-up is any mention of meditation. Instead we have riddles and a chance of awakening at sacred time. That isn't mysticism. Mysticism should be definitely about meditation techniques, austerities (if that is part of the mystical tradition in question), martial arts (ditto) and mystical feats. Yes, philosophy and revelatory wisdom are also important, but on their own they should not constitute a mystical tradition, or all Lhankor Mhyites would be mystics, and they are not, they are more likely to be sorcerers.

I have no problem with characters interacting the the celebs of the Hero Wars, as that should happen, but killing Harrek seems a bit ridiculous. Also Stop Resurrection will not stop divine intervention, so Harrek has no problems as basically the polar bear god is his slave and he has a functionally infinite POW to make the divine intervention roll with.

Well said and I agree. Mysticism needs to be treated as its own distinct magic system which is integrated with the other three but distinct from them. There is discussion that mysticism will be related to the infinity rune, and that seems a good and necessary thing, as how better to interact with cosmic one-ness? It is pretty clear that the meditation skill needs to play a major part in how "mystic feats"(mystic magical effects), are performed. As to what these feats should be, well, at lower levels they should start with the ability to ignore various forms of discomfort such as lack of sustenance, extreme temperature, exhaustion and sources of physical damage. This will likely also apply to magic cast at the mystic, as the mystic is able to ignore it or see it for the distraction it is, and undo it. Now typically mystics have a number of means of travel. They will start with basic exercises that make their bodies light, allowing them superior stealth, then move to levitation, then telekinesis, then to flight via cloud trapeze (a la Journey to the West), and then to teleportation and even bi-location. There also needs to be provision for martial arts, which will mainly be relatively low on the mysticism scale. Upper level mysticism will include the ability to enter the various mystical realms with comparative ease. Much of mysticism will also be about perfecting one's philosophical understanding of the infinite union that is being sought, as that understanding becomes the lens through which mysticism is performed. I would also argue that mystics would be more interesting if they needed threshold experiences where they encounter creatures that personify their inner demons and philosophical problems in a tangible if mythical form that they needed to overcome in some fashion to progress. I would also argue that mystics likely have some ability with telepathy, and this allows them to calm wild beasts by sending them calm thoughts and so forth. Now every culture on Glorantha will have some overlap with the others. For example, Dayzatar is unequivocally a mystical cult that is tied to the solar pantheon. The Larnstings are an Orlanthi mystical order tied to the Mobility rune, and of which the original King Sartar was a member. It is possible that the Old Temple of the Wind also has Storm Rune mystics. I would also argue that Saint Xemela who healed an entire city at the cost of her own life, a feat that the local sorcery could not accomplish, was a mystic of the West. Obviously the Lunars have a number of cults that have taken the basics of Nysalorism, and mixed in Kralori mysticism gleaned from the Red Headed Caravan of Pent, and created a number of quasi theist but also quasi mystical cults in the Lunar Empire. The Taraltarans seem to be a more mystical less theistic form of this, with a scimitar based martial art to boot. Now dragonewts are something else again, as they are born into an extremely advanced mystical training program and are the only race on Glorantha that doesn't die, but instantly reincarnates. They are advancing towards becoming dragons, and have access to dragon powers, but using them retards their progress. The living dragonewts are also all failures who have been at that path for hundreds if not thousands of years, when during the EWF multiple humans managed to complete it, while some dragonewts still don't understand the concept of eating food. Draconic reincarnation is likely the product of a true dragon's mysticism protecting their progeny.

Well Patanjali is pretty good source material for some parts of mysticism, and it certainly has solid info and a broad cultural reach, influencing Indonesia and Southeast Asia, as well as India, so that's a very good choice. On the other hand, the system it describes has precious little in common with Nysalorism, surely you must see that? Nysalor's tradition is essentially a bad parody of Zen; it has no explicit meditative tradition, no transcendent feats, just a series of koans that don't lead to a true Samadhi, but to a form of religious parasitism as the outcome.

It isn't about agreeing or disagreeing, it is about the treatment of the available information not being treated consistently. In short, there is plenty of evidence that Nysalor worship is dramatically different in its present form to the information we have on mystics from Kralorela and the East Isles, but we are in danger of getting a magic system for mysticism which is unable to reconcile this fact.

The aim is to keep the story internally consistent as an act of world building. It is a very good way to avoid plot holes.

Actually, moral correctness is very important in mysticism. If something is morally correct it is much harder to refute and refutation is the core of Gloranthan mysticism we are privy to.

I think you can sit a duck on a pony without much issue. Ducks can also likely ride bolo lizards, impalas, and ostriches, as they are of similar height to the pygmies. As to chariots, well, there is no reason why a duck on an elevated platform can't potentially manage a chariot pulled by normal horses. As to water chariots... why not water horses? Or admit you really want ducks on jet-skis and invent a reason for there to be jet-skis. By and large you don't want to have carnivorous animals as mounts, as they will eat all your livestock and leave you impoverished.

Consider Sorcery. In RQ3 you could bring items to life with the Create Familiar spell, as famously demonstrated in "Strangers in Prax". Of course that might be a bit too familiar. The story is based on the myth of Pygmalion and Galatea, and in that myth it was Aphrodite who breathed life into Galatea, so Uleria would be the go-to culprit.

Heyyy... Don't say that... Ralzakark is every bit as much a son of the Red Goddess as any other emperor.